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Offlinesaintphotios
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Registered: 02/23/12 Happy 12th Shroomiversary!
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salt water sterilization?
    #15932258 - 03/11/12 06:16 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So I'm sure there's a good reason not to, or else everyone would be doing it instead of shelling out for a PC. But I couldn't find where anyone else has asked, sooo....

If the point of PC sterilization is that pressure raises the boiling point of water, why can't I follow the pf tek except with salt water. If there's a way to calculate the amount needed, couldn't you just add salt to raise the boiling temp?

I ask because I'm hearing a lot of you say sterilizing BRF cakes without a PC doesn't actually sterilize it, and there will be a higher contam risk (which for someone who simply can't afford a PC at the moment, this is a bit discouraging). So yeah -- why not salt water?


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Invisibleoysterizer
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 183
Re: salt water sterilization? [Re: saintphotios]
    #15932302 - 03/11/12 07:16 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Way back in the day before i bought a pc i tried this method, with little success.  I added salt
and clamped a lid on a pot, and let her go full blast for 2.5 hours. Out of the dozen jars only a couple showed anything but bacteria after inoculation.  The saltwater is hell on the metal jar lids, they rust up so fast, it wasnt worth it. You may have more luck with tyndallization.

http://www.shroomery.org/11235/Tyndallization

Save up for a pc, i wasted a lot of time and material before i bought one.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: salt water sterilization? [Re: oysterizer] * 1
    #15932377 - 03/11/12 08:13 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the point of pressure sterilisation is yes to raise the temperature higher which kills bacterial endospores that survive steam sterilisation temps. this is when using grains usually

]
however with the pf tek, brown rice flour only needs steam sterilisation. saying that this is a poor and unsuccessfull method is just flat out wrong.

Some people dont get success with it, buit it doesnt mean its not viable, with a high success rate.

used it with the cheapest of materials, and i got a neer 100% success rate.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Invisibleoysterizer
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Re: salt water sterilization? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #15932724 - 03/11/12 10:41 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
the point of pressure sterilisation is yes to raise the temperature higher which kills bacterial endospores that survive steam sterilisation temps. this is when using grains usually

]
however with the pf tek, brown rice flour only needs steam sterilisation. saying that this is a poor and unsuccessfull method is just flat out wrong.

Some people dont get success with it, buit it doesnt mean its not viable, with a high success rate.

used it with the cheapest of materials, and i got a neer 100% success rate.




Just sharing my experience with salt water. I spent less on the cheap pressure cooker than i did on all the spores, brf, vermiculite, electricity, and time invested(mostly wasted) before i bought a pc. Not to say its not an option, just not one i like.

Thats great you had success. How much salt and how long, so saintphotios can try it.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: salt water sterilization? [Re: saintphotios]
    #15933775 - 03/11/12 03:31 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

What you're forgetting to realize is that the steam from salt water is distilled water, therefore won't be above 100C/212F, even if the water itself is slightly higher.  However, you'd have to use so much salt to get an appreciable increase in temperature that it would corrode whatever pot you were using to boil, not to mention the cost of the salt itself.

Anyone who says steam sterilization without pressure isn't enough is flat-out wrong.  It's the method we use on our mushroom farm for thousands of pounds of substrate per week with 100% success.  If someone is failing with steam sterilization, they're not doing it right.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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