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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 68,233
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Just tell them that you don't know the sender and refuse to accept it.
Also, just signing for the package isn't admitting that you know what is in it. They would still have to prove that to convict you. If you sign for it and keep it for a period of time, however, the assumption is that you've opened the mail and identified the contents...
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Anonymous #17
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16827871 - 09/11/12 08:38 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok cool thanks!
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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I was told by someone who worked in the post office and had been on a number of those investigations that the search warrant depends on the person signing for the package. If they have nothing else to go on then the search warrant executes when they sign for it. As has been said, it does not prove you knew what was in the package. But, unless it was a mistaken address, you did want it and have other illegal things in your house, possibly stuff you forgot about. Even if you dispute having knowledge of the package, they can still get you for what is in your house if they enter it and if its the same as in the package, your defense is just about shot.
Your best bet is to only get packages which you do not have to sign for. Then, when and if they ask for a sig, decline to sign. It might have been aunt mary's gift but if you are not expecting it it may be nothing good. Some companies will only send with sig required so you may have to do some searching. But if its your buddy sending you some goodies, insist on no sig.
Most often they will simply intercept and send a love letter which you can ignore. But you may be put on a list for further watching. With greater and greater automation, its child's play to have the mail sorters look for flagged addresses in sender and recipient. They already look for fake return addies and can flag a box that way. Have your sender use a genuine return addy but not his own.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Stonehenge]
#16828333 - 09/11/12 10:51 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Whenever I send anything, I use the destination address as the return address. That way it can only be returned to the destination.
Edit: not that I ever send anything illegal. I deeply respect our system of jurisprudence and so would never do that.
/twitch
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (09/11/12 10:54 AM)
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Anonymous #17
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
#16828450 - 09/11/12 11:20 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea, he's requiring no sig and he used his legit return addy... cool thanks fellas!
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
#16829795 - 09/11/12 03:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Whenever I send anything, I use the destination address as the return address. That way it can only be returned to the destination.
That is legal and you can do that. However, it calls attention to the fact that there is no real return address. If its something you don't want to come back, put a legit return addy but not your own. The phone book is full of them. Or the city directory.
The postal employees have less than a second to deal with each piece of mail. They have conveyor belts running non stop. Sorters can read addresses fast unless they are illegible so then an employee has to deal with it. You don't want that. They can quickly verify if the return is a legit addy and if its in the same zip as where it was dropped.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Stonehenge]
#16829816 - 09/11/12 03:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I get legitimate commercial mail from companies with the return and to address the same all the time. And it's always machine printed exactly because I want the automated system to handle it without anyone looking.
I suppose I could use a fake valid return address, but I've never had a problem so far. I send legitimate mail the same way.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Shroom_i
Gatherer




Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 868
Loc: Zone Six (6)
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
#16832384 - 09/11/12 11:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've been charged with arson in the third.
Buddy crashed his car, I pulled him out of the ditch, on a backroad, and dragged his totalled car to a pulloff, out of the road.
He decided to set it on fire, and I bailed.
Cops came knocking, took me in for questioning, and after they had his confession said something to the effect of, youre fiance's in the front room, what if we start questioning her, I wonder if she saw anything.
Not wanting her to get dragged into it, I fell for the bs, and said I did the whole thing solo.
So, they had my buddies confession, and then pressured me into one that I had to "remember" details to several times until that was how it happened.
Wtf man... got fucked.
I'm in NJ, and worrying...
-------------------- Prisoner#1 said: [quote]destructo_low said: Prisoner's posts by percentage. Smart and witty - 9.9999922409044% Kind and caring - 0.0000077590956% [/quote] worthy of a facepalm - 90%[/quote]
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 68,233
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Shroom_i]
#16833219 - 09/12/12 05:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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You confessed to a felony because you were trying to avoid having your fiancee' questioned?
That is incredible...and by that, I mean that it is completely not a credible story. I don't believe you, and I can tell you that a judge and/or jury won't believe you either if you tell that story. Unless there's something more to it, your confession is going to stand.
If your story is true, then you're either incredibly foolish or hiding something. Were you on something when you were questioned? Is there something in particular that made preventing her questioning so important? There's stuff here that you're not saying, and a jury is going to see that instantly.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Thadeous
On the path


Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16833421 - 09/12/12 07:11 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've a quick question for you about when a car stop starts and ends.
Got pulled over for a tinted license plate cover (legal where car was registered, but not in the state I was driving in). No speeding or anything else. Had just had my license suspended that day. Got arrested and placed in patrol car. Was shown my citations.
My two friends who were in the car with me were prepared and instructed to follow the police to the station to pay my fines and such. They got back in the car, turned it on, locked doors and all. The officers then asked them to get back out of the vehicle, eventualy conducted a search, found substances and got charged.
My question is if that search sounds legit to you? I am former military, and I know they have a rigid protocol for such things. It just seems that the initial stop for the tag and my suspended license should have ended once my citations were written.
Thanks so much for all your info in this thread. Indebted.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 68,233
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Thadeous]
#16833542 - 09/12/12 08:11 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's a tricky situation. The search could be based on two basic theories: 1. A terry frisk of the car 2. A reasonable search under the 4th amendment
As a terry frisk, it is a strange case because you were already under arrest and in the back of the car. Such searches have been upheld when someone is in the back of the car, but the rationale has been that they could return to the car to grab a weapon. I don't see how that applies in a case where the defendant is already in custody and won't be returning to the car. This could go either way in court as a terry frisk. I suspect the search would be upheld, but you'd have a good shot on appeal...assuming it's worth taking it that far.
As a reasonable search under the 4th, the facts are equally odd. If the cop didn't search the car before telling the passengers to follow, the argument can be made that he didn't have probable cause at that point. Unless he can articulate some information that gave him probable cause after that, I don't see how this search is legal. Again, I suspect the search would be upheld as a terry frisk by the trial court, so probable cause might not even come into play at that point. In any case, this search has a good chance of not being upheld on appeal.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16834061 - 09/12/12 10:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I will have to ask my lawyer what they are claiming the search to be. The case has been degenerating since day one. charged us with a felony amount of marijuana, when there was less than a half oz. Dropped an LSD charge all together. And charged us with possession and distribution of methamphetamine, which we didn't even have. It has been over a year, and we are still waiting for arraignment of our new charges. Speedy trial my ass! lol.
Thanks again Enlil. Very informative stuff. Also, I have envy over your folding bar.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Thadeous]
#16834070 - 09/12/12 10:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Also, I have envy over your folding bar.
I'm a little upset with him about that. 
/me bans Enlil
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Shroom_i
Gatherer




Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 868
Loc: Zone Six (6)
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
#16838457 - 09/12/12 10:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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because I'd take a hit for my girl?
-------------------- Prisoner#1 said: [quote]destructo_low said: Prisoner's posts by percentage. Smart and witty - 9.9999922409044% Kind and caring - 0.0000077590956% [/quote] worthy of a facepalm - 90%[/quote]
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 68,233
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Shroom_i]
#16839400 - 09/13/12 05:06 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Because you'd take a hit from a cannon to prevent your girl from getting a hangnail.
Unless your girl actually participated in the crime, you're not really protecting her from anything except a bit of inconvenience. To confess to a felony of which you are not guilty just to prevent that is not rational.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16839713 - 09/13/12 07:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Enlin, please comment on this thread.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16839665
Do buyers have anything to fear? Many people probably paid with credit cards or money orders and most shipments had delivery confirmations.
Might the DEA give buyer info to local law enforcement?
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 2,573
Loc: Hunting Fungi
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: joemolloy]
#16840622 - 09/13/12 11:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey Enlil,
Follow-up regarding that civil case for about $6,200
So I requested an adjournment, but the court denied it, leaving me with a trial date (with jury requested) on 9/25 at 9am.
The law firm has refused settlement offers of 25%, 40%, and 50%, and have offered $5400.
As I see it the real options for me are:
1. Go on the court date and try to settle in person. The problem here is that I have to take a day off of work and rent a car, which will cost me about $700. In addition, I was just promoted (!) and so don't want to take any days off for a while. Furthermore, I doubt that they're going to move down below 5k. 2. Given that I don't stand a snowball's chance in hell in a trial, I could just no-show for court, let them have a default, and play hide n' seek. 3. Pay the $5400, call it a day, and, "take my lumps" as you succinctly stated. 4. (Is this an option?) Since the settlement offer is so poor, does it make sense to call the creditor and offer the full amount in return for either a removal from my credit report, or a "Paid in Full" status?
The real "problem" here is that I now have a good job. If I was busted and unemployed I'd be more apt to say F it, take your judgment. But a hit on my credit report would hurt now.
Am I missing anything?
tyvm  Chicken
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 68,233
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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The original creditor sold the debt. They can't accept payment if they wanted to. In addition, it's unlikely that they're going to make such a deal even if they still owned the debt. That was pretty common 10 years ago, but few creditors agree to that anymore.
Option 3 is the one that does the least damage to you.
1 results in immediate cost to you plus a good chance of paying $5400 or getting a judgment for more than that against you 2 results in a guaranteed judgment plus years of dodging and ducking 4, as mentioned above is probably not even an option.
You played chicken with the plaintiff...they haven't flinched...Is it really worth running off of the cliff on principle?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 2,573
Loc: Hunting Fungi
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16840789 - 09/13/12 11:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes this is basically the same advice you gave me last time, with which I agree, aside from one doubt about option #4.
"Citi" is reporting on my credit report. The company that bought the debt works with Citi, and has the ability to report back to them payments, settlements, etc. which will then be reflected in my report.
If I pay the debt collection company the full amount, would they not have the ability to (at best) remove this item from my credit report, or (at worst) report it as "Paid in Full?"
The point is that, since the representing law firm both has me by the balls and is making such a crappy offer, for another $800 I can get a "Paid in Full" as opposed to "Settled" or a similar black mark.
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (09/13/12 11:58 AM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 68,233
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Paid in full is slightly better than "settled for less than full amount". Plus, it won't really cost you $800 more because you'll have to pay taxes on the $800 debt "forgiveness"...assuming they 1099 you...sometimes they don't.
But don't expect a full deletion or a "paid as agreed."
This is all assuming, of course, that citi does still own the debt.
Truthfully, I doubt that a paid collection account is $800 better than a settled one. It's your choice to make, of course.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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