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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Doc_T]
    #16628517 - 08/01/12 01:55 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Are there steps that could reduce the chance of that?
Keep the stuff in a safe, keep the room door locked, etc?

Or pretty much everybody gets arrested and they sort it out later?

And does it matter who is on the lease or not in that scenario?



It depends on many things.  Most likely no one will be arrested on the spot unless the police have an arrest warrant already.  Usually, the arrest will come a day or two later.  Having the stuff in a safe or in a locked room helps when it comes to avoiding charges, but the cops aren't going to know who has access to the room until they've questioned people.

In this situation, the best thing to do is get a lawyer and talk to the police with the lawyer present...most likely, it will end there.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
    #16628534 - 08/01/12 02:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'd move out. This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
    #16628564 - 08/01/12 02:05 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

/agree


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
    #16632725 - 08/02/12 08:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So I'm 18 and meet a hot girl online who tells me she's 16 but is actually 13. In my state it's legal for a 16 year old to have sex with an 18 year old. We hook up and fuck, then get caught. The girl then admits to the cops that she told me she was 16.

What happens to me? Am I responsible for checking the ID of everyone I fuck or does her admitted lie about her age get me off the hook?

My question is inspired by this.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid] * 3
    #16632894 - 08/02/12 09:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

For every element of a crime, there are two components....The guilty act (actus reus) and a mental state (mens rea).  Both need to be present for every element in order to be convicted.  Let me give a simple example.

For the crime of simple possession, the elements are:

1. Exercising dominion and control over
2. A scheduled substance

Both of those have to be proven, but there's more to the picture.  For each element, the accused must also meet a particular state of mind...in this case, the mens rea for both elements is knowledge.  He has to KNOW that he has dominion and control, and he has to KNOW what the controlled substance is.

So, if he has a bag of coke in his pocket but thinks it's baby powder...the second element isn't there because he lacks the requisite mens rea for that element.

There are several levels of mens rea possible for an element...they are:

1. Strict liability - Doesn't matter what state of mind he had
2. Negligence - Failure to take reasonable care
3. Recklessness - Consciously disregarding a substantial risk
4. Knowing - Has actual knowledge
5. Intent - Intends the prohibited result

These are listed in ascending order.

With that background, lets look at statutory rape.  It varies from state to state, and some states have an age difference provision, but the basic elements are:

1. Coitus,
2. Accomplished on a minor,

The mens rea for each are typically:

1. Coitus - Intent...Must intend to engage in coitus.
2. Accomplished on a minor - Strict liability...Doesn't matter if you knew the victim was a minor...OR
                                              - Negligence...A reasonable person would have known it was a minor...OR
                                              - Recklessness...You had facts that pointed to her being a minor which you disregarded...OR
                                              - Knowledge...You actually KNEW she was a minor

So, under the facts of your hypo, it's gonna depend on what the mens rea requirement is for the second element.  If it's knowlege, you're probably fine...if it's strict liability, you're fucked...anything in between...it could go either way.

A good portion of states are strict liability, and that seems to be the direction that we're headed.  I'm sure it won't be too long before every state is strict liability.


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Edited by Enlil (08/02/12 09:44 AM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #16632936 - 08/02/12 09:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, thanks again. As usual a comprehensive and definitive answer. You keep this up and you're going to change my mind about lawyers. :razz:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
    #16634070 - 08/02/12 01:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Good shit enlil.

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Anonymous #9

Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
    #16643184 - 08/04/12 03:54 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you live in an apartment, Do police still need a warrant to search?
I mean, If they come by themselves straight to my door they would need one..
But most apartments are owned by the landlord, Can't they just go to him and tell them they had a tip for example that I'm growing and then go together to have a look inside my apt?

I think the landlord is allowed to come for inspections if he hears something bad is going on.. and I think he has a master key too.
I don't really want to ask the landlord this though.. That would draw his attention.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Anonymous #9] * 1
    #16643355 - 08/04/12 05:29 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
If you live in an apartment, Do police still need a warrant to search?
I mean, If they come by themselves straight to my door they would need one..
But most apartments are owned by the landlord, Can't they just go to him and tell them they had a tip for example that I'm growing and then go together to have a look inside my apt?




A landlord can't give consent to search your apartment.  It doesn't matter who owns the place.  It only matters who has lawful possession of the place.  A landlord has ownership but not possession of your apartment, therefore he cannot give consent to search.
Quote:


I think the landlord is allowed to come for inspections if he hears something bad is going on.. and I think he has a master key too.
I don't really want to ask the landlord this though.. That would draw his attention.



In most states, the landlord is allowed to inspect, but he has to give notice beforehand except in cases of emergencies.  In no state can a landlord simply walk into the apartment at any time without a good reason.

This might be a good place to talk about roommates as well.  Roommates both have legal possession of a dwelling, so either can give consent to a search.  There are, however, some details that make a big difference. 

For instance, if facts exist that should alert the police that a particular area of the house is exclusively possessed by one roommate, the other roommate's consent would not be enough to justify the search.  If a room is locked, for example, and the person giving consent does not have the key, then the cops can't just bust down the door to look in there.

Another key roommate point is about disagreeing roommates.  If the cops some and one roommate consents to the search while the other one objects, the objecting roommate wins.  The cops can't search under those circumstances.  They can, however, come back later when the objecting roommate is not there and search with the consent of the other roommate.


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Invisibleklimt
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
    #16644131 - 08/04/12 10:20 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Enlil:

I am located in Michigan.

When pulled over for a traffic citation and there are other passengers in the car, I've had police officers ask everyone in the vehicle for identification.

Do the passengers have a right to refuse to give a name and provide identification?

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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: klimt]
    #16644147 - 08/04/12 10:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My friend got busted growing psilocybin mushrooms. It has been three months and still no charges have been filed. He is completely out of the game and never even mentions drugs now. Do lab results take that long to come back? He had guns too, so I know there is a mandatory minimum just for that. He doesn't seem like a snitch, as he was the biggest dealer in my group of friends. What could be taking them sooooo long to indict him?

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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: klimt]
    #16644172 - 08/04/12 10:31 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

No, they have no Constitutional right to refuse to give their name.  The consequences of not giving a name is going to depend on the state law.  I don't know of any Michigan law requiring people to identifiy themselves, however.  In the absence of such a law, the police can ask, but the people can simply not answer.

As stated in the OP, I'm not checking westlaw to see if MI has some precedent which requires them to identify, but it appears that they do not.

Here is a wiki page explaining these types of laws and the states that have them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: joshisstoned]
    #16644180 - 08/04/12 10:32 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joshisstoned said:
My friend got busted growing psilocybin mushrooms. It has been three months and still no charges have been filed. He is completely out of the game and never even mentions drugs now. Do lab results take that long to come back? He had guns too, so I know there is a mandatory minimum just for that. He doesn't seem like a snitch, as he was the biggest dealer in my group of friends. What could be taking them sooooo long to indict him?



Is he in jail?


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
    #16644462 - 08/04/12 11:45 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

No. They came to serve a bench warrant for unpaid fines and he pulled up to his house with his paycheck cashed in his pocket. The cops grabbed ho's keys and despite him stating repeatedly that he did not want them to go in they just went in anyway. Either they are now watching him or are considering other factors (such as half the shrooms and dro walking out of the evidence room. Which is cool, because it kept him under the federal minimums. ) also, when they made the bust, they did not call for backup or don the space suits and evacuate the area. These cops had no idea what they were going to find. They said"we don't feel comfortable with this much money so were putting it in your trailer. They smelled marijuana smoked and they said they were searching the rest of the house. They left everything that could have made a cultivation case other than some fruiting grow bags. Pc, tubs, jars, even two petri dishes fully colonized. Left there. I also found his hard drug stash and an ounce of shrooms and a couple eights of dro just strewn throughout his house. Ho's lawyer says it sounds like he got set up, but they would have handled it way differently.

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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: joshisstoned]
    #16644469 - 08/04/12 11:47 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

He's out because he paid off his fines and the bench warrant was released but criminal charges are pending awaiting lab results.but it's been two months?

Edited by joshisstoned (08/04/12 11:48 AM)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: joshisstoned]
    #16644472 - 08/04/12 11:47 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If he isn't in jail, there really isn't much of a rush for them to do anything.  They have until the statute of limitations has run to charge him.  Most likely, they are just going to test the stuff and then deal with it.  It could easily be 6 months.


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
    #16644484 - 08/04/12 11:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It's six years in Ohio for this type of offense. ::mad:

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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: joshisstoned]
    #16644490 - 08/04/12 11:51 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

They won't wait that long...If they don't charge him within a year, they probably won't.


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
    #16644499 - 08/04/12 11:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Damn, a year? He was thinking of filing a motion at the official 90day mark to get his guns back. It sounded retarded to me.....

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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: joshisstoned]
    #16644504 - 08/04/12 11:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

He can certainly do that.  I wouldn't advise it, but that's his right.


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