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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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An accomplice need not be present at the scene of the crime, no. I'll outline the difference between accomplice and accessory.
An accomplice is someone who aids in the commission of a crime. Most states require that the accomplice act with the purpose of helping someone commit a crime, but some states will convict even if the defendant helped KNOWING that it would help someone in committing a crime but without that particular purpose. Either way, it doesn't require someone be present.
An accessory (used to be called accessory after the fact)is someone who aids someone in evading capture or prosecution for a felony.
There is a lot of confusion, however, because at common law, there was an "accessory before the fact" which is now rolled into accomplice liability today. That type of accessory was someone who helped but was not present at the scene. I don't know if any states still use the old terminology, but the Model Penal Code, which most states have largely adopted has abandoned the concept of accessory before the fact.
Accomplices are convicted of the same crime as the principal, and can face the same sentence. Accessories face an independent charge and are usually sentenced far less.
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Anonymous #91
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#21559921 - 04/17/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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What are the possible legal ramifications of telling my son to stand up for himself against a bully?
The bullying has been going on for awhile and we've tried every avenue of non-violence to get it to stop. It isn't stopping and now the bully has other kids joining in as well. Since the school and bus company refuse to do anything about it, we've told him to stand up for himself and hit the bully back.
I don't really want my son growing up fighting like my brothers did, but I don't know what else to do at this point.
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Anonymous #28
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#21561205 - 04/17/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: An accomplice need not be present at the scene of the crime, no. I'll outline the difference between accomplice and accessory.
An accomplice is someone who aids in the commission of a crime. Most states require that the accomplice act with the purpose of helping someone commit a crime, but some states will convict even if the defendant helped KNOWING that it would help someone in committing a crime but without that particular purpose. Either way, it doesn't require someone be present.
An accessory (used to be called accessory after the fact)is someone who aids someone in evading capture or prosecution for a felony.
There is a lot of confusion, however, because at common law, there was an "accessory before the fact" which is now rolled into accomplice liability today. That type of accessory was someone who helped but was not present at the scene. I don't know if any states still use the old terminology, but the Model Penal Code, which most states have largely adopted has abandoned the concept of accessory before the fact.
Accomplices are convicted of the same crime as the principal, and can face the same sentence. Accessories face an independent charge and are usually sentenced far less.
Wow. Thank you for making that so clearly detailed.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#21564485 - 04/18/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let's say you agree to have a package shipped to your house for a friend who is on vacation. Assuming you never open the box, simply store it, and that the box is addressed to your friend can you be held responsible for the contents if you had no knowledge of what they were (for example your friend is receiving illegal drugs)?
As a follow up, could you make a business out of receiving and temporarily storing packages for other people? I'm assuming no.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21564525 - 04/18/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Let's say you agree to have a package shipped to your house for a friend who is on vacation. Assuming you never open the box, simply store it, and that the box is addressed to your friend can you be held responsible for the contents if you had no knowledge of what they were (for example your friend is receiving illegal drugs)?
Most drug possession laws carry a mens rea of "knowing" which means that if you don't know, you aren't guilty.
Does that mean you won't get arrested? Nope. You might get arrested and charged, but the bottom line is about what the state can prove, and it's going to be very hard for the state to prove that you knew what was in the package if: 1) it isn't open, and 2) you didn't order it. Quote:
As a follow up, could you make a business out of receiving and temporarily storing packages for other people? I'm assuming no.
Those types of businesses exist all throughout the country, but they are regulated.
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: Ask a defense attorney *DELETED* [Re: Enlil]
#21564694 - 04/18/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: Ask a defense attorney *DELETED* [Re: stevo]
#21564716 - 04/18/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: stevo]
#21564757 - 04/18/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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If his ducks can fly and he hasn't taken measures to stop them going into your property, that is his negligence. The remedy is to bring a lawsuit for trespass against the man, and you can seek injunctive relief in the form of a court order prohibiting him from allowing his animals to enter your property.
If, however, you kill one of his animals, he can sue you for conversion. You can't destroy his property that happens to be on your land anymore than you could burn his car if he parked it on your front lawn.
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Anonymous #94
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#21565574 - 04/18/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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OK heres the deal...i live in CO and was working for guy A growing an illegal amount, and guy B ran one of his grow houses for him all was fine until he fucked me over for something stupid and i havent talked to the guy in 3+ months....however my roommate still works for him. apparently guy A "lost" an lb of shatter in the mail being sent out of wyoming and for some dumbass reason decided to go back up to the post office because apparently he had fucked up the shipping or something and guy B and my roommate both mail weed out of state, so they decided to go with guy A to wyoming to send out their packages too and save some gas money.
last thing we pieced together was guy A paid "someone" (dont know if it was guy B, my roommmate, or just some random guy they saw on the street) to go in to ask about the package of shatter. boom. guy A and B and my roommate here in colorado got arrested in wyoming...i know guy A was going there for a package that had been lost or messed up and am 90% sure they were getting him on a sting op for coming back for it....now my roommate had ~a lb of flower and an oz of shatter, packaged for mailing...guy B had the same type of package, all 3 got arrested, my roommate hasnt made his phone call that i know of, they wouldnt tell me the charges but said on all 3 of them bail was 10k cash only and after looking at norml.org and wyomings penalties they are fucked.....all of them are fucked. their next court date is on friday....what will they be doing there? Can i attend?
so clearly they got arrested, they were in a car with CO tags too, and had weed packaged with them for mailing....does this mean interstate trafficking plus federal shit for it being packaged for mailing?
how worried should i be that anyone comes to my door in CO?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,266
Last seen: 11 hours, 50 minutes
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You can attend, but it will be an arraignment and you won't learn much there. The only thing that could happen is that bail could be lowered. They should ask for lower bail.
You could help by trying to get together bail money, perhaps from relatives.
Chance of cops coming to your place with a search warrant isn't too great, perhaps 5 - 10%. If during questioning they admitted having more Cannabis, chance of that goes to around 90%.
If they don't bail out within a couple weeks, you could probably help by finding short term sublets for your roomates room.
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resonant111
left ∞ right

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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If an individual is caught growing a single marijuana plant is he charged with:
Cultivation of 1 marijuana plant ONLY OR Cultivation of 1 marijuana plant AND possession of x grams of marijuana (based on how much the live plant weighs)
In my state cultivation of 1 plant is a minor misdemeanor excused with probation but possession of more than 30 grams of marijuana is a felony with 1 year mandatory minimum and $25k fine. A live marijuana plant would easily contain more than 30 grams of weed, prior to cultivation, due to wet weight alone.
Just wondering....
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Anonymous said: What are the possible legal ramifications of telling my son to stand up for himself against a bully?
The bullying has been going on for awhile and we've tried every avenue of non-violence to get it to stop. It isn't stopping and now the bully has other kids joining in as well. Since the school and bus company refuse to do anything about it, we've told him to stand up for himself and hit the bully back.
I don't really want my son growing up fighting like my brothers did, but I don't know what else to do at this point.
Sorry, I missed this one the first time around.
There's no easy answer to this. Telling your son to "stand up" for himself may mean a lot of things, but I'm confident that he will see it as a recommendation that he physically harm the bully. That's almost certainly going to be an assault on his part. In rare cases, it might be self-defense, but most likely it'd be considered mutual combat regardless of who "started it".
Civilly, the kid who got hurt worse is more likely to sue the kid who didn't get hurt as badly. Again, it matters not who started it.
Everyone gets into fights as a kid, and most likely, no legal ramifications will come from it at all, but there is always that possibility.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Anonymous said: OK heres the deal...i live in CO and was working for guy A growing an illegal amount, and guy B ran one of his grow houses for him all was fine until he fucked me over for something stupid and i havent talked to the guy in 3+ months....however my roommate still works for him. apparently guy A "lost" an lb of shatter in the mail being sent out of wyoming and for some dumbass reason decided to go back up to the post office because apparently he had fucked up the shipping or something and guy B and my roommate both mail weed out of state, so they decided to go with guy A to wyoming to send out their packages too and save some gas money.
last thing we pieced together was guy A paid "someone" (dont know if it was guy B, my roommmate, or just some random guy they saw on the street) to go in to ask about the package of shatter. boom. guy A and B and my roommate here in colorado got arrested in wyoming...i know guy A was going there for a package that had been lost or messed up and am 90% sure they were getting him on a sting op for coming back for it....now my roommate had ~a lb of flower and an oz of shatter, packaged for mailing...guy B had the same type of package, all 3 got arrested, my roommate hasnt made his phone call that i know of, they wouldnt tell me the charges but said on all 3 of them bail was 10k cash only and after looking at norml.org and wyomings penalties they are fucked.....all of them are fucked. their next court date is on friday....what will they be doing there? Can i attend?
so clearly they got arrested, they were in a car with CO tags too, and had weed packaged with them for mailing....does this mean interstate trafficking plus federal shit for it being packaged for mailing?
how worried should i be that anyone comes to my door in CO?
Wyoming police aren't going to search a CO residence for evidence in this case. They may tell CO police about the bust and such, but unless the PD moves quickly, any probable cause will get stale.
I think you're probably okay, but it wouldn't hurt to clean house.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
resonant111 said: If an individual is caught growing a single marijuana plant is he charged with:
Cultivation of 1 marijuana plant ONLY OR Cultivation of 1 marijuana plant AND possession of x grams of marijuana (based on how much the live plant weighs)
In my state cultivation of 1 plant is a minor misdemeanor excused with probation but possession of more than 30 grams of marijuana is a felony with 1 year mandatory minimum and $25k fine. A live marijuana plant would easily contain more than 30 grams of weed, prior to cultivation, due to wet weight alone.
Just wondering....
Could be charged with possession, cultivation, or both, depending on what the prosecutor decides to do.
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Anonymous #94
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#21579257 - 04/22/15 07:06 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Anonymous said: OK heres the deal...i live in CO and was working for guy A growing an illegal amount, and guy B ran one of his grow houses for him all was fine until he fucked me over for something stupid and i havent talked to the guy in 3+ months....however my roommate still works for him. apparently guy A "lost" an lb of shatter in the mail being sent out of wyoming and for some dumbass reason decided to go back up to the post office because apparently he had fucked up the shipping or something and guy B and my roommate both mail weed out of state, so they decided to go with guy A to wyoming to send out their packages too and save some gas money.
last thing we pieced together was guy A paid "someone" (dont know if it was guy B, my roommmate, or just some random guy they saw on the street) to go in to ask about the package of shatter. boom. guy A and B and my roommate here in colorado got arrested in wyoming...i know guy A was going there for a package that had been lost or messed up and am 90% sure they were getting him on a sting op for coming back for it....now my roommate had ~a lb of flower and an oz of shatter, packaged for mailing...guy B had the same type of package, all 3 got arrested, my roommate hasnt made his phone call that i know of, they wouldnt tell me the charges but said on all 3 of them bail was 10k cash only and after looking at norml.org and wyomings penalties they are fucked.....all of them are fucked. their next court date is on friday....what will they be doing there? Can i attend?
so clearly they got arrested, they were in a car with CO tags too, and had weed packaged with them for mailing....does this mean interstate trafficking plus federal shit for it being packaged for mailing?
how worried should i be that anyone comes to my door in CO?
Wyoming police aren't going to search a CO residence for evidence in this case. They may tell CO police about the bust and such, but unless the PD moves quickly, any probable cause will get stale.
I think you're probably okay, but it wouldn't hurt to clean house.
even with like 20k$ wholesale worth of shit? i have since cleaned house for the most part....leaving the weed (legal amount since im on probation) in a common area so it can be considered his, but got my L outta the house.
say none of them talk about the grow houses in CO and just say they bought the weed/hash and drove it across state lines.....does that make it so there is basically no reason for the wyoming police to do anything involving searching CO residences?
since they drove across state lines with packaged product does this mean interstate trafficking and federal offense because its packaged for mailing? or is it not considered mail until postage is paid for and its in the post peoples hands? they all got max bail for the charges that im assuming they got, but the federal charge throws a wrench in things quite a bit.
after talking to my roommates family it sounds like they wanna bail him out and make him disappear because hes facing so much time, with a federal charge wouldnt that bring a federal warrant for missing court after making bail? also doesnt that mean that if he fucks up in any state, the federal warrant would show up on the smallest towns computer system after runing his ID because its federal?
so arraignment is friday, it would be illegal for me to go thanks to probation, how can i find out the outcome? or is it all gonna be closed doors until the investigation is finished? as i understand the only thing arraignment will do is show what happened and the judge decides on whether bail is too high/low/right....after arraignment how long do you think it will take until the next court date? whats decided there?
ive googled for articles and looked on wyomings case search and cant find a thing on any of the 3 of them....is that a bad sign or are they just slow? using this site: https://efiling.courts.state.wy.us/public/publicActorSearch.do to look for wyoming documents on the case
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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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the chance of your friend being able to hide from the us government for his lifetime is slim to none.
i cant believe his family would even consider it...
Way better off to man up, lawyer up, and face the consequence
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Anonymous said:
even with like 20k$ wholesale worth of shit? i have since cleaned house for the most part....leaving the weed (legal amount since im on probation) in a common area so it can be considered his, but got my L outta the house.
If Wyoming police searched the house, what could they find that would help them? They can't charge him with possession based on what is in another state.Quote:
say none of them talk about the grow houses in CO and just say they bought the weed/hash and drove it across state lines.....does that make it so there is basically no reason for the wyoming police to do anything involving searching CO residences?
Wyoming and Colorado are different states with different laws. Wyoming cannot prosecute a crime committed in Colorado. If he illegally cultivated in Colorado, Wyoming can't do fuckall about that.Quote:
since they drove across state lines with packaged product does this mean interstate trafficking and federal offense because its packaged for mailing? or is it not considered mail until postage is paid for and its in the post peoples hands? they all got max bail for the charges that im assuming they got, but the federal charge throws a wrench in things quite a bit.
It's definitely a federal offense, but that doesn't mean that he'll be charged federally. That could go either way.Quote:
after talking to my roommates family it sounds like they wanna bail him out and make him disappear because hes facing so much time, with a federal charge wouldnt that bring a federal warrant for missing court after making bail? also doesnt that mean that if he fucks up in any state, the federal warrant would show up on the smallest towns computer system after runing his ID because its federal?
A state warrant would show up in every state as well. Also, running may lead to them searching the house in CO to look for him.
Running is a bad idea. He'll get caught and do even more time because he ran.Quote:
so arraignment is friday, it would be illegal for me to go thanks to probation, how can i find out the outcome? or is it all gonna be closed doors until the investigation is finished? as i understand the only thing arraignment will do is show what happened and the judge decides on whether bail is too high/low/right....after arraignment how long do you think it will take until the next court date? whats decided there?
Arraignment is where he hears the charges and enters an initial plea, usually not guilty. An offer might be made by the prosecutor. You can check the public records online, sometimes, but it won't help you much.Quote:
ive googled for articles and looked on wyomings case search and cant find a thing on any of the 3 of them....is that a bad sign or are they just slow? using this site: https://efiling.courts.state.wy.us/public/publicActorSearch.do to look for wyoming documents on the case
Court online searches are notoriously slow at updating.
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Anonymous #94
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#21579682 - 04/22/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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thanks man.....i knew running was a terrible idea but idk thats just how his family is im just glad i havent been involved in this
also thats a relief hearing about how little pull WY has in CO
just one more question....how can being guilty of a federal offense not get you charged federall?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,471
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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The Federal government doesn't have the resources to prosecute every drug crime in the U.S. They only go after the big fish and the big conspiracies and leave most of the drug prosecutions to the state.
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Anonymous #94
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#21579764 - 04/22/15 10:05 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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cool, thanks for all the info....ive been kinda worried about my own well being...oh well, i guess time to let things play out i guess 
seriously thank you for what you do....id be totally clueless right now otherwise
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