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ch1ck3n.s0up
Troubled Loner



Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 2,573
Loc: Hunting Fungi
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16663455 - 08/07/12 09:24 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do you think that weed should be legal?
-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about drug prohibition, so I'm just going to give you my answer and a very short rationale...
I really don't want to see weed legalized, but I don't think that possession of it should be a crime.
This is because I do believe that weed is harmful and addictive. It might not be as harmful as many things that are currently legal, but that isn't the issue to me. For me, the issue is whether legalization would make society better or worse. I can't say that it would make it significantly worse, but I don't see how it would make it better aside from whatever moral benefit we recieve by being a bit more "free" of a society.
Changing our current system of drug prohiition, on the other hand, would make our society decidedly better. If I were king (which might be a few years down the road), I would set up a system where no one goes to jail for using drugs. The money currently spent on incarceration would be much better spent on education and treatment.
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16665298 - 08/08/12 09:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about drug prohibition, so I'm just going to give you my answer and a very short rationale...
I really don't want to see weed legalized, but I don't think that possession of it should be a crime.
This is because I do believe that weed is harmful and addictive. It might not be as harmful as many things that are currently legal, but that isn't the issue to me. For me, the issue is whether legalization would make society better or worse. I can't say that it would make it significantly worse, but I don't see how it would make it better aside from whatever moral benefit we recieve by being a bit more "free" of a society.
Changing our current system of drug prohiition, on the other hand, would make our society decidedly better. If I were king (which might be a few years down the road), I would set up a system where no one goes to jail for using drugs. The money currently spent on incarceration would be much better spent on education and treatment.
In your view, do you still believe people who are caught with drugs should have criminal records and be forced to pay thousands of dollars in fines to the state? I know you didn't want this to turn into a drug legalization debate but this is all I have to ask.
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NizzyJones
Fight evil with funk



Registered: 08/22/06
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Loc: Somewhere North of Normal
Last seen: 2 years, 12 days
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What? He's just said "I don't think that possession of it should be a crime" in the post you're quoting.
-------------------- Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home Curriculum vapidum (dry herb vapes)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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No. And this is why I cautioned about the possible derailing of the thread...For many pro-legalization people, it is a false dichotomy between legalization and the current system of prohibition. I don't want either of those choices, and I don't see any reason why it has to be one or the other.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16665779 - 08/08/12 12:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Back on-topic:
So every time I get a jury summons, it goes unopened straight into the trash. Ironically, I consider it my civic duty as an American citizen to serve on a jury, and given the opportunity, I would volunteer to serve. But I consider it the height of hypocrisy and unamericanism for my country to compel me to serve under penalty of law, so I don't on principle.
What kind of trouble can I get into? If asked, I'll just say that I didn't receive any such notice in the mail that I'm aware of, and since they're not sent with any kind of registration or signature requirement, it's pretty hard to refute me. But can I still get in trouble?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
#16665855 - 08/08/12 01:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Like anything else, the burden is on them to prove that you willfully failed to respond...They can prove that they sent notices. They can probably even prove beyond a reasonable doubt that at least one of those notices got to your mailbox. Proving that you saw one and read it...that's another story.
We get back to the mens rea issue...you clearly committed the actus reus here, but they have to prove that you had knowledge of the notice. That's a bit harder, and it doesn't happen often. In some places, however, courts routinely send second or third notices by certified mail. This generally is only in places that have a particularly small jury pool.
So, you're unlikely to be prosecuted for it, and even less likely to be convicted...but you should still be responding, nonetheless. As you said, it's a civic duty.
Choosing not to do the right thing simply because someone tries to force you is pretty piss-poor reasoning. It doesn't matter if you make choices to please your master or make the opposite choice to displease him...you're still dancing to his tune.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16665984 - 08/08/12 01:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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In some places, however, courts routinely send second or third notices by certified mail.
Well, that wouldn't work either. I don't open the door unless I'm expecting someone. I don't care who it is or how much they knock. So they'd never get my signature on process service, let alone a measly certified envelope.
And I'm in Miami. They don't need me that badly so I figure I'm safe from my predator government at least in this context.
but you should still be responding, nonetheless. As you said, it's a civic duty
Nope, not under threat of force, sorry. Principle trumps duty. As long as I'm being threatened, the government can suck my dick. I'm not cooperating if I can find a way not to. And I found a way not to.
It's especially insulting that the lawyers and judges are making six figure salaries while the jurors get barely enough to pay for the gas to get there and back home.
But like I said, it's about principle. I don't care about the money issue. I'm just insulted by it.
Choosing not to do the right thing simply because someone tries to force you is pretty piss-poor reasoning
You're entitled to your opinion. Me? I think caving in to a threat of violence from a government I don't trust and deeply despise in order to participate in an unfair legal system that calls an obese, high-school drop out woman with six kids living in a trailer and chain smoking cigarettes paid for with welfare checks a "jury of my peers" is a far worse travesty. That goes double when that same system that pays lip-service to freedom is prepared to lock me in a government cage for having an illegal plant in my pocket. And triple when that system is prepared to grind me up, taking my life's savings in the form of legal fees I would have to spend to defend myself because it refuses to provide me a PD on grounds that I have too much money, even though it struts around proclaiming that everyone is entitled to a defense (but failing to mention that I'm not entitled to keep my retirement savings because I have to pay for it).
But let me tell you how I really feel...
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16666001 - 08/08/12 02:01 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Enlin, lots of people buy mimosa hostilis root bark which they extract DMT from and MHRB vendors operate openly on the internet. Is it a legal gray area in the law or is this just something that the police don't care about right now? If a sympathetic judge gave a search warrant to bust a vendor, could they get search warrants for customers based on vendor records? How far back in time could they go if they did?
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: joemolloy]
#16666189 - 08/08/12 02:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't know much about it. I've never seen anyone prosecuted for possession of dmt or root bark. I don't even know if possession of the root bark is a crime federally or in any state...
As far as searching customer houses based solely on orders, it would have to be very recent orders. Probable cause goes stale pretty quickly. I'm not convinced that even an order from the same day would be enough, in itself, to search a house.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16668578 - 08/08/12 10:53 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let me ask you a lemma.
Say I somehow got myself snagged into a juror interview despite my evasive tendencies. How can I best ensure I'll be kicked out by peremptory challenge?
If I mention that I know what jury nullification is and I'm not afraid to use it, is that likely to scare the lawyers into letting me off the hook? If not, what would?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Diploid]
#16669599 - 08/09/12 05:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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The best way to up your odds of being stricken is to exhibit:
1. a strong desire to be on the jury 2. a knowledge and appreciation of the law 3. a strong personality. 4. strong opinions about legal matters.
The best way to up your odds of being seated as a juror is to exhibit:
1. the ability to listen to the question and answer the question asked. 2. above-average intelligence. 3. independence in your decision making.
Bringing up jury nullification and indicating a willingness to use it counts as 2 and 4 of the first list.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16670776 - 08/09/12 11:52 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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What is your opinion on the Silk Road and TOR, in general? Do you for-see any way the people that run TSR getting busted?
This was in the Shroomery News Forum: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16659132
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16670791 - 08/09/12 11:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let's say that I am caught with a bong that has ONLY been used to smoke salvia, ever. And salvia is legal in my state.
Does this count as illegal drug paraphernalia and am I subject to penalties for possessing it, even if it has never been used to smoke ILLEGAL drugs?
Also if there is salvia residue on the bowl, is there anyway I can argue or prove that this is not marijuana residue?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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The burden is on the state to prove that it's drug paraphernalia. This means they have to prove that this particular bong is intended to be used for ingesting illegal substances...if they can't prove that, then you're fine.
You don't have to prove what the substance is...that is the state's burden.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Anonymous said: What is your opinion on the Silk Road and TOR, in general? Do you for-see any way the people that run TSR getting busted?
This was in the Shroomery News Forum: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16659132
The devil is in the details in this sort of thing, and I am not familiar with the silk road at all...so I really can't give you any meaningful answer.
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16671260 - 08/09/12 01:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The burden is on the state to prove that it's drug paraphernalia. This means they have to prove that this particular bong is intended to be used for ingesting illegal substances...if they can't prove that, then you're fine.
You don't have to prove what the substance is...that is the state's burden.
Sorry to keep asking questions, but how exactly does that work?
I have never heard of anyone getting caught with a bong or "water pipe" and not getting charged with drug paraphernalia on those grounds before.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Of course they're gonna be charged.
A conviction is another thing altogether.
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Ask a defense attorney [Re: Enlil]
#16671280 - 08/09/12 01:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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True but the bail and lawyer fees are still a pain in the ass.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Yes, and this is one of the reasons that charges like this are almost always plead out.
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