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OfflineInsanityLater
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Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS)
    #15907429 - 03/06/12 02:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey there guys.  Long time lurker, first time poster.  First off, I just wanted to say what a great site and community.  Even without ever making a post, there is an incredible wealth of information here.  Almost to the point of being overwhelming.  I've read tons of Teks and FAQS, researched various methods, and perused random threads for months.  So thank you for that.

I've used the search engine endlessly trying to find answers for specific questions I have had to vary degrees of success.  But I am finally at the point where I need to ask for help.

I am in the midst of 2 PF Tek grows.  Actually, I am on the tail end of one, and about to fruit another.  I will give as much pertinent and relative information as possible.  I've noticed the tendency for most noobs to simply ask "WUTS WRONG WITH MY GROW!?!?!?!?" without providing any background at all that may help in identifying, thus deterring people from actually helping.  So hopefully I will be able to avoid that particular problem, but if I leave anything out, please feel free to ask for more info.

OK, so first grow.  I followed EvilMushroom666's PF Tek/RogerRabbit's LGM videos.  Used organic BRF, Stay Green Horticultural Vermiculite, and 1/2 pint Ball canning jars.  The jars are not wide-mouth, the regular ones were all the stores around me.  Actually, I was quite lucky to even have found these, as I've been looking to by a second or third set since my original purchase so that I could have 2 or 3 sets of jars colonizing at the same time, and I have yet to find any.  (On a side note, any recommendations on where to purchase jars that isn't online?)  I used the standard recipe, topped with dry verm, and steam sterilized for over 2 hours. 

I inoculated the next day in my glove box, sterilizing everything with rubbing alc, and flame sterilizing the needle between jars.  I inoculated with cubes, strain "Cambodia" from a reliable vendor.  Put into my cabinet to colonize.

Fast forward to full colonization, plus one week for consolidation.  Birthed all jars, all smelled/looked fresh with no signs of contams.  Gave them all a 24 hour dunk, followed by a roll in my verm.  It doesn't say whether it's course or fine on the bag, but if I had to pick one, I'd most definitely say it is fine.

Placed them into my Shotgun fruiting chamber.  The chamber was made as close to specs as possible, I didn't have a 1/4 inch bit, so I used a 3/16 bit and made a MASSIVE amount of holes.  There are approx 100 holes on any large side of my tote, all evenly spaced.  Placed one bag of well rinsed and drained Perlite at the bottom of the tub. This equaled about 2-3 inches (More was added later on).  Placed the cakes on foil in the FC.  I have a 100watt equivalent 5000k CFL on top of the tub shining in, it also gets supplemental indirect sunlight from the nearby window.

So i birthed these at the end of December, and my room was cold as shit (near 60 degrees), so I bought a space heater to help regulate the temp closer to 70 degrees.  I also had bought a wick type humidifier just to raise the RH in the room/replace any moisture the heater might remove.  So I was misting and fanning roughly 3 times a day, with extra fanning thrown in for good measure.  Everything was great, up until this point.  I would get pins that would look promising, then stall, abort, and subsequently rot.  They got to the point of rotting because I wouldn't pick them for fear of ruining the rest of the flush by not harvesting them all at the same time. 

I didn't what I was doing wrong, read I may be suffocating them with a too thick layer of fine verm, so I decided to redunk, and I added more moist Perlite to the FC, now bringing the level up to 4-5 inches.  I wiped away some of the verm after the dunk hoping that would help.  Some time later, a few of the cakes starting growing little brown mushrooms, that looked different than the other pins.  These looked more like mature mushrooms, but extremely small and short, maybe double the size of a pencil eraser.  These did the same thing as before, stalling, aborting, then rotting.  Basically the same thing kept happening till all growth has stopped.

I tried everything.  I thought maybe I drilled too many holes in the FC, so I tried wrapping it with Saran Wrap to try an cover them up and retain a higher moisture level.  I didn't know whether I was over or under misting so I tried different levels from soaked to barely wet.  I tried to create a humidity tent of sorts attached to the FC with a garbage bag and an Ultrasonic.  All with no luck.

Here are some pics of the FC and first set of cakes as they currently look.



This first set of cakes has been in the FC for over 2 months now, without a proper flush, and I havent seen any growth in weeks.  So what do I do with them?  What happened to them?  They look haggard now, perhaps they are contaminated, but the cakes were bluing earlier in the fruiting process, and the rotting aborts left some nasty spots as well, so I really don't know. I'm thinking they're beat and I should just start fresh, so what should I do with my old cakes?

Everyone always just says "Throw em out in the garden!"  But I don't think just throwing out whole cakes on the yard is gonna do any good, so I'm assuming bury them?  Do you bury them whole or crumble them first?  Should I put em all together, or spread em out?  I have a couple of hose plants, can I put them in their soil?  It's still pretty cold out here.

So now I have a second set of jars that is completely done colonizing, they are consolidating now.  Followed the same Tek as before, no contams.  They were innoc'd with the Mexi-Cube strain.  Since I was having so many problems with my first set of cakes, I just let these sit in the cabinet and left them alone for a long time.  It felt like these took longer to colonize, but I have no data to back up my feelings, but either way when I was waiting for them to finish up I checked on them and found some surprises!





I found full shrooms growing in 2 of my jars!!!  Incredibly exciting to me because these are bigger than anything that any of my other cakes had ever grown, and these aren't even out of the jar yet.  I didn't know what to do, so I left them for another day, then I birthed one, rolled it (no dunk), and placed it into the FC as a tester to see how it would do 2 days ago.  It seems to be doing well so far, no contams, even though it is sharing the FC with my other nasty cakes.


This is the test cake, 2 days in the FC.

The test cake is looking pretty good, but I didn't birth the other one with growth because I was waiting on consolidation, I also need some advice.  Will the fruits that are growing currently survive a 24 dunk followed by a roll?  Should I skip the dunk for jars with fruits/large pins already growing?  The past two days in the jar the shroom has grown larger and gained a few friends.




So I think that's about it.  Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.  I am hoping to give back to the community once I have a handle on cultivation, making prints, and syringes.  To sum it up:  Where did I go wrong with my first set of cakes?  Is my FC okay?  Did I just end up with a shitty strain that doesn't fruit well?  What should I do with them now?  Should I dunk my new cakes that already have fruits on them, or just roll?

And a bonus question, anyone have any preferred methods on refreshing your Perlite between sets of cakes?

Thank you so much in advance for any input, and if any more info is needed, please let me know!  I hope this was a detailed first post.


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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: InsanityLater]
    #15907765 - 03/06/12 06:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lack of nutrients in the first cakes....bacteria...Thats my only two guesses, sounds very suspect though.

If you used 1 cup of brf for 3.5 cups of verm (creating six 250ml jars) then your mushrooms should have matured without problems unless the container you used to dunk the cakes in had some sort of bacteria in it...

I doubt all those cakes had poor genetics though.

With the 2nd set, just let those mushrooms finish maturing and then dunk and roll the cake. Submerging them in water would definitely cause them to abort.


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OfflineInsanityLater
Brooks Wuz Here
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Registered: 03/01/12
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: HybridprX]
    #15908607 - 03/06/12 11:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I used the same BRF to Verm ration in the first cakes as I did in the second cakes though, so I don't see how or why things would be different this time around.  I've done everything exactly the same (to my knowledge).

The idea of the dunking container having some sort of bacteria could make sense, but the cakes remained clean, white, and fresh smelling for weeks.

So I should birth my second set of jars, and put any cakes with shrooms already growing directly into the FC with no dunk, then dunk and roll after the first flush?

Also, thank you so much for the reply, I really appreciate it.


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InvisibleStropharis
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: InsanityLater]
    #15909088 - 03/06/12 01:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Good post, a little long but then again, I am slow and impatient  ; )

What was your RH doing through out the fruiting process? You did mention it but you didn't give any numbers, looking closely at one of your photos it looks like it was sitting @ 90, was that consistently low or just when the photo was taken?

There is definitely some contamination present but that isn't a surprise seeing how long the cakes have been sitting in your FC after they failed to fruit, its time to toss those bad boys.

If you have jars that you decide to cake after they have started pinning in vitro, don't dunk and role or stress it, you can get it on the second flush, its not a big deal. 

If the cakes didn't have any visible contams and you are meeting all your environmental parameters, there is the possibility that you were dealing with bacteria but I don't think its likely. I think it is more likely that you are missing something. Get your next attempt with correct and consistant temp, rh, fae, and light.

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OfflineInsanityLater
Brooks Wuz Here
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Registered: 03/01/12
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: Stropharis]
    #15909222 - 03/06/12 02:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry about the length, I just wanted to be very thorough.  As I had mentioned before, I've seen many posts where peeps are asking for help while providing almost NO information, which clearly makes things difficult.  Thanks for reading all the way through!

I didn't have a hygrometer throughout most of the first phase.  The local cigar shop only had digital ones, and it's apparently pretty well known that these aren't worth squat for mycology purposes.  I recently bought that combo thermometer/hygrometer at Home Depot for like 3 bucks, but there is no way to calibrate it.  I wrapped it in a wet towel for an hour, and the needle only went up to 90%, where it currently is now.

So I took that as it being the equivalent of 100% RH, and where the needle was at 90% as the baseline for that.

Thanks so much for the reply, any suggestion on what to do with the old cakes?  Should I crumble them before I bury them?


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: Stropharis]
    #15909649 - 03/06/12 03:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Stropharis said:
Good post, a little long but then again, I am slow and impatient  ; )





heh, me too brother.

anyways.

i gave it my best shot at reading.

the first two pics are most likely contamd

the second pic is contamd

you can bury into houseplants too.

defo crumble them.


and hmmm, idk what else to say, use smaller jars for cakes.
see better success


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OfflineInsanityLater
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Registered: 03/01/12
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: k00laid]
    #15909858 - 03/06/12 04:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks meng.  Just finished crumbling the old cakes and distributing them throughout the house and yard, so we shall see.

Picked the two fruits of the cake in the FC, gonna let it dry out a bit, then dunk it when I birth my other jars in a day or two.  And while it is dunking I will clean out the FC/refresh the Perlite.  I'll keep you updated, definitely off to a better start with this set than the last one.

Also, I use 1/2 pints, they're just not wide mouth.


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Offlineillxyz
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: InsanityLater]
    #15910055 - 03/06/12 05:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

K so the first places I found the half pint wide jars was an ace hardware across town from me. But my local grocers had them eventually (usually in the fall theyre more common in places like this) but to let you know, most walmarts carry 4oz quilted crystal jellie jars. These jars are good to have for two reasons, one, if you 'nock up a mix of these 4oz(quarter pint) jars and your normal half pints they colonize in two to three weeks instead of three or four. Second, you get fruits sooner and in a more spread out manner as to not over stuff your FC. Moving on, why did you steam sterilize?? No PC? You can get a cheap PC for about twenty bucks at a sams or costco.got my mom one for her birthday last weekend. Its not super nice but would do the job alright. If contams an issue its a worthy investment. Another thing that might help is adding some gypsum to your mix. Theres plenty of posts in the forum explaining this if youre curious. When making your cakes only mix five jars at a time. So 2 and a half cups verm, 1 and one quarter BRF, one and one quarter water and one to three tbsp of gypsum. Another suggestion i have for you is to dump the perlite in your FC. Its messy and annoying to deal with cleaning. Get some hydroton. Much easier and cleaner. Water, bleach, air stone and hydroton. Ive also found that sometimes itll make it easier to fruit your cakes and a better pin set if you roll in casing mix instead of dry verm. I use alien casing mix. Also maybe cover some holes on your FC with some tyvek. Trial and error is the only way to progress your techniques. All i have left to say is if it were me i wouldnt put any cake material in house plants, and if you have cakes in your FC for more than two weeks with no signs of primordia and pins toss them.

  :2cents:


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Edited by illxyz (03/06/12 05:59 PM)

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OfflineInsanityLater
Brooks Wuz Here
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Registered: 03/01/12
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Re: Two sets of PF Jars with complications, advice? Plenty of info. (PICS) [Re: illxyz]
    #15917489 - 03/08/12 02:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There's really no ACE Hardwares around me.  And the set of regular 1/2 pint jars were the only ones I could find at ANY of the stores around me.  And I mean those were the ONLY ones.  I haven't even been able to find more of those jars yet.  Maybe there's a bunch of people growing near me haha.

Everything I read about 4oz jars did say that they would colonize quicker, but your overall yield would be less. 

I steam sterilized because I don't have a PC.  Also since I'm doing BRF jars, it is unnecessary to PC.  When I was doing my research into Mycology, it seemed like doing a PF Tek grow would be the easiest way to get into things for the smallest investment.  I am looking into purchasing a PC so I can get into grains into the future.

Where does one find gypsum?  I'm actually not even sure what it is, so I don't know where to look.  I assume it's a gardening supplement.

And Hydroton?  This is the first I am hearing of this stuff, please enlighten me.


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