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OfflineDeadphish64
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Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 110
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
MAOI Inhibitors
    #1590010 - 05/29/03 07:44 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I've read some things about MAOI's increasing your trip on mushrooms...I was wondering if anyone had any info on this? or is there something else you can take that would increase your trip?


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1590138 - 05/29/03 08:07 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

also does anyone know about Syrian Rue? I know it is an MAO and I was wondering how much should be eatin with mushrooms? I found a place where u can order different seeds by weight...they have 10g, 50g, 100g etc seeds and I was wondering which one and how many should I get


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1590146 - 05/29/03 08:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

yeah. it's definitely true. Take an extract (find one on Erowid) of like 3-5 grams of Syrian Rue seeds, and eat the shrooms. The MAOI (the Rue) roughly doubles the intensity of the shroom trip (along with some qualitative changes), so be careful about how much of the shrooms you want to take.

Also, you must observe strict dietary restrictions with an MAOI (a google search will get you that info)-be careful!!!!


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1590181 - 05/29/03 08:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

so I should get 5 grams of seeds and then use an extraction method (like the lemon juice one) and then take that before I eat the shroooms?


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1590261 - 05/29/03 08:29 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

do u actually have to extract the seeds? or can u just eat 5 grams of crushed seeds and then the mushies?


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1590418 - 05/29/03 09:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

You can eat the seeds themselves (I'd recommend washing them off first), but you might get some nausea from them.  That's why the extract is recommended.  Either way will work though.

Something cool about the extraction, though.  If you evaporate the extraction to obtain either a gummy substance or crystaline harmine and harmaline, you can throw it in a bowl an take a hit.  Gracie and Zarkov mention this, and apparently it makes the trip VERY intense for a few minutes.  I haven't tried it yet, but I will later this summer.  :smile:

Also, it's generally recommended that you consume the extact about 30 min before eating the shrooms.  A little longer for just seeds, I'd assume, though some sites recommend spreading out the consumption of the MAOI over the course of the trip, but concetrated more at the beginning. 


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1590428 - 05/29/03 09:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

so if I take lets say 3 grams at the beginning and then 2 grams later...that 2 grams will extend my trip even longer?


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1590523 - 05/29/03 09:31 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe. I think the recommendation for spreading out the consumption was more just to reduce nausea. The MAOI will stay in your system for a while, so I doubt there's that much difference lenght-wise between taking 5 grams at the beginning and doing 3 then 2. I think it's just more of a comfort thing.


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1590539 - 05/29/03 09:33 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

thanx...I can't wait to do this...the seeds are in the mail and I have my mushies...would you say doing more then 5grams with about an 1/8 would be good? or do u think 5grams should just about to it to reach that level 5 trip that I love


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1590562 - 05/29/03 09:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The Shroomery dose calculator recommends like 2.5 (or so) grams of shrooms with a MAOI (3-5 grams Syrian Rue generally) for level 5. Just remember that 3.5 grams shrooms with an MAOI will be comparable in strength to a quarter of shrooms alone. That'll definitely get you to level 5. Just be careful and remember dietary restrictions.

PS-later this summer I plan to do Syrian Rue extract with 7 grams shrooms-will be VERY VERY intense-I anticipate complete ego death.


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huh????


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Offlinethe free thinker
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1590615 - 05/29/03 09:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Shroomery dose calculator recommends like 2.5 (or so) grams of shrooms with a MAOI (3-5 grams Syrian Rue generally) for level 5. Just remember that 3.5 grams shrooms with an MAOI will be comparable in strength to a quarter of shrooms alone. That'll definitely get you to level 5. Just be careful and remember dietary restrictions.

PS-later this summer I plan to do Syrian Rue extract with 7 grams shrooms-will be VERY VERY intense-I anticipate complete ego death.




You're a brave soul...


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: the free thinker]
    #1590689 - 05/29/03 09:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks free thinker! I haven't decided for sure if I'll do it, and I may back down to like 5 grams shrooms with an MAOI. I'll use a sitter and take all kinds of safety precautions, etc, then just strap in for the ride.


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huh????


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: the free thinker]
    #1590703 - 05/29/03 10:00 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

a quarter of good shrooms doesn't always seem to get me to level 5 though....I'm not a normal sized person (6'5" 290lb football player) and I've eaten 10 grams of shrooms before (def ego death and enlightenment)...if I only have 3.5g of mushies and take more then 5grams of syrian rue, then would that be more then 7grams comparably?


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1590896 - 05/29/03 10:30 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

that's right. I didn't realize that you were a man of prodigious stature. In that case, I say go for it. Yeah-3.5 grams mushies and 5 grams syrian rue is about 7 grams mushies alone.

Of course, that's just approximate. The MAOI+shrooms experience is generally described as more "other," and less panicky (the MAOI has a calming effect, generally). Also, there's more of a body load, generally-you might not want to get up and move around as much. Have fun!!!


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1590927 - 05/29/03 10:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

yeah I alittle bit larger then most people...but I can't wait to do this...my plan is for on saturday I have my last final at 10am...then go pick up the seeds from the mail...then bring them back and I was thinking of either grinding up 6grams and adding to orange juice or use the lemon juice extraction (which one would u recommend) and then about 15-30mins later eat 3.5g of mushies...then throw on some Phish and get lost in space for awhile...thanx for the help...any suggestions for my trip would be greatly appreciated


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1591357 - 05/29/03 11:53 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I'd say the lemon juice extraction is simplest and easiest. Your plan sounds good. I haven't listened to Phish tripping yet.

Suggestions:
prepare with some meditation or taking a walk, etc.
have someone available to talk to (not necessarily a sitter)
download some fractals to look at
get a kaleidoscope (sp?)
relax and enjoy!!!!!!
Don't forget about dietary restrictions!!

Wish I had some mushies for this weekend!!




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huh????


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InvisibleOctopusDr
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1591387 - 05/29/03 11:59 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

If you dont mind me asking, about how old are you?  You seem pretty knowledgeable about this stuff and thats cool. :cool: 



Edited by OctopusDr (05/30/03 12:02 AM)


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1591392 - 05/30/03 12:00 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

thanx for the suggestions....this should be a fun trip...I'll give an update after the trip to let u know about it....and I def recommend listening to some Phish while tripping...the hardest I've ever tripped have been at Phish concerts


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1592165 - 05/30/03 07:15 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

there have been numerous threads about MAOi stuff, caapi vine, syrian rue seeds, passionflower, hamine/harmaline, & extraction techs here at the shroomery (most in the "other drugs" forum, but also in a few other fora as well...)
if you utfse you will get all that info & trip reports as well...
i recommend the salt/vinegar extraction tech (manske/hasenfratz method) because wou will get practically all the useful betacarboline chems as a nice powder (pretty orangish mossy mat of pretty dam' pure crystals) & leave many of the undesirable chems found in the seeds behind (dr shulgin says up to half of the alkaloids are not betacarbs, but chems that're more anticholniergic & uterotonic & other sorta yucky stuff....) & you won't have to deal with the awful taste of a rue seed/lemon tea (bbbbrrrrrr....); also, it is easy to prep a smokable freebase form by dissolvine the crude HCl salts in dH2O & slowly adding ammonia water (unscented nonsudsing laundry ammonia) until precipitaion ceases, gathering the solid ppt, washing with cold H2O & drying well... --- & if you smoke 50 mg of this stuff during any trip you might be quite surprised at what ensues, hehheh...
anyway, play safe with this stuff (& even though many of the stringent dietary restrictions for prescription MAOi chems may not apply, it would still be prudent to avoid consuming large doses of decongestants, amphetamines, or antihistamines while dosing on any MAOi...)


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: gnrm23]
    #1592169 - 05/30/03 07:20 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

OctopusDr:
"If you dont mind me asking, about how old are you? You seem pretty knowledgeable about this stuff and thats cool. "

Just turned 19 on the 27th of May. :smile:  Thanks for the compliment.  I appreciate it. 

gnrm23-That sounds like a nice extraction.  I'll have to try that one. 


--------------------
huh????


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors *DELETED* [Re: Pala]
    #1592707 - 05/30/03 12:50 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineDogomush
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: poke smot!]
    #1592893 - 05/30/03 01:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I've tripped many times on syrian rue and mushrooms.

People always say that taking the rue will increase the trip times 2, but this isn't true at all. It changes the thing completely. There are a lot of similarities.. you know the mushrooms are there, but I've found that a high dose of mush and rue will produce an ayahuasca-like come-up followed by an extended shroom trip with more emphasis on conversation than normal shrooms. Extremely energetic conversations.. I've never done it alone, but I really oughtta just to see where all that talking energy goes.

I've taken 4.5 grams of mushrooms with 4 grams of capped powdered syrian rue. It was definetly not like taking 9 grams of mushrooms (even though I've never taken that much I can imagine based on a few 5 gram trips).

The first time I took syrian rue I ate an eighth of mushrooms with 3 grams of rue tea. I reccomend dosing with 3 grams of syrian rue and whatever mushroom dose you usually feel comfortable with.

As for rue extractions, I've never tried making a goo for gelcapping, I've only done water/lemon extractions. I'm wondering how long syrian rue extract lasts.. anybody know?


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Dogomush]
    #1593002 - 05/30/03 02:20 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

is there much difference if I were to just crush the seeds into a powder and mix with juice or is it better to use the water/lemon extraction? I may not have a kitchen I can use it cooking rue smells bad...so would it work just fine if I just crushed the seeds?


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1593087 - 05/30/03 02:34 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

also this is the method I found for extraction with vinegar: "Take rue, powder it, place it water with small amount of acetic acid (distilled vinager) bring to simmer, cool and strain, repeat at least once, on the last batch, add the strained water hot and dissolve a good quantity of non iodized salt into the water, place in fridge/freezer (watch it so it don't freeze and break your container) and cool down to really cold, brownish orange flakes will percipitate out, let set in fridge until flakes settle to bottom, pour off excess liquid, then filter the rest through a coffee filter, wash with cold salt water, dry and scrape off the powder."

does this sound right? and when it says to wash the orange flakes in cold salt water, how exactly should u do it? should I put the flakes from the coffee filter in cold salt water or should I dump the coffee filter in the cold salt water?

or should I not waste my time and simply just put the powdered seeds in juice?


--sorry for all the questions, just want to get it right--


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1593157 - 05/30/03 02:47 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

or this method: "Take two tablespoons ground Rue and bring to boil with 3 cups of water and 2 tablespoons of lemon juice. Let boil for 5 minutes. Let cool and then filter the grounds through a coffee filter, paper towel, or cheesecloth. Keep the liquid pour off separate from the grounds. You can boil and filter the grounds with water and lemon juice two more: times to get a higher yield of harm(al)ine. You can also wrap ground seeds in a coffee filter. staple it. shut, and boil it like a teabag for a half hour.
After boiling and filtering the grounds, set them aside. Take the murky brown pour-off. bring it to a slow boil and let boil for 20 to 30 minutes. The water will boil off, leaving a very sticky brown resin. It. smells like a rich coffee or unsweetened chocolate, and tastes quite bitter. It is water-soluble, so it- cleans up easily.

This resin is a crude harm(al)ine extract. When cooled and dried, the resin can be scraped and molded like clay. The resin can also be rolled into a ball and smoked for mid hypnotic effect."

about how long do these extractions take?


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors *DELETED* [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1593421 - 05/30/03 04:00 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: poke smot!]
    #1595468 - 05/31/03 02:47 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

what would happen if u took too much syrian rue? would say 8-10g of rue be too much for a chocolate that has about 3.5g of mushies in it?


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OfflinePala
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1595781 - 05/31/03 09:36 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I would be careful, as I believe chocolate is one of the foods to avoid with MAOIs (but double-check me on that). Also, there's really no need to take that much rue. A certain dose will achieve full MAO inhibition, and above that level there are very diminishing returns. For your size, I guess I'd recommend like 5 grams rue. Also, you could try to remove as much chocolate as possible from the shrooms, unless they're ground up in there (I don't know, as I've never had the chocolate-covered shrooms). Hope this helps. Good luck.


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Pala]
    #1597700 - 06/01/03 04:44 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I know u should mix an MAOI with beer...but would be ok to drink some homemade liquour....like some homemade moonshine if I took an MAOI in the morning and drank it at night?


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors *DELETED* [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1597841 - 06/01/03 09:53 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: poke smot!]
    #1600492 - 06/02/03 05:08 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

alright...well my rue seeds will finally be here today so I'm going to do the extract and eat some with some mushies...can't wait for it...but quick question about the extract...in the directions it says to:

"You can also wrap ground seeds in a coffee filter. staple it shut, and boil it like a teabag for a half hour (best way!).
After boiling and filtering the grounds, set them aside. Take the murky brown pour-off. bring it to a slow boil and let boil for 20 to 30 minutes."

this is for the lemon juice/water extract method...well I was wondering what I should do with the ground seeds in the coffee filter...should I just throw them out or are they still useful in someway?


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors *DELETED* [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1600707 - 06/02/03 08:06 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: poke smot!]
    #1601502 - 06/02/03 03:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

well the trip is ready to begin....I just ground up 6grams of rue seeds and mixed them with some juice and took it all down...not that bad of a taste I thought...I didn't have a kitchen available so I couldn't do the extract...in about 45 minutes I'm eatin a 3.5g of some good mushies...and then blast off the trip begins...I'll try to report in later about how it's going


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors *DELETED* [Re: Deadphish64]
    #1601514 - 06/02/03 03:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: poke smot!]
    #1601546 - 06/02/03 03:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

By the way, it's MAOI's or MAO Inhibitors, not MAOI Inhibitors

Here in Vegas, people always talk about the C.E.S. Show or the Consumer Electronics Show Show. Off-topic, but it amuses me.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: Swami]
    #1601749 - 06/02/03 04:34 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

& there's always:
the department of redundancy department
:smile:


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Offlinethe free thinker
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: gnrm23]
    #1602052 - 06/02/03 06:32 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

And then how everyone says (including me) "I'm getting a DSL line installed" [Digital Subscriber Line Line)

Hehe :smile: 


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OfflineDeadphish64
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Re: MAOI Inhibitors [Re: the free thinker]
    #1603326 - 06/03/03 01:44 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

ok...we it def was a weird trip as people described it but it was also an awful trip for me...I don't know if it was that I couldn't make the extract and had to drink the ground up rue seeds in juice or that my shrooms were ground up in chcocolate interatcted with the MAOI...but about an hour after I drank the rue seeds I started to puke every 5 minutes for an hour...then after it stopped I had to lay down for the rest of the night becuase everytime I stood up I wanted to puke again...I know I read in another thread where some guy had the same thing and he thought it was from some Aleve he took a few days before...I have no idea what caused it, but all I know is if I'm going to try this again (which I do because I want to experience an enjoyable trip)..I will def do the extract next time


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