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OfflineBreadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 870
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
morals stemmed from instinct?
    #15898683 - 03/04/12 11:17 AM (12 years, 27 days ago)

could morals have originated from instincts?


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"Don't just do something, stand there!" -Mr. Rabbit-

              Breadnbutterfly

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: Breadnbutterfly86]
    #15898902 - 03/04/12 12:21 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

I think all positionalities stem from instinct. So yes, morality is a product of instinct... just like immorality. Conflict!


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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OfflineLuueschen
Vampire


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 655
Loc: Southern CA Flag
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Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: Rahz]
    #15899060 - 03/04/12 12:59 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

sure, opinions on things like stealing and behaving well seem to come naturally


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OfflineDesert Elf

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 765
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: Rahz]
    #15899061 - 03/04/12 12:59 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

What's important here, is that you realise morality isn't a universal necessity which satisfies instinct.

I mean, it cant be argued that morality is somehow 'in our nature' even though our natural behaviour and language led to the creation of morality.

I could see that slipping in as an argument for morality but.. no way man.. not going to happen on my watch.

Whether one chooses to adhere to notions of morality comes down to ones judgement of the situation, will they be avoiding undesirable consequences or will they somehow benefit from it... thats all it comes down to.


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Om Bhur Bhuvah Svaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: Breadnbutterfly86]
    #15899200 - 03/04/12 01:32 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Breadnbutterfly86 said:
could morals have originated from instincts?




Perhaps in the sense that diamonds stem from carbon. Or perhaps in the sense that kinetic energy from a river can turn turbines, which are connected to dynamos that convert kinetic energy into electric energy, which then can be converted in electric heat, incandescent light, or cool fluorescent light. Fluorescent light has little in common, form-wise, with the Colorado River pouring through flood gates on Hoover Dam. Instinct and Intellect are two extremes of the Cephalo-Caudal spinal column. Human beings are not very instinctual creatures. We need to be taught through a variety of social learning and modeling techniques, because unlike say, ducklings, we don't 'imprint' very well either. Spiders don't 'learn' to spin webs. It is a direct manifestation of their nature to feed themselves. A baby left in the wild will perish, while a newborn rattlesnake can kill a man. We DO need education.

Moral Development as described by Lawrence Kohlberg is invariant, across some 300 different cultures. It is hard-wired, but as we all know, there can be mistakes made in wiring, which is where Antisocial Personality Disorder enters the broken picture.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleMafeki
Umadbro


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 3,884
Loc: Jamaica
Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #15899217 - 03/04/12 01:36 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

From someone not educated at all so I wouldn't take this too seriously: I tend to think that most of what we are and how we act stem from evolution you look at that and you can pretty much see why we act how we act now.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: Mafeki]
    #15899411 - 03/04/12 02:26 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

I would argue that morals are ultimately based on gut-level emotional judgments.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineBreadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 870
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: deCypher]
    #15899522 - 03/04/12 02:55 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

gut level? as in following the gut? if so, is this not an instinctual thing?


--------------------
"Don't just do something, stand there!" -Mr. Rabbit-

              Breadnbutterfly

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: Breadnbutterfly86]
    #15899628 - 03/04/12 03:30 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Well, an instinct is defined as an "inborn complex pattern of behavior that must exist in every member of the species and, because it is embedded in the genetic code, cannot be overcome by force of will".  Since we can override our moral emotional reactions to a situation, I wouldn't call them instinctual.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: Mafeki]
    #15899645 - 03/04/12 03:33 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Mafeki said:
From someone not educated at all so I wouldn't take this too seriously: I tend to think that most of what we are and how we act stem from evolution you look at that and you can pretty much see why we act how we act now.




"What do you mean, "we," Kimosabi?"


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: morals stemmed from instinct? [Re: deCypher]
    #15899745 - 03/04/12 03:55 PM (12 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I would argue that morals are ultimately based on gut-level emotional judgments.




Moral development proceeds incrementally by growing cognitive modifications. I do not know what you mean by "emotional judgements." Emotional development in the direction of compassion, and away from fear of punishment, demonstrates the differing stages of moral development. Some people have dropped Stage 6, but then again, near the end of his life, Kohlberg came up with a Stage 7 that was widely ignored. Stage 7 looked like cosmic compassion that flows from very high states of [Entheogenic consciousness]. Meanwhile, I subscribe to both Stages 6 & 7.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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