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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: angryshroom]
    #1602761 - 06/02/03 10:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I've never seen figures that say that manner of measuring and dating climatic changes is anything more than a general measure.

Can you provide any?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: angryshroom]
    #1602763 - 06/02/03 10:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Just look at LA...you go there, and you can SEE the smog. I'd go surfing out there and get out feeling like I just had smoked a pack of cigs.




Don't get me wrong, i'm in favor of cleaning up the environment (so is about 99.9999% of all humans) like LA through alternative sources but i don't like it when people feel the need to state that almost every human activity causes global warming when, like i said, is just as much evidence to the contrary.

Quote:

There are quite a few ways in determining climate changes since the beginning of time here on Earth.




You mean like the natural cycle of the Earth warming and cooling like it has done many times in its 4.5 billion years in existance? key word being natural. :smirk:

Quote:

But that really adds to determining that there have been climate changes and when they were.




noone is denying the cycles, and you in your own words have said this cycle is natural. (where does man fit in?)


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1602843 - 06/02/03 10:44 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You mean like the natural cycle of the Earth warming and cooling like it has done many times in its 4.5 billion years in existance? key word being natural.




Yes, exactly. There are climatic changes which occur naturally. However, over the past 150 years, since weather data has been around, and from the past 1,000 years of the cooler fluxuation change we have witnessed the warmest year. We are just speeding this fluxuation up.

There are fluxuations, but there has been a giant leap since the industrial revolution. What we are doing now will not be effecting the earth as much until another 50 years...from then it will still be 400 years until it gets better.

RIght NOW is just the time for change, yet people won't be changing their ways until it hits them in the back of the head. The global warming idea is also a great way to show to the average person that, hey we are actually doing things which are hurting our greatest mother...Its the easiest to see.

Global warming is just the least of our worries at this point .. :crazy: 


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Invisiblemantis
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: angryshroom]
    #1602886 - 06/02/03 11:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

global warming is real: this is a fact

it's fucking common-sense... the real question is this: how much do humans actually contribute to it? because it's a natural process we just make it worse...

nobody knows the answer to that question.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1602998 - 06/02/03 11:36 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It's very arrogant to think man can destroy the Earth.

Define "destroy the earth."


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: angryshroom]
    #1603027 - 06/02/03 11:47 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Our environmental recklessness comes to a head in our oceans. Those are really the earth's lungs. Right now about 25% of the world's coral reefs are dead. The trends continue. Unregulated activities such as logging and development lead to widespread erosion--siltification smothers reefs, and along with pollution, overfishing, and bleaching (rising sea temperatures kill corals) could wipe them out within the next century. Seems like a long time...

So, what then--no more snorkeling trips, right? No, when the coral reefs go at the lower level, and the top feeders at the upper level, oceanic eco-systems die, and drop out of the carbon cycle.

That may be all she wrote. To scoff the mounting evidence, and the increasingly unified opinion from science, is naive.

Angryshroom, I saw a really nice break in LA once--unfortunately it was right beside an oil refinery. Just west of the LAX. Crazy sight.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: hongomon]
    #1603089 - 06/03/03 12:13 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Speaking of which...

Australia closes off more of Great Barrier Reef

A good example of an issue where I acknowledge the need for regulations.

I think that a rotating system of fishing control would be better, especially where reef fish, which remain in a particular area for life, is concerned. The capacity of a reef, left alone, to recover over time, has been studied and documented.

Of course, Bob Brown is right that taking the other causes seriously--logging, agriculture, etc.--is just as important.


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Invisiblemantis
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: hongomon]
    #1603123 - 06/03/03 12:23 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the human race can destroy itself but life will go on... tiny lichens, roaches and other organisms will live and mutate and flourish


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Invisible1stimer
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1603148 - 06/03/03 12:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

take an arhgeaology class, youll learn that almost without exception that every civillization that doesnt exist today is due to over farming which caused erosion and the population dwindelled to almost zero untill everyone had to migrate elsewhere. Destruction of the environment has happened before and i guarantee it will happen again in america as long as capitalism has anything to say about it.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1603157 - 06/03/03 12:34 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I've never seen figures that say that manner of measuring and dating climatic changes is anything more than a general measure.

Can you provide any?



Tree rings and ice cores are pretty specific. Trees that overlap living trees lifetimes and were harvested and used in construction extend the time period you can investigate.


--------------------
Life is hard, you don't get a pidgeon all the time.


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1603220 - 06/03/03 12:52 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Global warning is what causes the coldest winter in washington

people with small mind think global warming means its gonna get hot everywhere.

global warming rasies the avarage temperature of the eath a fraction of a degree or so, causeing changes in air currents (streams in which air moves) which has profound effects on earths weather, resulting in more hurricians, melting icecaps, and colder winters.

there's more to it then that, but that's the premise of global warming, as it is caused by the greenhouse effect.


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1603231 - 06/03/03 12:55 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

noone is denying the cycles, and you in your own words have said this cycle is natural. (where does man fit in?)





if you wanna be stupid, then yes humans are natural, so yes everything that happens is natural.

but we're not talking about saving the earth, we're talking about saving the humans. If humans pollute the earth to a level where we cannot survive, nature will breakdown those toxians eventually, and new things will evolve. WHich is fine, but while i'm a human i'd like to avoid having to go through that kind of pain.


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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Invisiblemantis
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1603275 - 06/03/03 01:15 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

i can't believe you put the words "good article" and "ann coulter" in the same sentence :grin: 


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1603335 - 06/03/03 01:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

It's very arrogant to think man can destroy the Earth.

How do you work this one? Do you know that chainsaws exist? Do you know they can chop down trees? Do you know what happens to the earths ecosystem when the amazon rain forest is chopped down?

And that's just with the effect of a chainsaw - never mind pollution. Man can easily destroy the earth.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: Xlea321]
    #1603344 - 06/03/03 01:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"I'm sick and tired of all this back-slapping 'ain't humanity great' bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay?"--Bill Hicks


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: mantis]
    #1603655 - 06/03/03 05:40 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

global warming is real: this is a fact



Really? Must be great to be omnipotent and know all things.

There are probably as many scientists who say it isn't as there are who say it is. There is no overwhelming consensus.
And even among those who say there is global warming... there is no overwhelming consensus as to the major cause.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: falcon]
    #1603659 - 06/03/03 05:42 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

I've never seen figures that say that manner of measuring and dating climatic changes is anything more than a general measure.

Can you provide any?



Tree rings and ice cores are pretty specific. Trees that overlap living trees lifetimes and were harvested and used in construction extend the time period you can investigate.



Actually they are not specific. Unless perhaps you can provide a link to show they are?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: mantis]
    #1603661 - 06/03/03 05:43 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

i can't believe you put the words "good article" and "ann coulter" in the same sentence :grin: 



I can't (actually I can) believe you think I did. Nowhere did I write her name.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: 1stimer]
    #1603722 - 06/03/03 06:52 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

take an arhgeaology class,




No thanks, so what civilizations are you talking aboot?

Quote:

youll learn that almost without exception that every civillization that doesnt exist today is due to over farming




name one. you said that they destroyed their environment, NOT over farmed. Over farming is cured through crop rotation and doesn't "destroy" the land.

Quote:

which caused erosion and the population dwindelled to almost zero untill everyone had to migrate elsewhere.



are you blming this erosion entirely on these "past" civilizations? Migration is a natural occurance with both humans and animals.

Quote:

Destruction of the environment has happened before and i guarantee it will happen again in america as long as capitalism has anything to say about it.




destroyed by man or natural occurance? The Earth has been hit by life-ending comets, asteroids or other celestrial body. It seems your problem isn't so much with the people that oppose you rather your distain for capitalism.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (06/03/03 07:02 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Good article on global warming. [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1603726 - 06/03/03 06:58 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

if you wanna be stupid, then yes humans are natural, so yes everything that happens is natural




That's not what i meant...don't be stupid.

Quote:

If humans pollute the earth to a level where we cannot survive, nature will breakdown those toxians eventually,




who is advocating polluting the Earth? You people seem to think that those who think Global warming is a natural occurance (even though there is NO concrete proof that man is speeding it up) actually want to pollute and litter the Earth. That's just fucking stupid.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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