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Offlinerommstein2001
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The whole media/FCC thing
    #1586752 - 05/29/03 12:14 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I can't believe what I am hearing, you guys WANT big brother telling corperations what they can and cannot own? That is as totalitarian as a so-called democracy can get! If you don't want to hear one-sided stories, maybe you should go to the source, maybe some reporter resources, before the bias is added. Down with government control. Of course I don't know the whole subject, please correct me if this is not the case.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1586843 - 05/29/03 12:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

rommstein2001 writes:

I can't believe what I am hearing, you guys WANT big brother telling corperations what they can and cannot own? That is as totalitarian as a so-called democracy can get!

You'll see a lot of contradictory positions here -- get used to it.

Many on this board see no problem whatsoever with government restricting and/or eliminating freedoms, as long as it is not freedoms that they wish to exercise. Hence, one should of course have the freedom to smoke dope, or to marry someone of the same sex (both of which positions I agree with, by the way) but one should not have the freedom to defend one's family by owning a firearm, or to make one's living in a certain way.

Note that the freedoms being supported are in essence subsidiary issues (pertaining mainly to leisure-time activities) while those being ignored are fundamental (pertaining to survival).

Oddly enough, few here even recognize this disconnect, much less appear bothered by it.

I blame it on the poor quality of today's educational system. You may ascribe other causes to it. Fluoridated water? Microwaves beamed into the chips in their heads? Alien influence? A biased media?

I'd be interested to hear why you think this is so.

pinky


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Edited by pinksharkmark (05/29/03 12:44 AM)


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: Phred]
    #1587673 - 05/29/03 05:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Once again, we are treated with a gross over-simplification of a very complex issue, a la pinksharkmark. Tell me, is the monopolization of the media a subsidiary issue or a fundamental one?

My heart goes out to the owners and CEOs of the giant multinational corporations. However will they survive! Maybe we should start a fund for them.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: Phred]
    #1587733 - 05/29/03 05:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

My posistion is that if in the course of excercising their "freedom" they impinge upon the freedom of another then the original action needs to be looked at rather closely.

Death to either/or logic!  :grin: 


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Always Smi2le


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1588129 - 05/29/03 08:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

monopolies are illegal.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1588282 - 05/29/03 11:04 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Corporations have power, but it's a bit different from government power, yet it can be just as restricting, and pose just as much of a threat to your freedom.

Take, for example, the film industry. There are dozens of tiny independant film companies within the United States, all making movies, some good, some bad, and then there are a handful of huge production companies pumping out high budget pieces of shit.

Anyone without a more dedicated interest in film is only going to be exposed to the most mainstream movies, and will have his idea of what film is shaped by these movies. The same is true for dozens of other industries. The major networks have control over what news we are exposed to, the car companies have control over what we drive.

These corporations are huge, and governments will bend over backwards to give them what they want because a) they pump tons of money into our economies, and b) they have lots of money and connections.

If you gave corporations total freedom they would simply replace the government. They already govern us in an indirect way, just because they don't have police doesn't mean they don't have power.



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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: 1stimer]
    #1588387 - 05/29/03 12:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

monopolies are illegal.



Unless run by or granted by the government.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: Evolving]
    #1591933 - 05/30/03 02:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Monopolies are not neceserally illegal, just more tightly reglated. Hence utilities.

So what you are basicly saying is government control is okay, as long as it furthers your idealism? Sounds Very liberal minded to me. I'd expect nothing more, though.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1592059 - 05/30/03 04:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Unless you're an anarchist, you must acknowledge the need for some regulation. What do you think about media monopoly? IMO our media is already fucked. In a democratic experiment it's sort of our canary, you know?

Here's a list of Disney's ownings. How this list would change if the FCC regulations are loosened or thrown out is anyone's guess.

from http://www.cjr.org/owners/

Disney - Publishing

Book Publishing Imprints

Walt Disney Company Book Publishing
Hyperion Books
Miramax Books
Magazine Subsidiary Groups

ABC Publishing Group
Disney Publishing, Inc.
Diversified Publications Group
Financial Services and Medical Group
Miller Publishing Company

Magazine titles include :

Automotive Industries
Biography (with GE and Hearst)
Discover
Disney Adventures
Disney Magazine
ECN News
ESPN Magazine (distributed by Hearst)
Family Fun
Institutional Investor
Jane
JCK
Kentucky Prairie Farmer
Kodin
Top Famille - French family magazine
US Weekly (50%)
Video Business
Quality
Playboy (haha, just kidding with this one)


Disney - Broadcasting
(includes the Capital City/ABC subsidiary)

Television

ABC Television Network

Owned and Operated Television Stations

WLS - Chicago
WJRT - Flint
KFSN - Fresno
KTRK - Houston
KABC - Los Angeles
WABC - New York City
WPVI - Philadelphia
WTVD - Raleigh - Durham
KGO - San Francisco
WTVG - Toledo

Radio Stations

WKHX - Atlanta
WYAY - Atlanta
WDWD - Atlanta
WMVP - Chicago
WLS - Chicago
WXCD - Chicago
WBAP - Dallas
KSCS - Dallas
WDRQ - Detroit
WJR - Detroit
WPLT - Detroit
KABC - Los Angeles
KLOS - Los Angeles
KTZN - Los Angeles
KQRS - Minneapolis - St. Paul
KXXR - Minneapolis - St. Paul
KDIZ - Minneapolis - St. Paul
KZNR - Minneapolis - St. Paul
KZNT - Minneapolis - St. Paul
KZNZ - Minneapolis - ST. Paul
WABC - New York City
WPLJ - New York City
KGO - San Francisco
KSFO - San Francisco
WMAL - Washington DC
WJZW - Washington DC
WRQX - Washington DC
KQAM - Wichita
Radio Disney
ESPN Radio (syndicated programming)

Cable Television

ABC Family
The Disney Channel
Toon Disney
SoapNet
ESPN Inc. (80% - Hearst Corporation owns the remaining 20%) includes ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPN Now, ESPN Extreme
Classic Sports Network
A&E Television (37.5%, with Hearst and GE)
The History Channel (with Hearst and GE)
Lifetime Television (50%, with Hearst)
Lifetime Movie Network (50% with Hearst)
E! Entertainment (with Comcast and Liberty Media)
International Broadcast

The Disney Channel UK
The Disney Channel Taiwan
The Disney Channel Australia
The Disney Channel Malaysia
The Disney Channel France
The Disney Channel Middle East
The Disney Channel Italy
The Disney Channel Spain
ESPN INC. International Ventures
Sportsvision of Australia (25%)
ESPN Brazil (50%)
ESPN STAR (50%) - sports programming throughout Asia
Net STAR (33%) owners of The Sports Network of Canada

Other International Ventures
(all with minority ownership)

Tele-Munchen - German television production and distribution
RTL-2 - German television production and distribution
Hamster Productions - French television production
TV Sport of France
Tesauro of Spain
Scandinavian Broadcasting System
Japan Sports Channel
Television Production and Distribution

Buena Vista Television
Touchstone Television
Walt Disney Television
Walt Disney Television Animation (has three wholly owned production facilities outside the United States - Japan, Australia, Canada)
Disney - Movie Production and Distribution

Walt Disney Pictures
Touchstone Pictures
Hollywood Pictures
Caravan Pictures
Miramax Films
Buena Vista Home Video
Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Buena Vista International
Disney - Financial and Retail

Financial

Sid R. Bass (partial interest - crude petroleum and natural gas production)

Retail

The Disney Store
Disney - Multimedia

Walt Disney Internet Group

ABC Internet Group
ABC.com
ABCNEWS.com
Oscar.com
Mr. Showbiz
Disney Online (web sites and content)
Disney's Daily Blast
Disney.Com
Family.Com
ESPN Internet Group
ESPN.sportzone.com
Soccernet.com (60%)
NFL.com
NBA.com
NASCAR.com
Skillgames
Wall of Sound
Go Network
Toysmart.com (majority stake - educational toys)

Disney Interactive (develops/markets computer software, video games, CD-ROMs)

Music

Buena Vista Music Group
Hollywood Records ( popular music and soundtracks for motion pictures)
Lyric Street Records (Nashville based country music label)
Mammoth Records (popular and alternative music label)
Walt Disney Records
Disney - Theater and Sports

Theatrical Productions

Walt Disney Theatrical Productions (productions include stage version of The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, King David)

Professional Sports Franchises

Anaheim Sports, Inc.
Mighty Ducks of Anaheim (National Hockey League)
Anaheim Angels (25% general partner ownership - Major League Baseball)

Theme Parks & Resorts

Disneyland - Anaheim, CA
Disney -MGM Studios
Disneyland Paris
Disney Regional Entertainment (entertainment and theme dining in metro areas)
Disneyland Resort
Disney Vacation Club
Epcot
Magic Kingdom
Tokyo Disneyland (partial ownership)
Walt Disney World - Orlando, FL
Disney's Animal Kingdom
Disney - MGM Studios
Walt Disnery World Sports Complex (golf course, auto racing track and basball complex)
Disney Cruise Line
The Disney Institute

Other
TiVo (partial investment)



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OfflinePhred
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1592214 - 05/30/03 07:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

GazzBut writes:

My posistion is that if in the course of excercising their "freedom" they impinge upon the freedom of another then the original action needs to be looked at rather closely.

Upon whose freedom are the current owners of broadcast facilities impinging? Precisely how are they accomplishing this impingement?

In actual fact, it is the government (the FCC) restricting freedom here -- the freedom of whomever has the capacity and the desire to run a broadcasting facility to do so.

Death to either/or logic!

Either one wants the government to have the power to decide who is to be allowed to run a broadcasting facility or one doesn't. This is (of course) censorship, albeit once removed.

pinky


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1592527 - 05/30/03 11:01 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

So what you are basicly saying is government control is okay, as long as it furthers your idealism? Sounds Very liberal minded to me. I'd expect nothing more, though.



No I am not saying that. What I am saying is that government run or government granted monopolies are legal. Examples would be the post office and cable companies and certain other so-called 'natural monopolies.' I never stated this was okay as long as it furthers my idealism, where did you come up with this? I was merely responding to the earlier statement, "monopolies are illegal." I find it hypocritical that liberals and governments should be against monopolies and list all their reasons, but these reasons are ignored when the monopolies are controlled or granted by the government.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: hongomon]
    #1592582 - 05/30/03 11:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Here's a list of Disney's ownings. How this list would change if the FCC regulations are loosened or thrown out is anyone's guess.



So, what's wrong with that? Nobody's forcing me that utilize any of Disney's media outlets for my information, nor to utilize any of their entertainment venues. Are people too stupid to change the channel, turn off the TV or radio or search for their information on the Internet? NO.

The reason companies like Disney have successful franchises is that people CHOOSE to utilizes their services, if people's choices were different Disney would either see a decrease in revenue and/or change it's programming to better appeal to the tastes of the consumers. Their viewpoints aired would change or their revenues would diminish if they were not expressing what the public wanted to hear or see. I suspect that if Disney and Fox were expressing only liberal/socialist/PC views, that much of the hand wringing by people who hold these views would cease.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: hongomon]
    #1593114 - 05/30/03 02:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Not that I in any way, shape, or form am anti-Semetic, but if you'd liek to know who controls all of that Disney media outlet, I think you can find out pretty easily


Hint: Eisner :smile:

Jr


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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: Evolving]
    #1593438 - 05/30/03 04:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

In some countries, there's no denying, even by the people themselves, that the information the public receives is manipulated. In a "free" country, any manipulation is more subtle, and a lot of people assume their news source is a more or less accurate representation of what's going on, when it actually isn't. I don't know which is worse. "There's a Nazi potential in every country." (Willy Brandt)

Are people too stupid to change the channel, turn off the TV or radio or search for their information on the Internet? NO.

'Stupid' is the wrong word. Although fetal alcohol syndrome is a serious problem in some parts. The right word is 'ignorant.' We're all ignorant of some things, the question is how ignorant. The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) will decide if it will keep or abandon its rules limiting the number of stations (radio and television) a company may own in a given area. Unless it is very well publicized that [list all the various tv and radio stations, newspapers, and websites] are owned by [list the owner group, including all its subsidiaries (aka aliases)], people will be ignorant of their lack of diversity. And in their ignorance, they will be all the more easily manipulated into electing people like Bush and other neocons, not to mention their counterparts the neolibs, and supporting their foreign policies.

Of course, you're right that we commoners are a factor in all of this, and we have to shoulder some of the responsibilty, and ignorance can easily become a lame excuse. I'm pretty critical of the American, and other "free country" people myself. But I just don't go the free will route exclusively like you might. (I don't know, do you?)

In light of the problems I see with corporatism, I want the FCC regulations to stand. It sucks, because I don't care for my government, but in this case I see them as removing a restriction that should be there.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: Phred]
    #1593538 - 05/30/03 04:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Either one wants the government to have the power to decide who is to be allowed to run a broadcasting facility or one doesn't.

It's not that clear cut. This is more accurately about deciding when a certain person or group, in light of their current market holdings, can't own/run a certain broadcasting facility.

If only everything were so either-or.

This is (of course) censorship, albeit once removed.

No, that is not, of course, censorship, once or otherwise removed. I thought you were opposed to stretching words so much! In fact, the wisdom behind the regulations is to prevent a much more accurate notion of censorship, although not the limited one accepted by the U.S. supreme court.

story, in case anyone's interested.
another
and one more


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1594289 - 05/30/03 07:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Not that I in any way, shape, or form am anti-Semetic, but if you'd liek to know who controls all of that Disney media outlet, I think you can find out pretty easily


Hint: Eisner :smile:



I thought they got rid of guys like you at Nuremburg.  :confused:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: silversoul7]
    #1594545 - 05/30/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

silversoul - WAnt to have some more fun with media owners? See who owns the MTV studio's, and what his birthname was. It's great how you can state that the "media" is acting against american interests, but you just can't idenfity the bosses that contorl the media. Want a hint as to the MTV thing? Viacom owns MTV, as well as numerous other media outlets, check them out and see who runs it ;-) BTW< i'm not anti-semetic at all, nor do I think that their IS a media "conspiracy", but if you do think that, you have to admit, quite a few jews up there?

Jr


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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1594562 - 05/30/03 09:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It probably has to do with a Jewish cultural emphasis on education, rather than any conspiracy. Anyway, what do I care if the guys who own these companies are Jewish?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: silversoul7]
    #1594580 - 05/30/03 09:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know, you seemed to care enough to think that their was a conspiracy. I guarantee you if everyone of these people were, lets say, Southern Babtists, you'd be concerned tat they were spreading their distorted views of things. OK, since you didn't look it up, Sumner Redstone, birthname Murrah Rothstein. Do they culturally educate their children to have a predisposition towards media management? I think that Dr Spock woud like to see how that works. Do share with us.

Jr


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The whole media/FCC thing [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1594607 - 05/30/03 09:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I don't know, you seemed to care enough to think that their was a conspiracy.



What makes you say that?  The fact that you cared enough to point out that Eisner was Jewish makes you look incredibly racist(which, judging by your other posts, is undeniably true).  And Jews are disproportionately common in a lot of professions--not just media.  There are disproportionately high numbers of Jews who are lawyers, doctors, bankers, etc.  And guess what?  These are all HIGH-INCOME jobs, and people who are more educated are more likely to get these jobs.  It's not like every Jewish family raises their children to own a media corporation.  They raise them to get a good education so they can have successful careers.  BTW, Ted Turner IS Baptist, so perhaps the Baptists are spreading their distorted views in the media.  :smirk:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (05/30/03 09:37 PM)


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