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InvisibleRigVedaLXVII.Soma
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Registered: 11/21/11
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Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization
    #15813518 - 02/15/12 01:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Okay so I have some WBS soaking in a couple pots. In 24 hours of soaking the water has a nice microbial film growing on the surface. So I took a sample, make a slide, stained with FMC Brilliant Blue and took some micrographs and a video to show you guys the activity that is going on.

They are the best I can do, I don't have an immobilizing compound to keep them still, but then again why would I want to, to show that they are indeed living there needs to be movement.

Here is a Gif of some bacterial movement.


A video of Bacteria. Check out the one doing the spiraling funky chicken toward the bottom, and the two poking at each other at the top, when I move the view.


and Here are some germinating Endospores you definitely dont want.










Now if you dont let your grains soak, they will have bacterial and fungal spores that CAN survive even through pressure cooking. The key is to soak the grains and let the spores germinate to make them much weaker to actually kill them all off in the pressure cooking/autoclaving.

Dont let these little guys germinate days after you think your grains are completely sterile.
Happy Growing! :smile:


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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora

"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal

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InvisibleGotlib
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
    #15813539 - 02/15/12 01:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

dude this is fucking awesome and very interesting make more !!! for real

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Offlineindraclee
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
    #15813543 - 02/15/12 01:10 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

nice! What kind of microscope you rockin?


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Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.


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OfflineDrCrumbs
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: indraclee]
    #15813566 - 02/15/12 01:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Very cool and helpful. Do you think you could run these through at 1 hour, 1.5 and 2 hours and post images of the samples? That would be so cool!

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InvisibleRigVedaLXVII.Soma
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: DrCrumbs]
    #15813603 - 02/15/12 01:27 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah actually. That would be a great Idea. I will make up a small controlled amount of grain and do exactly that.

I need to think on it for maybe a day though. So I can figure a way to go about doing this with the best results and best presentation. Maybe put grains in a petri dish and observe that as time goes by. Thanks for the idea.

And the microscope I am using is a Biology 101 I got from a local college last year. They were selling a few at amazing prices, so I bought one up.

I also have an Amscope M148C that they have on sale for $89!!! right now. that's less than a 1/4 of the original price. That's a reason everyone with any interest in these fields should get one.

And I have one more, Swift M2250 which was my first scope I received, from a friend who was neglecting it by leaving it in a closet.


There is a whole world not visible to the eye, its like falling down the rabbit hole once you dip your toes in.

Glad you guys appreciated this thread. :smile:
Peace and Love.


--------------------
"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora

"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal

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Offlinecolax03
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
    #15813663 - 02/15/12 01:49 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

if i had a microscope i would definitely eat some mushies then look at shit like this haha. cool stuff man :thumbup:

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: colax03]
    #15813700 - 02/15/12 01:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I dig the thread.
But, you have to remember that when we PC grains for 90-120 minutes, they don't come out 100% sterile.
We're just giving our mushrooms a better fighting chance against the bacteria still present in the grains.
If we were to fully sterilize the grains, we'd have to PC for over 18 hours, which would turn the grains to mush.


--------------------
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"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
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"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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InvisibleRigVedaLXVII.Soma
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #15813900 - 02/15/12 02:47 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
I dig the thread.
But, you have to remember that when we PC grains for 90-120 minutes, they don't come out 100% sterile.
We're just giving our mushrooms a better fighting chance against the bacteria still present in the grains.
If we were to fully sterilize the grains, we'd have to PC for over 18 hours, which would turn the grains to mush.




Thanks.
And thanks for that bit of information. Didnt know that it would take over 18 hours to fully sterilize.
But would you agree that your fungi will have a better fighting chance after a soak to germinate some of the said contaminating bacterial and fungal spores and then sterilizing?

And PS. Im a big fan man, been checking out your threads for a while now. You are quite the experienced grower. :smile:

I am not much of a grower myself, as my house is a really old house which has had multiple floods and is mold ridden, so I always get contaminations. And I never really had the urge to grow much, I have to many passions of the natural world as it is. Plus I never owned a good pressure cooker until recently, So I am jumping back in to see if I can up my chances. No reason to give up.

I didnt make this thread to show my knowledge as an experienced grower [because I am not], I made this thread after I had the curiosity to see what was actually in that Microbial film layer that grows on the water surface after a grain soak. I just thought it would help to give people a slight visual representation of what is happening at the microscopic level when people on this forum do what they do best. Grow Dandy mushrooms! :smile:


All that being said, I am glad you mentioned that. Because that can be another variable in my upcoming experiment that was requested.

Now I will show the Microbial count hour by hour, then pressure cook it at the time suggested for mushroom growing substrate, and view that under the microscope to see the resulting microbial count, and do that hour by hour to see how much more grows after being "semi-sterilized".


Thanks TrancendingLife. I appreciate you chiming in. :smile:
Take care.


--------------------
"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora

"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal

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:peace: Solanaceae, Amanitaceae :peace:

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
    #15813935 - 02/15/12 02:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:kenthumbup:
Yes, soaking is necessary. I completely agree.
I don't soak for less than 16 hours.
Was just letting you know that it's not 100% sterilized.
I think a lot of people are under the assumption that the grains are 100% sterile, which they're not.
The soak does allow for more endospores to germinate, which allows for the intense heat of the PC to kill them off.

I'm excited to see your next experiment.
Keep up the good work.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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OfflineMerkel
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Registered: 01/18/12
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
    #15814507 - 02/15/12 05:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for this!

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OfflineCoolTJ
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Registered: 08/16/02
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Re: Why You Must Soak Your Grains Before Sterilization [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
    #15857623 - 02/24/12 01:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Do you think you could do the same with rye berries and millet?!
I would love to see that!!

Thanks, m8! for showing us!


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