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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: DeadHearts]
    #15852845 - 02/23/12 02:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You know what, I think the wacky evangelicals, like Santorum, get all the press.

Look at Romney.  He's probably more deeply religious than Santorum, but he doesn't impose or bully or judge or champion his personal beliefs--he represents his beliefs through his character, and he represents more than his own personal beliefs in the way he interacts with the public as a politician.  He comports himself with tolerance and acceptance of more than his own religion.  He doesn't deny his faith, he just doesn't use it, like Santorum, as political leverage over others, neither on the campaign trail or in office: Romney didn't when he governed in Massachusettes.

An argument might be, 'Well, he's got to act that way, otherwise he'll be smeared and trashed by the intolerant fundamentalist traditional Christians', but that doesn't matter.  Whatever his motivations, Romney chooses to act as a reasonable and tolerant person--and I note this speaking as a person who is strongly opposed to his politics.  All this being the case, Romney gets some press for the relative novelty of his sect, but Santorum draws much more press because Santorum pimps it and lords it.

I'm saying Romney is more representative of how Christians wear their faith than Santorum--quietly, and decently, with tolerance and love for others who disagree.  The TV gives you the wrong picture of religion in this country.

BTW, Seuss, I lived many years in a small town in southern Alabama, and I spent four years at (and graduated from) Auburn.  I know the South well, and that experience is definitely part of my assessment.


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Edited by Not Quite Social (02/23/12 02:43 PM)

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InvisibleNot Quite Social
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15852886 - 02/23/12 02:46 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

JohnM214,

Quote:

You say a lot of things here that don't seem to be very relevant.




I agree with you 100%.

It was the irrelavant, hateful nature of your post I addressed.


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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15852901 - 02/23/12 02:49 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
JohnM214,

Quote:

You say a lot of things here that don't seem to be very relevant.




I agree with you 100%.

It was the irrelavant, hateful nature of your post I addressed.





Man I have him on ignore fore a reason and now you post what he says lol

:wtfsonic:

Carry on...

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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Posts: 1,418
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: DeadHearts] * 1
    #15852926 - 02/23/12 02:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry :grin:


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OfflineBobTheFreemason
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15853090 - 02/23/12 03:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

He is bullet proof! The more time they give this man to talk the more people love him!

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InvisibleVahunter
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Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 313
Loc: Georgia
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: DeadHearts]
    #15854212 - 02/23/12 06:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Vahunter said:
He's the only one that hasn't stuck with the good ol boy politician ways of just telling the public what they want to hear to get votes. I'll vote democrat before I vote one of these fu@ktards in.





Dems and repubs are sides of the same coin and status quo.

If Paul does not win the nomination I will write him in.




That's a damn good idear.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15855068 - 02/23/12 09:29 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
You know what, I think the wacky evangelicals, like Santorum, get all the press.

Look at Romney.  He's probably more deeply religious than Santorum, but he doesn't impose or bully or judge or champion his personal beliefs--he represents his beliefs through his character, and he represents more than his own personal beliefs in the way he interacts with the public as a politician.  He comports himself with tolerance and acceptance of more than his own religion.




Okay, how does that represent a merit of the religion, or of the religious?

It seems you champion these acts exactly to the extent they aren't religious: you praise Romney to the extent he doesn't do as his god commanded, and criticize Santorum to the extent he follows god's commandments. It's hard to see how such things speak for religion- indeed they seem to endorse my views.  I imagine KKK members who don't follow or believe the teachings of the KKK's version of christianity and race are nice guys too, but I hardly see that as reflective of the tolerance of the KKK.

Santorum's actions in pushing his faith on people isn't simply a reflection of him, but is an act commanded by that very faith.  He's following god's commandments, how than can you excuse the faith and challenge the man when he's following the faith completely?

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
Matt 28:19

 
Quote:

He doesn't deny his faith, he just doesn't use it, like Santorum, as political leverage over others, neither on the campaign trail or in office: Romney didn't when he governed in Massachusettes.




How does that say anything about that faith? How can a faithful mormon not use his faith in his political campaign and office?  He is commanded to bear witness to Joseph Smith's revelations and to follow the word of god relayed through him in all his acts.  Again, you seem to endorse his faith to the extent he ignores and even violates it.

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
JohnM214,

Quote:

You say a lot of things here that don't seem to be very relevant.




I agree with you 100%.

It was the irrelevant, hateful nature of your post I addressed.




If your not going to discuss the matter and justify your points then stop parroting your conclusions.
Quote:

Vahunter said:
Quote:

DeadHearts said:
Quote:

Vahunter said:
He's the only one that hasn't stuck with the good ol boy politician ways of just telling the public what they want to hear to get votes. I'll vote democrat before I vote one of these fu@ktards in.





Dems and repubs are sides of the same coin and status quo.

If Paul does not win the nomination I will write him in.




That's a damn good idear.




Again, why would someone vote for a person who isn't running?  Does your state even count those votes?  Mine doesn't- they're simply trashed as an invalid ballot.

This Paul craze seems to be somewhat of a threat to the third parties who have been championing his positions long before and long after his recent republican candidacy campaigns.  To think that people are going to throw away their vote, or vote for a candidate nor running, is puzzling.  Its like people aren't aware that there's a bunch of candidates for executive offices every year who share libertarian views.

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InvisibleVahunter
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Posts: 313
Loc: Georgia
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: johnm214]
    #15855261 - 02/23/12 10:08 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It's about proving a point. I've always voted republican up to this point, but I can't vote for people who preach what I don't believe. I won't vote for Obama either, if the republicans lose than it will be their own fault. FYI- Paul was not my first choice, but the longer this goes on the more sense he starts making to me. I hope if you lose you remember the "Paul bots" you all bashed so much and probably lost many votes because of y'all and the media.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Vahunter]
    #15855555 - 02/23/12 11:10 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Huh?

I'm probably going to vote for paul- you know, in the race he's actually running in. 

My distaste for the bizzarre theocrazy appologists is all the more so because they descredit the ideas of Paul- just like my distaste for treating Paul like he's the only one who could possibly support libertarian principles in the country is because I favor those principles.  (and I'll probably vote for a libertarian nominee, which, I assure you, will loose regardless of what Paul does or does not do- especially since Paul won't be running in the presidential race)

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OfflineLloydChristmas
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: johnm214]
    #15855595 - 02/23/12 11:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Have you heard of Gary Johnson?  http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/

He's full blown Libertarian, much moreso than Paul.  He's running for president for the Libertarian Party.  If you're looking to cast a vote and not a write-in if Paul's not the nominee, Gary is your guy.  Yes I am on the Paul train, have been since before '08, but I wish Johnson was more publicly known.

Plus he climbed fucking Mt. Everest.


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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: LloydChristmas]
    #15860016 - 02/24/12 11:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Here's a fun read about the debate & state of the GOP.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/02/23-13


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OfflineBobTheFreemason
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15862443 - 02/25/12 04:07 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Everyone wants to keep discrediting Paul's chance to win the GOP but we don't have the delegate counts. Keep the faith! Ron Paul 2012:)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: BobTheFreemason]
    #15862779 - 02/25/12 05:50 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BobTheFreemason said:
... but we don't have the delegate counts.




What horrible misinformation.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/16/03
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: BobTheFreemason]
    #15862813 - 02/25/12 05:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Here's a clue: just because you really, really, really, really *want* something to happen doesn't mean it's *going* to happen.

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InvisibleVahunter
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Posts: 313
Loc: Georgia
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #15862818 - 02/25/12 05:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Are they there or not?

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15868243 - 02/26/12 10:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
You don't have to be a Christian to acknowledge the many valuable contributions of Christianity and Christian believers to US society





What has Christianity contributed to US society?

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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15868263 - 02/26/12 10:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
You don't have to be a Christian to acknowledge the many valuable contributions of Christianity and Christian believers to US society





What has Christianity contributed to US society?





Oh many things. Most if not all bad.

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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: DeadHearts]
    #15868428 - 02/26/12 11:10 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Alan, seriously?

Off the top of my head ...

Quakers, for example, contributed mightily to abolition of slavery and continue caring and advocating for the welfare of prisoners (and they make quilts, cream cheese & instant oatmeal--I joke).

Martin Luther King Jr.

Methodists, and other denominations, and Jews were important to the civil rights movement.

Thousands of schools, universities, hospitals, charities including
The Salvation Army and Catholic Charities and thousands of other ministries to the poor including orphanages and food pantries

Hymns & gospel which were the foundations for other great popular music genres

I'm sure I can think of more.  Can you concede this much good, which is substantial?

The Red Cross, for crying out loud.

What about the belief and personal significance of Christianity to millions of Americans?


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Edited by Not Quite Social (02/26/12 11:15 PM)

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InvisibleDeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15868443 - 02/26/12 11:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you do not need religion to any of that stuff...

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Arizona Debate (CNN) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #15868517 - 02/26/12 11:32 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Not Quite Social said:
Can you concede this much good, which is substantial?





Those things are good, but they have done so much bad also.

Making people feel guilty for using birth control. 

Making gays feel guilty.

Making people feel guilty for having abortions.

Electing conservative politicians.

And generally making the country a worse place for everyone.

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