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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis
    #1584263 - 05/28/03 09:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Two seemingly opposite avenues of self help
1. Self Hypnosis: using the power of suggestion to tell yourself who u are, strengthening the sense of self/ego, controling your self, so as u think so shall u be...
2. Mindfulness Meditation:letting everything (including yourself) be just as it is, no judgement or suggestion of any kind, losening the solidified sense of self and realizing it's ephemeral nature (i.e. there is no self), letting go, u are not your thoughts...

A friend of mine sez that ultimately mindfulness meditation etc is all hypnosis...
he sez NLP folks say that everything is hypnosis. I guess the argument is that for mindfulness meditation to be beneficial, u have to believe that it's beneficial, and that "belief" is hypnosis.

I'm not so sure, what do u think ?


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: lucid]
    #1584290 - 05/28/03 09:46 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

u must have noticed from my previous posts that I'm biased towards mindfulness meditation. Not exactly sure why. I guess it stems from my desire to believe that we have some "core of goodness" inside of us and that no matter how we've been conditioned by life we can always return to this core for peace. The idea that we might be able to let go and total chaos will not ensue appeals to me.


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: lucid]
    #1590790 - 05/29/03 10:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That's an interesting contrast. I don't know a great deal about hypnosis, but this is kind of how I think of each strategy. Hypnosis involves planting suggestions to counteract existing maladaptive beliefs, which give rise to some sort of suffering. In meditation, with the goal of letting go of the self, realizing oneness, emptiness and other Buddhist ideas one tries to transcend that whole "I am a person with beliefs that I must validate to feel good about myself" game.


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: lucid]
    #1592273 - 05/30/03 08:31 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

scientific studies of ASCs indicate that there are differences between hypnotic "trances" and meditative states, as well as between "yogic" and "zen" meditative methods... (charles tart's book "altered states of consciousness" has several useful articles, as does a "scientific american" reprints book...)
for a very interesting series of exercises combining hypnoid states and meditative states, see masters & houston's _mind games_ or _listening to the body_, or perhaps laura huxley's _you are not the target: recipes for living and loviing_
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: gnrm23]
    #1592478 - 05/30/03 10:37 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hey gnrm23,
Much thanks for the references :smile:
I'm already researching Tart's bks on Amazon and
hope to glean through em at the bk store this weekend.
I'm very curious about the seemingly disparate mechanisms
of open meditation and suggestive self hypnosis.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: lucid]
    #1592492 - 05/30/03 10:45 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

BTW, My shrink told me to stay away from meditation... appalled I asked her why, and she clarified that she meant "trance meditation" practices, and that "mindfulness meditaiton" was OK...
sigh, anyways, she scared me with her biased but professional opinion. I've never done any trance meditation and have no desire to, but my shrinks admonitions scared me into suspecting even mindfulness meditation...
lately, any time my mind quiets down, I wonder if I'll go nuts and start
to panic  :frown:
A friend of mine who's studying psychology and meditates sez to ignore
my shrinks advice, but it's a bit tough. I've read about rather unpleasent
Kundahali (spel ?) awakenings too, so I'm worried about my meditation
practice. I'd like to continue since I've found it to be very positive in the past,
but I don't want to end up a vegetable or in a straight jacket in some remote
asylum (yup, I'm exagerting, but it still concerns me at the back of my mind).


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


Edited by lucid (05/30/03 12:28 PM)


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: lucid]
    #1592861 - 05/30/03 01:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i wouldn't force anything


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: Grav]
    #1593006 - 05/30/03 02:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

>i wouldn't force anything
do u mean forcing meditation practice ?
I'd never force it, I feel like it's the one thing I can
do to deal with a severe shroom spawned depression,
it give me some relief to practice, even if I feel worse
observing the depression...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: lucid]
    #1593030 - 05/30/03 02:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

yea, I mean feeling like "I HAVE to do this... i HAVE to center myself or else"
meditation shouldn't be an escape.. it should be somewhere you choose to go

but that's pretty obvious i guess


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Mindfulness Meditation vs Self Hypnosis [Re: Grav]
    #1593049 - 05/30/03 02:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

>meditation shouldn't be an escape.. it should be somewhere you choose to go
absolutely, I don't think I can escape since my syptoms are very severe. I
choose to meditate over them, instead of distracting myself by eating,
running away etc. Besides I can't seem to distract myself anyways since
I feel really awful, so I might as well learn to "be with the feeling" so to speak...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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