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OfflineDailyPot
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Registered: 11/17/02
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Why do shrooms make you trip?
    #1584122 - 05/28/03 06:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Not like do they make your brain bleed or anything like that cuz I understand that part but why do the mushrooms produce the chemical that makes you trip?

Like cacti produce mescline for their immune system or atleast thats what believed. But what is the purpose of the shrooms producing them?

I woke up with this question in my head but so I didn't want to wait till later to post it. Sorry, my morning posts never have good spelling :crazy:


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InvisibleSHiZNO
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Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 1,467
Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: DailyPot]
    #1584198 - 05/28/03 08:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i always thought they attracted little pink fairies that would fly around inside your head sprinkling pixie dust on your brain


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InvisibleOctopusDr
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Registered: 02/03/03
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1584210 - 05/28/03 08:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think it is a defense mech for the mushroom.


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? *DELETED* [Re: OctopusDr]
    #1584320 - 05/28/03 10:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: DailyPot]
    #1584463 - 05/28/03 11:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think cacti produce mescaline for their immune system or protection from predators. If that was the case the younger more suculent cacti (that animals/insects are likely to attack and eat) would contain the most mescaline - not the 25 year old cacti. Young cacti contain hardly any mescaline.

I think just like some plants produce food for our bodies, some produce food for our minds.


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InvisibleSHiZNO
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Registered: 03/14/03
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1584486 - 05/28/03 11:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

does anyone think that 'manna' in the bible means magic mushrooms?


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Offlinetooky
ol' smokeyglazed eyes

Registered: 04/22/03
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1584491 - 05/28/03 11:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

^^^

I think he was looking for an evolutionary reason for mushrooms to develop that contain psychedelic substances.

I'd say a defence mechanism is a reasonable assumption.


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Anonymous

Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: tooky]
    #1584508 - 05/28/03 12:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

well if it is a defence mech its not working very well...maybe they produce it cause if they do the species will be kept around...humans cultivate it...and cows spread em around by eating the shrooms and pooping out the spores as well


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Offlinenfshroomer
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: tooky]
    #1584511 - 05/28/03 12:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Considering the fact that most animals will NOT self-administer hallucinogens, I'd say that psilocybin is a pretty darn good defence mechanism. If an animal tries it once, it'll never go back, since psilocybin (and all classical hallucinogens, for that matter) are aversive in animals and will serve as negative reinforcers.


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: ]
    #1584606 - 05/28/03 01:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

well if it is a defence mech its not working very well...maybe they produce it cause if they do the species will be kept around...humans cultivate it...and cows spread em around by eating the shrooms and pooping out the spores as well




Many botanical species have chemicals in them that serve as a defense mech against speices that eat them. For example nicotine and cafene. These chemicals aren't used to ward off humans, but rather to detour insects. Plants ands insects are locked in a never ending "arms race." The plants are evloving methods to detour insects from feeding on them and the insects are evolving methods to "trump" the plants' defense mechs. But it's tough to say whether or not psilocin and or psilocybin is used as a detourent. On the other hand, many botanical species produce chemicals that attract insects to them to aid the plant in reporduction. In my studies I never remember encoutnering any publications that showed research on fungi and their defense mechanism against insects. My knowleege isn't well versed in mycology. I just know the fundamentals from the biological stand point. I am an Ecologists/Wildlife biologist. Perhaps the correct person to ask is Mr. Allen.

As for psilocin and psilocybin used for spore production... I would think that to be highly unlikely. Since there are thousands of species of fungi that produce spores and only a handfull produce psilocybin/psilocin, I would have to rule that hypothesis out. Just because the production of the chemicals ceases after the mushrooms drops it spores doesn't prove anything in the case of psilocybin/psilocin for spore production. If you think about it, that could very well support the defense mechanism hypothesis more. The mushrooms only has one purpose, reproduction. Once the fruits have matured and dropped their spores the mushroom has no more active function for the fungus, thus the production of psilocybin/psilocin would be a waste of valuable resourse and engery for the fungus. It just needs the mushroom long enough to reproduce, after that it doesn't matter if the mushroom is consumed or not by the insects, thus the defense is dropped.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: nfshroomer]
    #1585186 - 05/28/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Considering the fact that most animals will NOT self-administer hallucinogens, I'd say that psilocybin is a pretty darn good defence mechanism. If an animal tries it once, it'll never go back, since psilocybin (and all classical hallucinogens, for that matter) are aversive in animals and will serve as negative reinforcers.

Not sure about this. There was a recent article where sheep in scotland enjoyed eating magic mushrooms so much they would eat them to the exclusion of all other food sources.

And this doesn't address the hallucinogenic alkaloids in cacti. Young cacti - which are the most vulnerable to predators - contain no mescaline.


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1585206 - 05/28/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

gusse you've never seen a cow eating shrooms huh?


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Offlineshroomatter
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Registered: 05/28/03
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: DailyPot]
    #1585244 - 05/28/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

long story short...
shrooms were genetically engineered by a super race from outerspace to expand consciousness, then blasted to earth


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OfflineDailyPot
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: shroomatter]
    #1586242 - 05/28/03 09:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

If it were for defense shouldn't it be abit more poisionous?? There are tons of plants that will make you trip while they kill you, I think this would be a better idea for the mushrooms to develop, and probably easier to evolve, poision seems to have become a popular thing with plants trying to survive.

Other mushroom species have gone poisionous and it seems to work well for them...

You know how alot of plant get all bright and multi-colored because in the animal world that means they're poisionous? Wouldn't it be cool if psychedelic mushrooms did the samething to trick animals into not eating them? So all the tripping shrooms would be all swirly and exotic colored? :grin:


Edited by DailyPot (05/28/03 09:34 PM)


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: DailyPot]
    #1586392 - 05/28/03 10:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It all depends on what the defense is aimed to fight. What may be posionus to one species might not do anything to another. Caffeine is a toxic alkaloid in plants that wards off insects but is only a mild stimulant to humans. Thus, even though many different organisms may feed on mushrooms, the toxins are only specifically aimed at a certain orgainisms. Typically the organism that presents problems for the fungi's reproductive process.


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Anonymous

Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: djd586]
    #1586461 - 05/28/03 10:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

good point dj


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Offlinenfshroomer
NewfoundlandShroomer

Registered: 09/22/02
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: DailyPot]
    #1586473 - 05/28/03 10:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Alex123 and gdman420: To be fair, I did make a point of saying MOST animals. Cows and sheep have some pretty marked differences in their digestive systems from most other mammals which could possibly allow for the digestion of psilocybin-containing mushrooms without their "negative" effects... this would make sense to their apparent symbiotic relationship as well, since for a lot of mushrooms (cubensis and semilanceata come to mind), cows are a prime means of propagation. This whole thing is out of my area of expertise, however, so I'm just kinda throwing ideas out there.

I was referring in my last post, of course, to laboratory testing, in particular with rats and monkeys. I did a course in behavioral pharmacology, where I was amazed to learn that the so-called classical hallucinogens (LSD, psilocybin, mescaline) are some of the very few drugs that act as negative reinforcers. Animals simply refuse to self-administer these drugs in a lab. I'd love to find you a paper that talks about this, but I'm too lazy, google is too inefficient, and I sold my text.

I'm not making the argument that production of these drugs can solely be explained in this fashion (ie. mescaline in young cacti). But it's an idea with merit, based on the meagre amount of knowledge I have in the area of behavioral pharmacology, IMHO.

Dailypot: there are plenty of defence mechanisms in nature that don't use poison. There's no reason to think that all related species will develop the same defence mechanisms. That being said, though, just because it doesn't kill you doesn't mean it's not poison... can't psilocybin be considered a toxin on some level?


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: nfshroomer]
    #1586534 - 05/28/03 11:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

nfshroomer, I understood your point the first time. It was a good one. Don't let other people distract you from laying down an idea. And don't miss your oppertunity to enlighten yourself through misunderstanding.


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? *DELETED* [Re: djd586]
    #1586673 - 05/28/03 11:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

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OfflineDailyPot
Trip'n Time

Registered: 11/17/02
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Re: Why do shrooms make you trip? [Re: poke smot!]
    #1586739 - 05/29/03 12:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think they eat shrooms also but maybe not on purpose.


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