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InvisibleCapers
Man About Town
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Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 16,388
Loc: United States Flag
Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: Maverick]
    #15818004 - 02/16/12 10:17 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
lol, 500 million will be enough to supply them indians with unlimited alcohol to help 'curb' their addiction.

This is a shame to all native Americans, this tribe makes them look bad, makes them look like alcoholics who have no control over their lives and can't seem to make any correct judgement on their own.  What a shitty image to portray upon native Americans.  Dumb ass Sioux.


And the "native americans are not educated about the dangers of alcohol' thing is a bunch of horseshit.  Literally.  Those guys have flatscreen TVs and nice cars parked in their run-down government subsidized houses.  They usually even have cable.  It isn't like they aren't educated or offered the ability to be educated....  (I've done quite a bit of volunteering as a youth, travelled throughout the plains and such helping fix up houses for tribes, and a lot of it really came down to the way the Individual CHOSE to live).


Quote:

zappateer said:
Of course anyone could observe immediate behavioral effects from alcohol, but why would anyone infer that it causes brain defects in fetuses?




Did you step out of a delorean or something?  This isn't the 1980's anymore... Long term affects of alcohol are well-known in society.  Hell, back in the 80's and 90's they had giant campaigns going on about FAS, every low-income poor community was plastered with FAS campaign signs and condom campaign signs.  (That includes native communities)




Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's obvious to those who have been educated on the matter,. I didn't realize this community was included in that category.

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InvisibleMeteloides
Clinically Expressed


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 2,187
Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: Capers]
    #15820142 - 02/16/12 06:49 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

They should just switch em over to heroin. It'll at least be easier on their unborn. And they won't have as many unwanted births from drunken sex. :shrug:


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:smoking:

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OfflineShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 4,435
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Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: Leon Ferrum] * 1
    #15823463 - 02/17/12 01:52 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Leon Ferrum said:
A living reality that they can walk away from at any second.  They chose not to.




This is the same out of touch assumption that white people often make about lower income black kids. People can leave the ghetto or leave the rez but given the socioeconomic strata they find themselves trapped in by birth it's not as simple as just walking out. Not to mention the deep psychological conditioning that comes with that kind of life. The odds are extremely against them. Some people have nothing- no skills, no money, no education and nowhere to go. I'm sure given the "choice" most people would not want to be born into or live on the rez however many of them simply don't have that option to just walk away or are too broke to survive elsewhere. The children and the elderly damn sure don't have the luxury of just walking away.


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Invisiblemaug
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Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,703
Loc: inside you
Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #15824295 - 02/17/12 05:22 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

I wasn't going to post in this unless someone brought the thread back.

How do you know they don't use a traditional midwife? If they could just go to the doctor, I don't think native americans would have twice as many stillborn as whites, who in general are able to just go to the doctor. They also wouldn't state that they need the $500M for "healthcare, social services and child rehabilitation." I trust they have a better perspective than you or me. Still, I only brought up fetal alcohol syndrome as one example of something that you take for granted, and that is simple not available to everyone in the world. There is no questioning that Native Americans have the worst living conditions of any ethnic group in the US. Especially Oglala.

None of this matters though, because they won't get any of that money. It is very hard to sue a multi-million dollar corporation that can afford the best lawyers. But they have already won by making their need public. This is how Big Tobacco started funding anti-smoking education programs. It wasn't from court, it was their public image.


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I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes

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InvisibleCapers
Man About Town
Male

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 16,388
Loc: United States Flag
Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: maug]
    #15824496 - 02/17/12 06:02 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

^^ here, here

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OfflineLeon Ferrum
environmentalist know-it-all
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 335
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #15831308 - 02/19/12 09:10 AM (12 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

maug said:
How do you know they don't use a traditional midwife? If they could just go to the doctor, I don't think native americans would have twice as many stillborn as whites, who in general are able to just go to the doctor.



If you are a midwife, you should know what FAS is.  It is also ridiculous to say that whites can "just go to the doctor" and for some reason other people cannot. 

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

Leon Ferrum said:
A living reality that they can walk away from at any second.  They chose not to.




This is the same out of touch assumption that white people often make about lower income black kids. People can leave the ghetto or leave the rez but given the socioeconomic strata they find themselves trapped in by birth it's not as simple as just walking out. Not to mention the deep psychological conditioning that comes with that kind of life. The odds are extremely against them. Some people have nothing- no skills, no money, no education and nowhere to go. I'm sure given the "choice" most people would not want to be born into or live on the rez however many of them simply don't have that option to just walk away or are too broke to survive elsewhere. The children and the elderly damn sure don't have the luxury of just walking away.




This is america.  I know people who cannot read who work full time jobs.  If you have the competency to file a lawsuit, you should have the competency to improve your situation.

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,267
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: Leon Ferrum]
    #15831433 - 02/19/12 09:48 AM (12 years, 14 days ago)

In one story, a faithful shepherd is told that he may take the striped and speckled offspring of the farmer's goat herd. When it is time for them to mate, he makes sure that they see sticks, carved with striped and speckled shapes. He makes sure that they drink the imagery in, by placing them in the water, so that they will have more babies, which look this way.

Now, consider the effects of alcohol on a grown adult.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-term_effects_of_alcohol

Let's assume that we're dealing with literal savages, here, rather than intelligent, modern adults. Would superstition lead you to believe in something like fetal alcohol syndrome.

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Invisiblemaug
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Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,703
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Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: Leon Ferrum]
    #15831887 - 02/19/12 12:00 PM (12 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Leon Ferrum said:
Quote:

maug said:
How do you know they don't use a traditional midwife? If they could just go to the doctor, I don't think native americans would have twice as many stillborn as whites, who in general are able to just go to the doctor.



If you are a midwife, you should know what FAS is. It is also ridiculous to say that whites can "just go to the doctor" and for some reason other people cannot.




Right, cause they learn about all that in med school. Way to not talk about my point too.

And like, all those starving kids in Africa? Why don't they just, like, go to the grocery store? You know? Like, their parents can't buy them anything? *Twirls luscious blond curly locks of hair with finger*


--------------------
I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes

Edited by maug (02/19/12 12:36 PM)

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OfflineLeon Ferrum
environmentalist know-it-all
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Registered: 09/01/09
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Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: maug]
    #15832150 - 02/19/12 01:02 PM (12 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

maug said:
Quote:

Leon Ferrum said:
Quote:

maug said:
How do you know they don't use a traditional midwife? If they could just go to the doctor, I don't think native americans would have twice as many stillborn as whites, who in general are able to just go to the doctor.



If you are a midwife, you should know what FAS is. It is also ridiculous to say that whites can "just go to the doctor" and for some reason other people cannot.




Right, cause they learn about all that in med school. Way to not talk about my point too.

And like, all those starving kids in Africa? Why don't they just, like, go to the grocery store? You know? Like, their parents can't buy them anything? *Twirls luscious blond curly locks of hair with finger*




Have you ever drank alcohol?  In the United States every alcohol bottle has a warning label on it warning you not to drink if you are pregnant.    I understand that some people are never taught to read, but I suspect that most girls at least have someone that cares about them that can read.  You would have to be incredibly ignorant to not know that alcohol causes birth defects, especially if you were a midwife.  That would be the equivalent of a truck driver claiming that he did not know that drinking and driving was illegal.

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Invisiblemaug
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Posts: 1,703
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Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: Leon Ferrum]
    #15832346 - 02/19/12 01:47 PM (12 years, 14 days ago)

I would agree with you, that it's and individual choice and therefore it's their own fault, if I thought alcohol was a harmless drug. For instance, I think anyone who says pot ruined their life was probably just a loser to begin with. It's just the first thing that happened to them, and if it wasn't pot it would have been cheeseburgers or scratch tickets because they are a moron and need to fail at something in life. Pot only made them a stoned moron, but you can't blame a shitty life on something that makes you healthy, happy, hungry, and horny.

Alcohol is a far worse drug than pot though. It makes you not give a fuck about anyone, has physical dependance, dozens of associated health risks, and can lead people on a downward spiral even if they started off at the top. I think you can blame a shitty life on a drug that does that.

And in any case, why would you care more about the Guinness family than a group of people who have the worst living conditions in the US?


--------------------
I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes

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OfflineLeon Ferrum
environmentalist know-it-all
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Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 335
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse [Re: maug]
    #15835438 - 02/19/12 11:25 PM (12 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

maug said:
And in any case, why would you care more about the Guinness family than a group of people who have the worst living conditions in the US?




Because I am not bias.  I do not judge people by economic class, but by moral standards.  A bunch of rich jerks would lose money if the tribe here won the lawsuit, and a bunch of poor people with who's relatives were screwed over would benefit. But that does not mean that it would be fair for them to win.

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