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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps?
    #1580506 - 05/27/03 01:56 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineMurex
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1580521 - 05/27/03 01:59 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)


Huh?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Murex]
    #1580535 - 05/27/03 02:01 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

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InvisibleAdom
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1580844 - 05/27/03 07:15 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I'm a believer in those words, tho I must say I don't have pure faith in the entire bible.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1581103 - 05/27/03 10:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Faith is the stuff hate is made of.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1581252 - 05/27/03 11:27 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

hey Enter its OK to turn away from a "faith" such as that... Its never too late to admit to yourself "hmm maybe I just got suckered into this.."


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Offlineskiddlincat
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Strumpling]
    #1582936 - 05/27/03 09:38 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: skiddlincat]
    #1582948 - 05/27/03 09:42 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

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Offlineskiddlincat
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: World Spirit]
    #1582957 - 05/27/03 09:44 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: skiddlincat]
    #1582975 - 05/27/03 09:48 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1583027 - 05/27/03 10:01 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I would say Faith is like believing with all your life that an orange is in there when the jerk holding the bag won't let you look in it, keeps pulling it aside when you reach for it, and you think it kind of smells like apples. Because the guy just told you THERE'S AN ORANGE IN THAT BAG BY GOD AND YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT OR YOUR SOUL WILL BE DESTROYED. - Citrusians 5:23

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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Xibalba]
    #1583032 - 05/27/03 10:02 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Xibalba]
    #1583814 - 05/28/03 01:51 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

lol that was cool :smile:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: World Spirit]
    #1583915 - 05/28/03 02:16 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Enter: 38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.


How do you know what is meant by the term "soul"?
Did the bible ever come with a glossary? Cuz that'd be convenient.

Maybe the faith the author of the passage is talking about is faith in SELF. Preserving the SELF while keeping the ego at bay. I like that better. Maybe God = SELF... mindfulness... enlightenment... bah! What are you talking about, Sclorch? THAT'S BLASPHEMY!! Oh... right... so sayeth the shepherd, so sayeth the flock... gotcha... *sigh*



Xibalba- that was funny.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Xibalba]
    #1584738 - 05/28/03 11:38 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I would not accept that kind of faith. There is always some evidence for the Believer. Without that it wouldn't be faith or more accurately it would be "blind faith". Just the thing robots and idiots are made of. The orange analogy is an apt one.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: ]
    #1585073 - 05/28/03 01:05 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

So there is tangible evidence for the existence of God?

I don't think so.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1585163 - 05/28/03 01:40 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

depends, ONCE AGAIN, on one's definition of "God."

what a bloated, over-inflated, over-used, over-defined word.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1585487 - 05/28/03 03:46 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

That about sums it up Strumpling!

Again going to the "orange in a bag" example... if your so-called faith is so "strong" that you are impelled to reach into a bag and pull out an orange simply because so many people have agreed that it IS an orange in the bag, then your faith is greatly misplaced.

It's like a post above, I can't recall who said it, but you can only really have faith in yourself. Faith, to me, is about understanding something which can't be materially proven, but intuitively and instinctually "detected", in a manner of speaking. With the right thought and feeling-processes, it is capable to prove something to yourself without the necessity of scientific data or hard-evidence.

You might be disappointed after hearing all the hype about the delicious orange inside the paper bag... but if you continue to reach for that bag, neclecting to use your intuition and natural sixth sense, you may be severely dissapointed when you don't pull out anything but a steaming, well-stewed fistfull of grade-A BULLSHIT.


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.

Edited by Amnesiac (05/28/03 03:47 PM)

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Xibalba]
    #1585949 - 05/28/03 05:42 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I would say Faith is like believing with all your life that an orange is in there when the jerk holding the bag won't let you look in it, keeps pulling it aside when you reach for it, and you think it kind of smells like apples. Because the guy just told you THERE'S AN ORANGE IN THAT BAG BY GOD AND YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE IT OR YOUR SOUL WILL BE DESTROYED. - Citrusians 5:23

Why would anyone want an orange? God and oranges? Talk about apples and oranges.


--------------------

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OfflineZahid
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1585960 - 05/28/03 05:45 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Again going to the "orange in a bag" example... if your so-called faith is so "strong" that you are impelled to reach into a bag and pull out an orange simply because so many people have agreed that it IS an orange in the bag, then your faith is greatly misplaced.

Perhaps, through certain means of demonstration many are given a peek of the orange. A reminder, that the orange is there.


--------------------

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1586861 - 05/28/03 10:45 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

That depends on how one defines "God." The first line of Martin Heidegger's 'An Introduction to Metaphysics,' that I have remembered for 30 years is "Why are there essents ['existents' or 'things that art'] rather than nothing?"

For Freud, as soon as one asks ultimates 'whys,' one is immediately deemed neurotic. For the religious mind, this is the fundamental question, and the equally fundamental (not Fundamentalist) answer is God. However, the word God for a philosophical and existentialist theologian like Paul Tilich (the "Ground of Being"), or for John Shelby Spong, who has been influenced by Tillich, is markedly different from a modern person who tries to keep alive the paternalistic tribal deity of the ancient Hebrews - an anthropomorphic tyrant who could divide the Red Sea 'with a mighty blast from His nostrils.' An existentially grounded theology easily, and naturally says that yes, of course God is tangible in ANY of the tiniest, infinitesimal degree of matter, or energy or space-time.

The VERY FACT of existence immediately infers origination, both in a linear or chronological sense, as well as in the sense of immediacy - the eternal present - the transcendental and ungraspable from which existence emerges in each gigasecond. If you must follow your sensate typological tendencies, you might have to follow this thinking in a chronological sense back to 10 to the minus 43rd second of the Big Bang, but the eternality whence that singularity emerged is Present to the religious mind, as Presence - perhaps like background microwave radiation is still perceptible from the specific moment of the Big Bang.

Walking out of an Indian restaurant on my birthday in Concord, New Hampshire about 11 years ago, with a childhood friend, trained in astrophysics and geophysics, a synchronicity occurred. We had been arguing from his physics point of view, and my metaphysics point of view. My argument was to say that the religious mind was an Intuitive grasp, while the scientific mind was the Sensate grasp of the same phenomenon (I am an INTP and he is an ISTJ according to the MBTI). Being an Intuitive, I make connections like this, he does not. As we left the restaurant, the car parked right in front, facing us, had a license plate that said COSMOS. We were stunned, laughed and marvelled at that before walking a block, at which point another license plate caught my eye - MYTHOS. These words symbolized his point of view and mine, respectively. This time, the synchronicity completed was multiplied subjectively so that it literally wasn't funny. We were shocked wordless, which is rare for us when we see each other. At moments like this, I see God.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1587426 - 05/29/03 02:13 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Markos: For Freud, as soon as one asks ultimates 'whys,' one is immediately deemed neurotic.

Really?
Yet another reason for me to dislike Freud...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1588073 - 05/29/03 05:49 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Because in attempting to preserve the air-tightness of his reductionism to impersonal physical processes, there could be absolutely no meta-motives - no ultimate 'meaning' implicit in existence. We are merely the evolutionary result of biological processes that are 'ultimately' derived from chemical and physical principles. Pure materialism, though without a modern cosmology (Big Bang) which would remind Freud of the question "Why are there essents rather than nothing?" A Steady State cosmology for Freud allowed him to [unconsciously] make infinite duration god enough for anything to develop out of pure chance - not that 13.7 billion years isn't long enough - but with no decisive moment of creation, the question of Whence was not addressed (not to mention Whom).

It wasn't an Alan Watts Zen 'This Is It' sense for Freud. The "This" for Watts was creation taken in a non-dualistic Way, with BEING just shouting from existence. In other words, the Numinous, the Spiritual, the Divine - whatever one chooses to refer to the experience of the Ground of Being, the Isness of existence - was absent in Freud. I can scarcely remember how I once saw life like this. Only a powerful sci-fi movie can sometimes convey to me a totally godless existence. Things have never been quite the same since my first significant dose.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Shrinking back from God ? Perhaps? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1588136 - 05/29/03 06:52 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Too many people passed the orange bag around and banged it up.. now it's all slimey and rotted... nobody took time to understand what was in the bag and how they should go about interacting with it.. they just wanted to feel it so badly because everyone else did.. it was one big orange orgy.

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