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Lepista Nuda
    #15786545 - 02/10/12 01:25 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hello all,

I have tried a couple of times to get L. nuda to colonize a filter patch
bag with a compost like sub two times and have not gotten good results.
(failed to colonize)

One thing that I have noticed is that on agar it seems to turn black as
it matures.  I put agar on grains and got strong colonization, with the
grains looking like cheetos bits (very orange and colorful).

...but the spawn jars consistently began to look discolored, wet, and
rotten at the bottom of the quart jars. 

It seemed that I had a ride-along bacterial infection going on.

This last pass, I put it onto anti-biotic agar, but I am seeing
similar looking growth:


I made transfers to fresh, non anti-biotic, agar from the clean and
white leading edge, so we will see where that goes.

Has anyone else seen this?

Please chime in with any special needs of L. nuda, and thank you for the time!

JD

P.S. An earlier agar shot, posted months ago:


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15786945 - 02/10/12 03:36 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hey JD,

good luck! So far all my experiments ended up rotting.

I think the color changes on Agar depends on strain and nutrients. However, it is very difficult to keep L. nuda mycelium happy. A compost or manure based substrate should be fine, but always take great care that it is on the dry side and enough oxygen is provided. For grain spawn I had better results when mixing in some compost.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15787695 - 02/10/12 09:54 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
Hey JD,

good luck! So far all my experiments ended up rotting.

I think the color changes on Agar depends on strain and nutrients. However, it is very difficult to keep L. nuda mycelium happy. A compost or manure based substrate should be fine, but always take great care that it is on the dry side and enough oxygen is provided. For grain spawn I had better results when mixing in some compost.

Carsten




Carsten, you are golden.  I really appreciate knowing that I am not alone!

...it is soooo weird.  My grain spawn looked *perfect*....then a couple
weeks later I was left trying to spawn just the top half grains.

I will be continuing to experiment with this species.  It is a local
wild find and I want to know it better.

I will try the experiments you suggest. 

Thanks again,

JD


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15787781 - 02/10/12 10:17 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You guys get this figured out and let me know. I found two growing in my yard a few years ago but they never showed up again. I want to start a bed if you will figure it out for me. Thanks for all the hard work.


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I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!!

Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.


Edited by trout (02/10/12 10:19 AM)


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: trout]
    #15787913 - 02/10/12 11:03 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Will do.

This is going to take a long time, as I am working with dozens of species
at the same time, as usual....but it will happen.

I even have a spore print to fall back on, and I think that I can because
at this point a non-fruiting strain is no problem.  I am still working
on strong spawn and then strong colonization.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15789700 - 02/10/12 07:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I have 2 strains going right now, one of them is pinning on agar.
I also have 1 fully colonized sawdust/newspaper/h-manure bag that I just put into my FC. This is my first try with them, but my plates have no discoloration, just very fluffy ariel whitish myc.


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: bambus]
    #15791441 - 02/11/12 06:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, did you clone the pinning strain yourself? Can you show a picture?

Carsten


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15791764 - 02/11/12 09:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Wow indeed.

I had come to think that this species' mycelium was consistently colored.

...and I had thought to work with multiple genetics before isolating strains.
I am more interested in the needs of this species than I am in yield at this point.

Perhaps an isolate would omit the destructive behavior?

Interesting.  Please do post photos! 

Thanks for sharing.

JD


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15792002 - 02/11/12 11:05 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
I am more interested in the needs of this species than I am in yield at this point.




I don't know much about growing, but I always find them where the leaf/needle litter covers some older wood chips.


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15804737 - 02/13/12 08:00 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I cloned 2 strains from wild specimens.
Only one plate has pins on it so far.
I thought this species would need a casing layer, but I guess not.
Here are some pics of the pins (sorry for the poor quality, taking pictures through glass is a challenge).





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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: bambus]
    #15806040 - 02/13/12 11:40 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Wow.  All this white growth...

Thanks for sharing!

JD


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Re: Lepista Nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15812146 - 02/15/12 06:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

That picture is just amazing. Did you use some unusual agar recipe to induce pins?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15812173 - 02/15/12 06:45 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I hate to say this and I hope I am wrong, but that pure white mycelium as well as the small fruitbodies appear suspicious to me. Any chance you had oysters fruiting in your flat when working with that culture, bambus?

I have only seen three strains of L. nuda so far, but each time the mycelium wasn't pure white, it always had some purple color.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15812906 - 02/15/12 11:35 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I must concur.

I find that the growth is white for a day or two, but it darkens as
the growth continues.

This was the result of transferring just a white leading-edge bit from
an anti-biotic agar dish to a fresh regular agar (MEA) dish:


The coloration does not seem to be an infection, but part of the life
cycle of this species.....it may be a negative indication (I need to confirm
or deny this!) of something undesirable going on, but it might also
just be how it grows out.

I am open to anything, as I know zip about this species so far.

I am driven, in part, by the fact that I am working with a wild find
and really think that I will be able to make this work.

Thank you all for taking the time,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15813134 - 02/15/12 12:27 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I should have been more clear in my first post, I said "whitish".
I meant not pure white, it does have a lavender hue to it, but it is faint.
The well formed pins are sprouting directly from the piece of cloned tissue.
These pins look nothing like the pins on my oyster plates.
They could be pinning due to the temps, my plates are stored at 45F-60F.
The temp fluctuates more than it probably should.
I also have G. frondosa pins on agar believe it or not.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #15813316 - 02/15/12 01:12 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Alright, 'not pure white, with a lavender hue' sounds perfect.

JD, I wasn't clear, I meant young aerial mycelium, which should have that color. Browning on MEA seems to be a different effect, which also happens with several strains of Agaricus bisporus. It seems to be coupled with weaker growth, so perhaps there is some nutrient deficiency, causing older mycelium to die, so younger hyphae can continue to grow.
PDYA usually supports strong and fluffy growth, while the secreted enzymes stain the agar almost blue. There is a nice picture here:
http://kulturpilz.de/viewtopic.php?p=17260#p17260

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15814073 - 02/15/12 04:38 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks Carsten.  I will look for this, and will have to try varying
my agar recipe too.  (I was looking to do this already and have potato
dextrose, etc, ready to go)

I did want to reiterate that my genetics are based on a wild find and
are as strong, to the eye, as I would expect from a wild sample.

It has grown strongly on agar and ever stronger on grains.

...it just never stops the transition from purple-orange to orange,
to darker orange, and ending up blackish.  I need to look at one of
these dark areas under the scope, as I have no idea what is happening
in those areas.

Thanks again,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15814833 - 02/15/12 07:10 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

The agar I used was the corn-steep pre-mix from mushroompeople.
I also added a bit of H-manure to it when cloning this species.
The fully colonized grain jars show no "spots" whatsoever. The mycelium has a very uniform color to it. The growth is not rhizomophic at all, just light & fluffy.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #15814894 - 02/15/12 07:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

OK, I am going to make two new sleeves of agar dishes.

One will be potato based and the other will be plain MEA agar plus manure.

Thanks!

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15815076 - 02/15/12 07:43 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Looking forward to updates JD

-Mike


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: mikesethnobotany]
    #15815968 - 02/15/12 10:35 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I just wanted to add that I found a specimen of Lepista Nuda today and will be doing a tissue sample to agar. I will post my results. The continued input of those who have attempted cultivation of this species is greatly appreciated.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15815986 - 02/15/12 10:39 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Good news, and good luck metacohl!

They are a pretty species, aren't they?  I was surprised to find out that
something so lovely is edible. (and George Carlin told me, there is no blue food!)

I am really looking forward to what you see on agar.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15817109 - 02/16/12 04:06 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

P.S. I poured a sleeve of PDYA dishes this evening and made a xfer to
two of them from the leading edge of my latest (A agar -> normal agar)
L. nuda dish this evening.

Tomorrow I am going to pour a sleeve of PMEA tomorrow.

(Poo Malt Extract Agar)

These are just my attempts to see if this species grows better on
different agar formulas.  I want to a new to the point where I can
try Carsten's manure-with-the-grains idea.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15817163 - 02/16/12 04:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'm curious how the PMEA will perform. :smile: I guess there will be quite a difference, as I have seen good results on pure manure agar without other ingredients.

Generally, primary wood decomposers can utilize most nutrients they find plus they synthesize their own vitamins, while most secondary decomposers depend on a special set of nutrients, provided by microbes. Thats why MEA isn't good for each and every mushroom. It does contain some proteins and other nitrogen compounds, but mushrooms, which grow on leaf litter or manure often can't digest them.

So... just add manure... and keep an eye on the pot when boiling, manure tea tends to foam and boil over, leaving quite a mess on the stove.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #15817174 - 02/16/12 04:57 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bambus said:
The agar I used was the corn-steep pre-mix from mushroompeople.
I also added a bit of H-manure to it when cloning this species.
The fully colonized grain jars show no "spots" whatsoever. The mycelium has a very uniform color to it. The growth is not rhizomophic at all, just light & fluffy.



Interesting that the corn steep agar does not show any color reaction at all. So far I have only seen L. nuda rhizomorphs in casing soil. They were extremely thin and didn't really deserve that name.

Carsten



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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15817654 - 02/16/12 09:29 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Paper on L. Nuda cultivation if anyone has access or wants to purchase.

http://www.pubhort.org/isms/11/1/v11_p1_a70.htm


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Edited by metacohl (02/16/12 09:30 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15817663 - 02/16/12 09:31 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

*Edit* The majority of the papers I've skimmed say they are culturing on MEA or PDA, but below is some info on alternative mediums.

From another paper

"Mycelial growth of four strains of the wood blewit mushroom Lepista nuda on culture media with different organic supplements (coconut bagasse, sugarcane bagasse, oak sawdust), pH (6, 7, 8) and temperature (20°C, 25°C) was evaluated. Linear growth rate (Kt) on agar medium was measured. Biomass production of mycelia and phenolic content on oak liquid culture, under two different gaseous interchange treatments, culture bottles with filter (F) and culture bottles without filter (WF), also were observed. Results showed a significant influence of the supplements and strains on agar. The best growth responses were observed on oak agar medium at 20°C and 25°C (0.417 and 0.410 mm d-1, respectively). For both temperatures, in all treatments no differences significantly were observed. The highest Kt by L. nuda strains was registered at pH 7. On liquid culture, the F treatment significantly increased the biomass production (4.10 mg mL-1) by almost 1.8 times compared to the WF treatment (2.29 mg mL-1) at 13 days of incubation. Phenols concentration decreased in both treatments but in F treatment the phenols concentration (0.79 mMol L-1) decreased less than WF (0.62 mMol L-1). No correlation between the biomass production and phenolic content was observed."

GAITAN-HERNANDEZ, Rigoberto  y  BAEZ RODRIGUEZ, Iván. Mycelial growth of Lepista nuda native wild strains on culture media with different organic supplements. Rev. Mex. Mic [online]. 2008, vol.26, pp. 41-49. ISSN 0187-3180.

Growth parameters of Australian varieties

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1996/v3-476.html

*Edit* And another about cloning from wild specimens

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1388993/pdf/hw4288.pdf

"Some saprophytic soil basidiomycetes may not be recovered by the method described here. Warcup (49) collected soil be- neath fruiting bodies of some soil basidiomycetes, such as Agaricus arvensis (Psalliota arvensis), Lepista nuda (Tricholoma nudum), and Marasmius oreades, and found that they will grow out from undisturbed soil blocks or in soil plates. During this study, soil was collected below fruiting bodies of Lepista nuda. This species could not be recovered from washed particles plated on lignin-guaiacol-benomyl agar but was isolated from hyphae growing out of small soil crumbs sprinkled on water agar. Thus, it seems that the particle-washing technique should be combined with other methods such as the soil plate method (48) or the soil crumb or sprinkle plate methods (3, 47) for a more complete estimate of the diversity of saprophytic basid- iomycetes."


Edited by metacohl (02/16/12 10:09 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15818890 - 02/16/12 02:51 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Very interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

Is anyone interested in explaining the term "Kt" in the phrase:
    "The highest Kt by L. nuda strains..."

Also by "Filtered" they are referring to filtered GE vs. open ports?

BTW, I am looking at the Cornsteep Dextrose Agar from MP, referred to
above, and I wanted to confirm that it is an agar mix that just needs
water.  This must be the case as it is cheaper than plain agar-agar.

FWIW, what are your favorite, non-chinese grocery, agar sources?

Take care all,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15820912 - 02/16/12 10:23 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
Is anyone interested in explaining the term "Kt" in the phrase:
    "The highest Kt by L. nuda strains..."
JD




I believe they are defining the growth rate as Kt

"Linear growth rate (Kt) on agar "


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15822358 - 02/17/12 07:44 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

A growth rate of 0.417mm/day is pretty slow anyway. I got more than three times that speed on compost with spent oyster sub, even without grain.

Thanks for adding those links and abstracts, metacohl!

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15822504 - 02/17/12 09:19 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
A growth rate of 0.417mm/day is pretty slow anyway. I got more than three times that speed on compost with spent oyster sub, even without grain.

Thanks for adding those links and abstracts, metacohl!

Carsten




I believe those measurements are from growth on agar plates? I think that adding some sort of compost or spent substrate could definitely improve the growth, they seem to be secondary decomposers?

So of my two tissue cultures from my wild specimen, only one seems to have been successful. My stipe tissue culture almost immediately started to liquify after I put in on a dish and now seems to be enveloped by some bacterial growth. While the dish on to which I scraped colonized soil fragments has some amazing fiborous, rhizomorphic growth stretching across sections of the dish. Literally some of the rhizomorphs are > 3mm long. Looks very similar to some of the macro photos I have seen of L. Nuda mycellium. I dont think my camera could capture them at the moment but Ill try to post some images later.

*edit* The growth is very reminiscent of this photo from mushroomexpert
L.Nuda Mycelium colonizing bacteria


Edited by metacohl (02/17/12 09:23 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15822766 - 02/17/12 11:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Here are some pics of my soil sample plate... and my disclaimer.. I apologize for the quality of the photos as this is my first time taking pictures of a petridish and I am still learning how to use my camera phone for macro photography.

Also... this was literally the first agar dish I have ever poured... and I didn't let it cool long enough before attempting to wrap it in parafilm....so the media splashed and bubbled on the lid...:facepalm3:




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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15822802 - 02/17/12 11:27 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I guess my question is how do we know that is l. nuda growing on the plate.  Dirt could have dozens of things growing in it at the same time and who knows which one took off on the agar.  Not to be a downer, but I would just be very suspect of this culture being what you want.

They sell l. nuda at a grocery store near me, I have no idea the source but they had them a few weeks ago.  I am going soon and buy one(they are like $35-45 a lb) and see if I can clone.

Trout


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: trout]
    #15822872 - 02/17/12 11:47 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

trout said:
I guess my question is how do we know that is l. nuda growing on the plate.  Dirt could have dozens of things growing in it at the same time and who knows which one took off on the agar.  Not to be a downer, but I would just be very suspect of this culture being what you want.





Obviously no one could say with 100% certainty at this point that it is L. Nuda. I think that the fact the soil was 1) Visibly colonized by L. Nuda mycelium. 2) Among the different types of growth on the plate, 1 pattern matches the pictures of L. Nuda rhizomorphs online. 3) I would just be very suspect of any other filamentous fungi growing that much more quickly than the L. Nuda mycelium already colonizing the soil. All contribute to a good chance that it is L. Nuda.

Though once a transfer is made, the lilac color and blue staining of PDYA should make it idiot proof to identify.....


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Edited by metacohl (02/17/12 11:49 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15822983 - 02/17/12 12:19 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

The picture by George Barron shows magnified single hyphae, not rhizomorphs. Sure there is some similarity to what I can see in your second pic, but you better don't put too much trust in mycelium from soil samples. Colonizing L. nuda mycelium does not sterilize the soil it grows in plus lots of soil fungi can grow like this, for example ink caps.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15823077 - 02/17/12 12:42 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
The picture by George Barron shows magnified single hyphae, not rhizomorphs. Sure there is some similarity to what I can see in your second pic, but you better don't put too much trust in mycelium from soil samples. Colonizing L. nuda mycelium does not sterilize the soil it grows in plus lots of soil fungi can grow like this, for example ink caps.

Carsten




I did not realize the Barron picture was of single hyphae, thank you for clarifying that. Like I said, obviously it is impossible to be sure right now. Perhaps I am over estimating the likelihood of it being L. Nuda. I am hoping that the color of the pure culture will help to identify.

Also, I was not clear on whether L. Nuda as a species stains PDYA blue or just the isolate in the photograph you posted. Can you clarify this?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15823171 - 02/17/12 01:11 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not sure, but as I read it often, I guess all L. nuda strains do that. Perhaps it is a reaction between fungal enzymes and starch.

@Trout
You may find a less aromatic Lepista saeva instead.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14659744

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15823196 - 02/17/12 01:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
I'm not sure, but as I read it often, I guess all L. nuda strains do that. Perhaps it is a reaction between fungal enzymes and starch.
Carsten




Thanks, that is what I was thinking as well. Doesn't seem to far fetched to me that a lavender mushroom might have a blue metabolite. :smile:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15827273 - 02/18/12 11:50 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Look closer, we see brown staining around the mycelium on MEA and no color change on corn steep agar. This looks pretty much like the common chemical test for starch. In this case the iodine may be replaced by secreted amylase. L. nuda shall produce lots of those starch degrading enzymes according to this paper:
'Mycelial Culture Conditions of Lepista nuda and Extracellular Enzyme Activity, Sang-Dae Kim, Ji-Hye Kim, Jong-Bong Kim, Yeong-Hwan Han'
http://www.msk.or.kr/jsp/downloadPDF1.jsp?paperSeq=2271&fileName=41(3)-4(p.164-167).pdf
Can't read the korean text, but the tables on page 3 are interesting, especially the comparison of various sources of carbon and nitrogen.

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15827483 - 02/18/12 12:46 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Two days on Javadogs own WPDWYA* agar and everything looks better so far:


I was hoping to make my PMEA tonight, but I am being dragged to
HELL^H^H^H^H the in-laws today.  Ah well.

Take care,

JD

* Wrong Potato Dextrose Wrong Yeast Agar  ;0)


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Edited by Javadog (02/18/12 01:10 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15827939 - 02/18/12 02:50 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
Two days on Javadogs own WPDWYA* agar and everything looks better so far:


I was hoping to make my PMEA tonight, but I am being dragged to
HELL^H^H^H^H the in-laws today.  Ah well.

Take care,

JD

* Wrong Potato Dextrose Wrong Yeast Agar  ;0)




Looking nice JD! And good luck with the in-laws... :wink:

Carsten: I was not aware of that starch test using iodine. Here is what I found about the reaction.

"What properties of starch (given its chemical structure) allow it to be used as an indicator?
Davender Khera, Yale University
When starch is mixed with iodine in water, an intensely colored starch/iodine complex is formed. Many of the details of the reaction are still unknown. But it seems that the iodine (in the form of I5- ions) gets stuck in the coils of beta amylose molecules (beta amylose is a soluble starch). The starch forces the iodine atoms into a linear arrangement in the central groove of the amylose coil. There is some transfer of charge between the starch and the iodine. That changes the way electrons are confined, and so, changes spacing of the energy levels. The iodine/starch complex has energy level spacings that are just so for absorbing visible light- giving the complex its intense blue color."

Pretty interesting. I don't think that the similarity in color produced by the reaction of L. Nuda enzymes with the starches necessarily means a similar mechanism, but perhaps.

Also, all of my tissue cultures and subcultures from my soil sample are pretty much annihilated by bacteria. All of my tissue cultures pretty much dissolved into a pool of bacterial sludge :frown: Did you guys find it easy to germinate the spores on agar? Any info on how common fruiting isolates are?


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Edited by metacohl (02/18/12 03:12 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15830563 - 02/19/12 03:10 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I survived.

...and I poured a sleeve of PMEA dishes before I left.

First L. nuda xfers onto it:


I will let you know how it grows out.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15830699 - 02/19/12 04:40 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

@JD
Really nice looking Plates! Your WPDWYA seems not to be W at all. Cool that one can see the metabolic activity without even clicking on the thumbnail. Can't wait to see all the new plates in two weeks.

@metacohl
All we can say for sure is that it is some kind of two component reaction, where something from the mycelium interferes with something in the agar medium. My starch theory is just a possibility, based on colors and the known preference of L. nuda for starch. The problematic part is no staining on corn steep agar, which would mean there is either no starch or some type which reacts without color. Both may be unrealistic.
I found several LC recipes, calling for 4% starch, but I wonder where starch would occur in leaf or needle litter in nature.
And yes, germinating L. nuda spores is easy, though it may take two or three weeks.

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15831435 - 02/19/12 10:48 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
@JD
Really nice looking Plates! Your WPDWYA seems not to be W at all. Cool that one can see the metabolic activity without even clicking on the thumbnail. Can't wait to see all the new plates in two weeks.




Right! Such a great color too! I'm very interested to see how the PMEA plates turn out as well.

Quote:

Mycelio said:
@metacohl
All we can say for sure is that it is some kind of two component reaction, where something from the mycelium interferes with something in the agar medium. My starch theory is just a possibility, based on colors and the known preference of L. nuda for starch. The problematic part is no staining on corn steep agar, which would mean there is either no starch or some type which reacts without color. Both may be unrealistic.
I found several LC recipes, calling for 4% starch, but I wonder where starch would occur in leaf or needle litter in nature.
And yes, germinating L. nuda spores is easy, though it may take two or three weeks.

Carsten




Thanks for the input, glad to know the timeframe for germination. Everything you have said about the color reaction makes sense. I also wonder where in a pile of leaf or needle litter L. Nuda would find starch...

After thinking about your comment of no visible color change on corn steep, I decided to do look into the starch content of potatoes vs. corn.

http://members.home.nl/ajansma/zetmeel/infoe/chapter2.htm
"The ratio amylose/amylopectine differs per starch source. Table 2.3 indicates the composition for a number of starches.

starch amylose amylopectine
potato 21 79
maize 28 72
wheat 26 74
tapioca 17 83
waxy maize - 100"

It seems all starch is a mixture of amylose and amylopectine, just at varying ratios?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl] * 1
    #15831641 - 02/19/12 11:42 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks guys. 

(this thread started to rock when you arrived Carsten)

FYI, I went ahead and purchased a lb. of the corn steep, just to have
another agar alternative.

This all kinda cracks me up, as with most species it has been the
fruiting stage that has been the hard part so far.  All of this
fighting with agar and grains rather takes me back to my early
struggles.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15837520 - 02/20/12 02:02 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I'm doing some experiments with Lepista nuda, too. I obtained my culture from a wild specimen found on mostly spruce needles humus.



In my case, mycelium grows VERY slowly on PDA (can't complete an entire plate in 2 months), but with a very strong purple color. On MEYA it grow much faster, but very aerial and with very pale purple shades, like this:



I prepared a spawn jar (mostly millet) and inoculated with an agar wedge; after over a month, it fully colonized with aerial, apparently weak mycelium. On 06th of January I spawned the jar on a 2,5 kg sawdust bag, in order to obtain more spawn. It colonized it, without liking it very much but sufficiently strong to keep sawdust clumped. Pic was taken on 18th of January. Now bag is fully colonized)



Now I'm planning to spawn it on pasteurized cow manure/straw, and see what'll happen :grin:


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Edited by atricoz (02/20/12 02:02 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15837758 - 02/20/12 02:50 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you for sharing Atricoz. 

It is very interesting, just how different your growth is from what I am seeing.

For my part, I have to report that I might be seeing bacterial colonies
on my PMEA dishes.  If they do develop, then I will make another sleeve
of them, but will heat the mix longer on the stove, and in the PC.

The WPDWYA is still clean and growing without the blackening die-back
that I am working to prevent.

Onward and upward,

JD

P.S. I thought to add that this is a situation where I could have used
glass petri dishes.  I love the disposables, but begin to think that
I will benefit from a set of glass dishes.  This would allow me to
re-sterilize dishes when I am experimenting with new agar recipes.


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Edited by Javadog (02/20/12 02:54 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15849935 - 02/22/12 10:49 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Hello all,

I have a few things to add.

While the jury is still out, the WPDWYA dishes do seem to be staving
off the mycelial die-back that plain and antibiotic agar suffered from.

Here is a photo comparison:


(sorry, the flash really accents the fogging)

This evening I made up six jars of WBS and mixed it with some dry compost.
The result was on the dry side, as Carsten suggested.  I will be
inoculating these jars with the WPDWYA agar dishes.

We will see if anything comes of it.

Also, I went ahead and invested in a dozen pyrex petris.  I have a huge box
of sleeves of the disposable variety to use more commonly, but I wanted
a set of the glass variety with which to experiment.

I am going to resterilize the PMEA dishes.  I want to see if they can be saved.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15850081 - 02/22/12 11:17 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:


Here is a photo comparison:



JD




You look like your growing contamination.

Lipa


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: lipa]
    #15850145 - 02/22/12 11:34 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Really?!?  Dude, I know zip about this species.

What sort of contam?

I do know that I started off on MEA and took just the leading edge
when I transferred to an anti-biotics MEA dish, and then I did the
same to this PDYA.

What else to do?  A hot pour?

I have seen others grows of this species (i.e. the German website
that Carsten pointed to) and those other efforts also had a large
amount of coloration.

I am open to any suggestion.  I also have a spore-print from the original fruit.

Any ideas appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15850195 - 02/22/12 11:44 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry to see the difficulties JD, keep on keepin' on!


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15850392 - 02/23/12 12:43 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

None of my cultures have ever done that from any blewits in our area. Just saying. I've seen violet tints in the mycelium but no strong coloration like that.

Lipa


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: lipa]
    #15850402 - 02/23/12 12:46 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

Well, well. 

I did get an ID from the ID thread....

Here is the fruit:


I will plow forward.  I can only hope that I am blazing trails. (no pun intended ;0)

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15850419 - 02/23/12 12:50 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

I could be wrong. It was only a suggestion. I just haven't seen this before.

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: lipa]
    #15850480 - 02/23/12 01:16 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

No worries.  I will post results, if any.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15860996 - 02/25/12 09:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well after about ten days I began to see something on the plate I inoculated with spores from my suspected L. Nuda specimen. Not much has happened in the four days since then. There appears to be a very faint, practically invisible, but coarse, fiborous mycelium growing across the plate. There are multiple germination sites and obvious differences in morphology.

The whole thing is growing SOOOOO SLOW! Just in the past day or so some barely visible white wisps have begun to appear which seem like the beginning of more cottony hyphae. I wish that I could take a picture, but I really don't think my camera could capture the image. At the rate it is growing it could be quite some time before a picture is feasible.

Im just wondering if this description sounds similar to what those of you who have germinated spores of this sp. observed......


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15862081 - 02/25/12 03:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hey metacohl,

Remind me of the agar recipe that you are using...are you seeing any
discoloration of the agar as it is metabolized?  Photos?

For my part, I recall fairly aggressive growth.

I took some new photos of the comparison of growth on the two different agars.

I will dig up my log and confirm the recipes and dates, but I they are
MEA and PDYA (WPDWYA ;0):



The growth appears faster on PDYA, and there does seem to be less of
the blackening die-off, or whatever it is, but there is some on the
PDYA as well.

I went ahead and inoculated six quarts of WBS that I prepared by adding
dry compost (extremely aged manure really) to the grains immediately
after they were boiled and then strained.  I let the compost take up
the extra moisture.  They result was a relatively dry mixture.

The dryness is one factor that I will have to learn by screwing up,
but the result has not suppressed growth, as I am already seeing some action.

The PMEA dishes are very interesting.  Not "successful" at all but interesting.
Actually, I checked as I write this, and the does appear to be growth
jumping off the transfer finally.  We will see if it stays vigorous,
but it is certainly slower.

I reported earlier that the PMEA dishes may have been showing bacterial
colonies (wet, colorul spots) but this may not be the case.  It may
just be how the PMEA forms as it cools.  I begin to wonder this because
I have never seen the spots grow.  I just noticed them initially.

Onward and upward,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15862476 - 02/25/12 05:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Its on PDYA, no discoloration so far.... honestly... I am thinking mold at this point.

Here is the best pic I could get. The faint circle is the border of the almost invisible mycelium I spoke of. It looks fairly coarse and fibrous as I said, but now it is getting this little while dots all over it... I have been trying SOOO hard to get a good picture of this plate today. I am having a lot of trouble with reflection off the top of the dish, but I have no room without an overhead light source.



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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15866826 - 02/26/12 05:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Uhm, It looks like mold to me :crazy:
Just wait some more before tossing it to see what'll happen. For what I can see, L.nuda cultures are very variable


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15866890 - 02/26/12 05:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I know I don't have to be too optimistic with this project, because this isn't a very simple species to grow and that's my first try with it. But this is really exciting :smile:
I spawned the sawdust block in an about equal quantity of pasteurized cow manure, with some pine needles and dry leaves. I made a sort of monotub spreading layers of sawdust and compost. After just one day, mycelium shows signs of awakening. The violet color is just amazing :smile:









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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15868138 - 02/26/12 11:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Nice stuff atricoz!

I have high hopes for your grow.

Thanks for the update.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15869409 - 02/27/12 08:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, atricoz, your spawn looks extremely healthy and strong!

@metacohl
Here is an old picture of L. nuda mycelium on compost, right after spore germination:

I guess it would appear differently on agar, but you should see slightly curled hyphae, growing more straight after a couple of days.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15869472 - 02/27/12 09:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
@metacohl
Here is an old picture of L. nuda mycelium on compost, right after spore germination:
I guess it would appear differently on agar, but you should see slightly curled hyphae, growing more straight after a couple of days.

Carsten




Thanks Carsten. After reading your post I am now positive that some of the colonies growing on the plate I posted are L. Nuda. Unfortunately, the mold on the plate has obviously begun sporulating. I am not very experienced with agar, but it seems unwise to open a plate of sporulating mold when I still have spores to work with.

It seems that my spore print may be highly contaminated with mold. I was thinking by using the streaking method commonly used for bacteria I may be able to isolate the mold and mushroom spores. However, with the seemingly long germination time for spores of this species I am worried that the mold will begin sporulating again before I have time to identify the colonies of L. Nuda......

Any thoughts?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: metacohl]
    #15869563 - 02/27/12 09:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, starting again and streaking sounds good. You usually have two or three days before molds sporulate, so you can try removing anything that appears too early or looks odd. Just lift the lid at one side as much as you need to get your tool in and out, to keep the contamination risk as low as possible.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15883298 - 02/29/12 10:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hello all,

I wanted to check in.

The spawn is colonized (recall, added compost and made it on the dry side):


The orange color concerns me...this is looking like the straight
grain spawn that I failed with on my previous attempts.

Check the latest agar tests.  Here we have WPDWYA, anti-biotic MEA,
and PMEA next to each other:


The PMEA dishes are interesting.  The xfer from the PDYA dish is
still healthy looking, but the inoculant from the MEA dish has darkened.
(that is the fogged up dish.  Sorry!)  Also, the growth on the PMEA
is whitish and not showing the blackening die-back.  ...it has not
grown out far enough to tell if this difference will hold.

I will go ahead and pasteurize a sub to test the spawn out on, though
I have little expectations of success. 

I think that I will make a coir based sub as well as a hpoo compost sub,
just to see what this does.  ...we will see. 

Take care,

JD

P.S. I am getting my first P. caerulescens pins!



Hoo hoo!


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Edited by Javadog (02/29/12 10:36 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15892312 - 03/02/12 09:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's incredible how the mycelium looks different on each petri. In the 2 on the left, is seems to have some greenish layers too :ooo:

I have some update, now the substrate looks almost practically completely colonized by a thin, light violet mycelium. I'm wondering if it's the moment to add a casing layer or not :crazy:







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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15892553 - 03/02/12 10:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Dang...I like your stuff sooo much more than mine.

I made a new sub that I want to try with my L. nuda anyway.

We need to trade a wedge or something....maybe I can go back to the
spore print that I took from the wild found fruit I started with.

I am definitely outside the lines on this one.

Oh, and I cannot be certain, but I would go ahead and add a casing layer.
I would let it be colonized before I put it into fruiting conditions.
This is an interesting phase, as the casing layer will need to be living.
I am not sure that just 50/50 pasteurized will suffice.

If I had ten trays like that I would literally take dirt from my back yard
and pasteurize that for one of them.  The same with plenty of leaves
and twigs for another.  Etc...

Good luck.  I am really happy that you joined this thread.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15899086 - 03/04/12 02:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I went ahead and spawned the dryish-grain-plus-WBS spawn to
two tubs.  I have little expectation of success, but I did get to work
with a new sub element.

I went to our local landfill and got a trashcan of the mulch that is
made from our greenery waste.  It is relatively fine, very dark, and
well broken down.

I used mainly this, but added some hpoo, chopped straw, verm, and gypsum.



(I am thinking that RR might get a laugh from my repurposing of
otherwise useless materials)

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15899832 - 03/04/12 05:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Nice work so far, I am curious to see any growth differences with mine. I'm going to place a casing layer next week, mycelium is still fluffy and didn't clump the substrate :crazy:


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Edited by atricoz (03/04/12 05:14 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15900436 - 03/04/12 07:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Just want to give an update on my L. nuda attempt.
I had 1 sawdust block that was fully colonized, it smelled just like a fresh blewitt. After 3 weeks in the FC my sawdust bag contamed with green mold.
I did not case it, which I think was a big mistake. The myc is so thin that it is prone to drying and some sort of overlay happens.
I'm about to try the strain that pinned on agar, so we'll see.
I'm also going to incorporate hardwood leaves into the next sub.

looking goog atricoz, I think JD is right about casing it.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #15900443 - 03/04/12 07:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for sharing Bambus.

I appreciate your joining the effort.  One of us will get fruits, then
we can all try whatever they did.  ;0)

Good luck,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15902330 - 03/05/12 05:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Wow.
I love this species. (particularly with garlic, onion and olive oil)
In january 2011 i did an experiment where i did put cardboard, fallen leaves (oak), pin needles, barks and coffee grounds in a tray.
Then i did add many blewitt stem butts. After some weeks i saw a lot of mycelium walking everywhere. And yes, the colour was exactly the same that we can notice in Atricoz snaps, a pale lilac.
A month later, more or less, i did put a casing layer with pasteurized potting soil and a bit of sand. I wanted to ricreate a similar habitat to that where theses beauties live.
But although the mycelium did cover almost fully the casing layer several days later, i never saw any sign of pin heads so, after some weeks, i did empty the tray in a little wood near my home.
So far i'm still waiting my blewitts...hoping that the mycelium is still alive :rolleyes:
For more details
here you find my log
http://www.veggiegardeningtips.com/blewitt-mushrooms-for-the-adventurous-gardener/

Unfortunately, this last autumn-winter, through lack of rain, i didn't find any Lepista nowhere.:mad2:

A big thanks to all of you, guys. This is a fantastic thread:thumbup:


Edited by ILBIACCO (03/05/12 10:34 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: ILBIACCO]
    #15902648 - 03/05/12 09:09 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

...and thank you very much for sharing.

I only had the one wild find to start with, and I started from spores,
but I do seem to be the odd man out as far as the appearance of the
mycelium goes. 

The starting point:


I appreciate your sharing your sub recipe...that is rather up in the air at this point.
I can only think of the place where I found my fruit.

Good luck!

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15903233 - 03/05/12 12:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I am an absolute beginner in mushroom cultivation.
I know zip about agar, honestly.
As you know some species are able to regrow from stem butts:
Pleurotus ostreatus is propably the first and most well-known example. My growing attempts, for now, are limited to this species.
But, if in the future i have another specimen of blewitt between my hands, i will do another try, surely.
Another species that, in my opinion, is ideally suited for my tray of woodchips, fallen leaves, pine needles and so on is Clitocybe Geotropa.
A very tasty mushroom:crazy2: with a big "fluffy" stem butt, and
many pieces of mycelium attached to it.
Good luck to you!


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Edited by ILBIACCO (03/05/12 12:24 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: ILBIACCO]
    #15903469 - 03/05/12 01:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I just found a Blewit patch and took a couple prints. Does anyone know if you can start cultivation with spore syringes and BRF? I dont have a pressure cooker so i can't do WBS, or Wheat berries. Thanks


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: dirt]
    #15903477 - 03/05/12 01:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I bet that you can make spawn this way, but you will want to spawn it
to a tub of a better sub for fruiting, I think.

Do it!  ;0)

JD

P.S. A parallel is using BRF cakes to start a Panaelous grow.  It works
fine, but you want to use a manure based sub for fruiting. (I am as I type)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15903545 - 03/05/12 01:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Cool, thanks much JD. I'm planning on knocking up a couple test jars and then 8 jars if all goes well. I'd like to  have plenty to work with so I can experiment with different substrates. I'll keep you posted, but not expecting anything until next year.

Thanks


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: dirt]
    #15903851 - 03/05/12 02:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Of course, thank you for jumping in.  I read of one limited success where
a six month colonization period was observed.  Wow.  We will see.

Good luck,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15936354 - 03/12/12 05:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hey guys,
where have you gone?
Updates, please.:grin:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: ILBIACCO]
    #15936503 - 03/12/12 07:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

yesterday I spreaded another layer of compost, and finally cased with 50/50 vermiculite and peat moss. I'll post some pic in the next days :smile:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15937694 - 03/12/12 02:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

For my part, I spawned the odd looking dry-grains+sub
jars to some compost tubs.  I expect to stare at them
for months.

The growth on agar is still odd.


There are small hyphal aggregates on the surface.  I looked
closely at them and they are not knots or stones, not yet anyway.

I think that I will revisit my original spore print.
The original fruits was a good representative of the
woodland blewit.  ....there is no reason my growth
on agar should be so weird.

The outer growth on the PMEA dish is the closest that
I have seen to normal L. nuda so far.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15958819 - 03/17/12 09:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

This is an update of how my tray looks now. Unluckily I just saw a little fly gnat walking on the casing layer; I fastly killed it, but I guess that I'll see a lot of them on it, soon :frown:
Anyway, mycelium just started to run through the casing layer, made of pasteurized 50/50 peat moss and vermiculite. It seems like mycelium prefers a lot sawdust and the casing layer itself rather than dung-based compost I added. This suggest me that maybe I should try different compost formulas in the future, like one made of woodchips, dry leaves, pine/fir needles and maybe a little of pasteurized soil.







--------------------


Edited by atricoz (03/17/12 09:47 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15959024 - 03/17/12 11:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the update Atricoz.

My tubs are just sitting there, but this is par for
the course for whatever odd genetics with which I am working.

I think that I am going to go back to my original spore
print and try again.

I will post back here on results.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15962559 - 03/18/12 08:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Atricoz,
I concur with you on the observation regarding the compound.
Think about the habitat where you did find the blewitt,
a leaf and pin needles litter, i suppose.
When have you found your blewitt? In januari/february after the melt?
Anyway, your tray reminds me of my first(and last so far:frown:) Lepista experiment.:smile:
Mine has never fructified, so i wish you better luck.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: ILBIACCO]
    #15962623 - 03/18/12 09:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I found it last august in a fir wood; it was growing over a spruce needles rich soil. My next try will be with spruce needels and humus, I guess :smile:

Today, while opening a pretty old plate stored in the fridge, I had this nice findings, seems like culture is forming little primordia directly from agar (PDA). I guess that's a good sign of culture's vitality :laugh:







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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15962745 - 03/18/12 10:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Dude, you got pins!

LOL, this threads first ones. :thumbup:

I am counting them a success until we see better.

Good luck all,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15963029 - 03/18/12 12:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Really cool shit!! You  know now what you need to do now. Chill that tray as much as possible. Here I find growing lepista nuda in the freakin snow all over the mountains during the cold season. I think they like it.

Lipa


Edited by lipa (03/18/12 12:36 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: lipa]
    #15986294 - 03/23/12 04:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Seems like casing is 100% colonized now. I spotted just one more fly gnat, so the problem could be not that big.
In some points it also seems like rhizomorphs are forming
At this point, I guess all I can do is to open the tray and keep the casing layer humid. Probably a cold shock would be benefical, but I just can't do it, since that tray is too big for the fridge  :ohwell:





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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15986357 - 03/23/12 04:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fingers crossed!


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15988922 - 03/24/12 08:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, fingers crossed!

After searching the web for pictures from french cultivators, I am sure that the pins Bambus showed earlier, were L. nuda too. Pretty encouraging, that two of us already got pins, even without casing soil.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #15989832 - 03/24/12 01:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome thread guys!  I am working with a very similar species, Lepista tarda, found in Hawaii where i live.  The literature says they are identical except for a few microscopic features so i figured i would show you guys!

Here is my original collection, found in a lawn after 2 weeks of intense rains (like 19 inches in two weeks intense!).

The original collection...










I i took tissue samples from two fruits and tried to get a spore drop onto agar but that contamed.  The spore load was crazy out of these and i wish i had made a print now :frown:  Either way i have plates from the tissue sample and a large (120 mm) plate with a stembutt on cardboard that is growing like nuts (not sterile though).  Iʻll get pics later today when i go into my lab.  I was just so excited to see others experimenting with these! 

Has anyone seen successful fruiting indoors documented anywhere?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15990717 - 03/24/12 06:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That's looking good, I'd put that container in a big cooler with a bunch of ice for a day or two.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: falcon]
    #15991747 - 03/24/12 10:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Great idea.  Cool and moist.

You'd have to bag it to put it in the fridge.

Thanks!

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #15994056 - 03/25/12 02:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I managed to put the tray in the fridge :smile: luckily I have a big one. A cold shock will be benefical, I guess


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #15998188 - 03/26/12 11:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You have been underrating your fridge.:smile:
Bravo Atricoz! Very well! :thumbup:
Now we wanna see your fruits.:mushroom2:

IslandFungi
Yes, Lepista stem butts grow well in wet cardboard.
I love seeing photos of blewit growing attempts.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: ILBIACCO]
    #16001686 - 03/27/12 01:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think I had a few here..









First time I picked em and half the bush was destroyed for a development. I'll check in the spring to see if they came back....been a couple years. They might have recovered.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Peterthinks]
    #16002290 - 03/27/12 06:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

uhm, are you sure that all of these specimen are L.nuda? Only the first one looks like it, the others look like Cortinarius specimen, similar to C.traganus and close species. In the last pic, it's possible to see some traces of veil on the specimens on the right side


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16005667 - 03/27/12 09:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

yeah I was thinking the same thing, those are corts.
I hope noone ate those.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16007432 - 03/28/12 09:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

both the violet cortinarius and conifer-lilac continarius are edible, just aren't the tastiest. Anyhow, I hope the Blewitt growing is going well!


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #16010880 - 03/28/12 09:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah the others were just in with the pic of the first one, wasn't sure about the purple thick one, first and last time I saw them. That was a couple years ago. No I didn't eat any of them, I'm not familiar enough with them to try it.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Peterthinks]
    #16014746 - 03/29/12 06:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry, I thought all corts were to be avoided.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16014839 - 03/29/12 06:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bambus said:
Sorry, I thought all corts were to be avoided.



they say that in feild guides for just the reason illustrated above, an edible cortinarius and a poisonous one need a skilled eye to differentiate. There are a few edible ones and cortinarius caperatus is choice


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: SomeGuy]
    #16088566 - 04/14/12 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:sad:
Where are the fruits?
Java, Atricoz,
how are your attempts going?
:sad:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: ILBIACCO]
    #16088744 - 04/14/12 11:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

For the record, I did finally convince myself of what
Lipa nailed in a second....I was cultivating some contaminant.

I did start with an actual f'ing Blewit (!):


...and I still have the spore print to restart.

In the meanwhile, Atricoz kindly sent me a sample
of the genetics that he is working with (arrived
yesterday bro. Grazie tanto!) and I have started
new agar plates with that.  (it arrived clean BTW ;0)

This thread is not going to fully die until I am
eating my purple harvest!

Take care, and thank you for checking.

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16092689 - 04/15/12 09:46 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Nice news that you received the plate :cool:

Anyway, that's how my tray looks now. Very purple and less fluffy spots appeared, maybe they could prelude to pinning initiation?
Who knows? In the meanwhile I'm continuing to keep the tray humid.
I'll keep the thread updated :thumbup:









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Edited by atricoz (04/15/12 06:39 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16092952 - 04/15/12 10:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well they look wonderful.  This is a mystery until we
find what they need to fruit.  I think that I will also do
filter patch sacks....I have found that waiting until
I see pins before opening my sacks has worked to coax
fruits from some more resistant species.

Do keep us in touch, and thank you again for helping
me restart this species.

I will be revisiting my spore print, out of curiosity, too.

Take care,

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16093940 - 04/15/12 04:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Just realized I have a 3/4 colonized bag of L. nuda, and no clue what to do next. :grin:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16094066 - 04/15/12 05:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Terry,

We do not have a confirmed as successful approach here yet.

...atricoz has used trays.  I am going to try fruiting
from the sack.  You might beat me to that...

Good luck, and let us know what comes of it.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16094413 - 04/15/12 07:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hey team,

just short, I'm tired...

Lets look at how french companies fruit their Lepista cultures. Unfortunately they have to spell even the scientific names differently, so one has to search for 'pied bleu cultiver' to find something.

http://www.acbx41.com/article-31923831.html
More Pics:
http://troglos.free.fr/dossiers_val_de_loire/dossier_vdl_carriere_champi/chapitre_10/dossier.html

Surprisingly, they have massive overlay, which seems to be no obstacle.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16094522 - 04/15/12 07:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
Hey team,

just short, I'm tired...

Lets look at how french companies fruit their Lepista cultures. Unfortunately they have to spell even the scientific names differently, so one has to search for 'pied bleu cultiver' to find something.

http://www.acbx41.com/article-31923831.html





The top of my culture looks like these! It's still sealed in the bag and uncased, and has a lower corner still colonizing.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16094642 - 04/15/12 08:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
Hey team,

just short, I'm tired...

Lets look at how french companies fruit their Lepista cultures. Unfortunately they have to spell even the scientific names differently, so one has to search for 'pied bleu cultiver' to find something.

http://www.acbx41.com/article-31923831.html
More Pics:
http://troglos.free.fr/dossiers_val_de_loire/dossier_vdl_carriere_champi/chapitre_10/dossier.html

Surprisingly, they have massive overlay, which seems to be no obstacle.

Carsten




Formidable! 

Merci frere.

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16096348 - 04/16/12 05:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Very very interesting
Merci beaucoup
and i m glad to see that your attempts are still ongoing.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: ILBIACCO]
    #16105320 - 04/18/12 05:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So... as everything points to low temps for pinning... shouldn't we think about getting our hands on a warm weather strain of L. nuda, at least for indoor experiments?

Carsten


Edited by Mycelio (04/18/12 06:52 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16105938 - 04/18/12 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Good point.

This makes my failure from spores even more disappointing...

I figure that a wild find specimen from Southern California
might be a good place to start.

I have said that I would restart from spores as well
as from Atricoz' generously shared genetics.  I will
have to see this done.

If anyone else has heard of a warmer weather blewit,
then please do chime in.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16106162 - 04/18/12 11:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Idk if anyone has seen this purdue study comparing L. nuda from europe and australia by cultivating both types. Of course the warm weather type grew much quicker than the cold weather ones. It also suggest a cold shock to induce fruiting.

I have been considering cloning one as they are ubiquitous here in california, I will check my local patches today for a good specimen.

Thanks for sharing all the info about this beautiful though overlooked species!


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #16108365 - 04/18/12 09:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I was indeed thinking about this publication and the australian strains they mention. On a second thought... the climate in New South Wales shouldn't differ too much from that in California.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16110036 - 04/19/12 04:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This thread is really inspiring. I just want to say thank you. I would like to experiment with this species when I get settled in.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Dancing Cloud]
    #16140502 - 04/26/12 01:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

A warm weather strain... like hawaii?  Lol so my specimen is actually lepista tarda, closely related to lepista nuda.  It fruited in 75F day and 68F nights.  I have a pretty weak looking culture on agar but i thin it just doesn't like my PDA media, when place in a jar it takes off nicely.

I just got my first fully colonized bag so i'll probably spawn it out to a few different methods next week.  I'm thinking a few manure/hay bags and a few compost. 

Check out how purple my bag is getting!



Sadly i never got to eat any from the original collection but the guy who picked them gave them a thumbs up.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: IslandFungi]
    #16142097 - 04/26/12 12:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Nice work!

Thanks for sharing,

JD

P.S. You did better than my first try...that was Lepista nota!


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16145880 - 04/27/12 06:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, looking good, IslandFungi!

The confusing thing about L. tarda is that some authors say its taste and smell would be much less aromatic, compared to L. nuda. Let's hope L. tarda is really easier to fruit and you can clear that up soon.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16152805 - 04/28/12 09:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have a small patch of Blewit here in So Cal that I just picked and printed. Did not give me a lot of spores. Was reading this thread hoping to glean some info about cultivating. Sounds like a challenge. Nice work guys!



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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16160195 - 04/30/12 01:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So I'm thinking that this could be cased now:



It has been growing in the bag for about 6 weeks at 70 degrees F. I would case it with an inch of 40% garden store topsoil which I have hanging around and 60% Canadian sphagnum peat, buffered with calcium carbonate. I have a mini-greenhouse which is cooled to a constant 59 degrees F.

Sound like it's worth a shot? Any suggestions?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16160237 - 04/30/12 02:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What kind of substrate is that? It look like sawdust. If I'm right, maybe it could be a good think to use it as spawn for a better substrate (i'd prepare one with mostly peat, dry leaves, straw and a little of manure). Seems like L.nuda likes poorer substrates than used with A.bisporus.
59F seems to be a good temperature for fruiting(at least, in theory). I guess a cold shocking would be benefical, too.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16160373 - 04/30/12 02:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

atricoz said:
What kind of substrate is that? It look like sawdust. If I'm right, maybe it could be a good think to use it as spawn for a better substrate (i'd prepare one with mostly peat, dry leaves, straw and a little of manure). Seems like L.nuda likes poorer substrates than used with A.bisporus.
59F seems to be a good temperature for fruiting(at least, in theory). I guess a cold shocking would be benefical, too.



Yes, it is sawdust and bran. Interesting idea! Could I sterilize bags of the substrate you recommend, or just Pasteurize them? I'm suspecting they should be Pasteurized. Any composting required? I've never grown Agaricus so I've not dealt with this (to me) intimidating process.


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Edited by Terry M (04/30/12 02:53 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16160520 - 04/30/12 03:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

We are in the same place Terry.  I am really just getting going
with composted subs.  I did make my first straw compost and am
trying some King Stropharia on it.  (it seems too wet and is going
slowly, but is it also not contaminating)

The upside is that you can do alot with that much "super" spawn.

I have L.n. on grains, and not the contam I started off with (grazzi Atricoz)
so I hope to be in the same place in just a bit.

Good luck,

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16160556 - 04/30/12 03:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
Yes, it is sawdust and bran. Interesting idea! Could I sterilize bags of the substrate you recommend, or just Pasteurize them? I'm suspecting they should be Pasteurized. Any composting required? I've never grown Agaricus so I've not dealt with this (to me) intimidating process.





Pasteurization will work well, sterilization is not recommended for this species (as far as I read). A composting is highly recommended, too.

By the way, how do you cool down your greenhouse?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16160678 - 04/30/12 03:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Rats, I guess I'll have to learn how to compost. All that phase 1 and phase 2 stuff!

I cool my mini-greenhouse with a Royal Sovereign 9,000 BTU stand-alone portable air conditioner which sits inside. There is a flexible duct that conducts the warmer air out of the greenhouse. The air conditioner has a lowest setting of 59 degrees F. And I also have a Zoo Med HygroTherm Humidity and Temperature Controller used to control humidity only with a Zoo Med Reptile Fogger. With this, I can maintain the humidity at up to 95%.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16160992 - 04/30/12 04:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hey, great JD!

JD and atricoz, I've got all the ingredients for atricoz's compost. Can this be used for other compost-loving mushrooms, like Agaricus and Coprinus? I might as well make a substantial pile of it since I'm going to the trouble. What about proportions of the ingredients? I can do anything you guys recommend. Even a guess at proportions would be appreciated, as I am a complete newbie on this.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16161185 - 04/30/12 05:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hey Terry,

Do you have a copy of the older Stamets book "The Mushroom Cultivator"?

It goes into the various composting techniques. (yes, ugh, I and II)

I can say that I used straw and added manure and a bit of nitrogen
rich fertilizer, as my straw was not the urine loaded stall muck that
Stamets refers to and my manure was very aged and not likely to have
the N desired.

One thing that I cannot address, and that pertains to your question,
is whether this species needs/wants a compost sub just for the
various nutrient balances, or whether it also needs the "living
organisms" to stimulate fruiting.  This would answer the pasteurization
vs. sterilization issue.

When I turned my pile the first time, I found the desired ammonia
smell, but not so much on subsequent turns.  I am not sure how it
turned out and am going to just try it out.  The truth will tell.

Good luck,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16161389 - 04/30/12 05:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

JD: Yes, have The Mushroom Cultivator. Compost will be my bedtime reading tonight. :smile:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16164168 - 05/01/12 06:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
Can this be used for other compost-loving mushrooms, like Agaricus and Coprinus?





Stamets talks about blewit cultivation on "The Mushroom Cultivator", saying that could be used about the same compost formula (horse manure-based). I used a similar formula for my experiment (mostly cow manure), and colonization occured, but I noticed that mycelium liked the casing layer far more than the substrate itself.
I read some information on some french sites about L.nuda cultivation, since they are the only one cultivating it industrially. For instance, here they say that substrate is about 60% peat and 40% soil. Pretty poorer for the nitrogen-rich used for A.bisporus.
So, probably you could use it also for other species, but you'll have poorer yields.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16164186 - 05/01/12 06:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

atricoz said:
I read some information on some french sites about L.nuda cultivation, since they are the only one cultivating it industrially. For instance, here they say that substrate is about 60% peat and 40% soil. Pretty poorer for the nitrogen-rich used for A.bisporus.
So, probably you could use it also for other species, but you'll have poorer yields.



Looks to me like the French site was talking about the peat and soil mixture for the casing layer, not the substrate. From my little experience with casing, it seems like this can be critical to fruiting, more so than the substrate itself.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16164545 - 05/01/12 09:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

This might also tend to suggest that a sterilized sub with a pasteurized
casing layer will work.

This is what I will do, along with other options, as I proceed.

I intend to have several attempts going to allow for variation.

Good stuff!

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16164891 - 05/01/12 11:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
Looks to me like the French site was talking about the peat and soil mixture for the casing layer, not the substrate. From my little experience with casing, it seems like this can be critical to fruiting, more so than the substrate itself.




oops, sorry, seems like I should take some new lessons of french  :wow:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16164934 - 05/01/12 11:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Would it help to replicate the natural growing environment? Maybe use some of the soil for substrate and case with conifer duff.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: duff monkey]
    #16166462 - 05/01/12 04:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'd like to try composting, but I don't have anywhere near the materials for the 6-foot wide pile which Stamets specifies for both long composting and short composting phase I. In fact, I've only got 25 pounds of horse manure, plus the proportional amounts of cottonseed meal and gypsum.

Does anybody think the following trick would work?

Put the manure and cottonseed meal into a laundry basket. Set one of my mini-greenhouses to heat up to 110 degrees F, which is the temperature of the outermost composting zone (zone 1). Set up a reasonably powerful fan inside for good ventilation. Follow the directions for short composting phase I, adding the gypsum when specified. Phase II is basically aerobic pasteurization with a long cool-down period, and I think I could improvise something for this small an amount of sub.

Whether this works is wholly dependent on whether or not the outer temperature, set for zone 1, will induce microbial activity such that there will be hotter inner zones. This won't work if the inner temperature gradient for composting is determined strictly by the scale and compression of the material. I don't know enough about the temperature generation mechanism to know.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16167199 - 05/01/12 07:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hey Terry,

I am new to composting too, so lets hope that Lipa or a cultivator
with similar composting experience chimes in...but I think that your
laundry basket could work.

I am reminded of where a steel drum, with holes cut all over it,
can be rolled about the yard to do the required mixing.

I think that you ought to be able to put it outside and let the
micro-organisms do the heating.

Are you able, or desiring, to use straw?  I have not heard of meal
being used in composting (but I have heard that most anything can
be used, so it must be possible)

There is a nutrient computation (C to N) that is beyond me at this
point, but that could be used to tell if your mix is appropriate.

If no one chimes in, then I say give it a go.

Good luck,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16167372 - 05/01/12 07:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hi JD,

Yes, I've read about the carbon to nitrogen ratio being important. That's why I'm sticking with one of the two proven compost recipes from TMC. One has horse manure, and the other has straw. The horse manure recipe uses cottonseed meal, which I have on hand. The straw recipe used chicken manure, which I don't have.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16168104 - 05/01/12 10:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Ah ha....you are way ahead of me bro.

Good luck!

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16170212 - 05/02/12 10:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

As you are speaking about the compost recipes in TMC, in my copy Formula 1 on page 82 got an error in the wet weight of cottonseed meal. It says 30 instead of 130 pounds. Somehow the leading digit must have gone lost.

Terry, your laundry basket idea should work, but might require some observation and playing around with FAE and external heat. The core heat will be generated by the metabolic activity of the microbes, burning carbohydrates to CO2 and H2O. If you reach full temperature will depend on the substrate mass/diameter vs. surface area and of course the amount of oxygen, getting in there.

In case your horse manure is already aged, you may just skip composting completely.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16171685 - 05/02/12 03:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelio said:
As you are speaking about the compost recipes in TMC, in my copy Formula 1 on page 82 got an error in the wet weight of cottonseed meal. It says 30 instead of 130 pounds. Somehow the leading digit must have gone lost.

Terry, your laundry basket idea should work, but might require some observation and playing around with FAE and external heat. The core heat will be generated by the metabolic activity of the microbes, burning carbohydrates to CO2 and H2O. If you reach full temperature will depend on the substrate mass/diameter vs. surface area and of course the amount of oxygen, getting in there.

In case your horse manure is already aged, you may just skip composting completely.

Carsten



Thanks, Carsten!

I didn't notice the error in TMC. The wet weight is less than the dry weight! :smile:

So if my horse manure is already aged (which it is), I don't have to compost??? And the carbon to nitrogen ratio only important if you are composting, because it provides the correct environment for microbe growth?

So assuming that I don't have to compost, I can mix straw, aged horse manure, and whatever together because I no longer have to please the microbes. But of course it is still recommended to pasteurize it, correct? I was just this minute going to start setting up my heated greenhouse for composting, so you've saved me a bunch of work. :thumbup:

- Terry


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16172513 - 05/02/12 06:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Oops, I wasn't precise. What I meant is you can use pure aged horse manure without the other ingredients, pasteurization should be enough then. It wouldn't give maximum yield, but enough for such a pilot experiment.

If you want to use the complete mixture, you have to sterilize or compost, but not knowing if L. nuda will fruit at all or how far composted the manure already is, I wouldn't spend too much time and electricity.

Generally, you can see composting as a cool way to use up simple carbohydrates, while keeping a maximum of nitrogen fixed in microbial biomatter, plus the microbes synthesize vitamins, lipids etc. and make it harder for mold to grow.

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16182850 - 05/04/12 07:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

At this moment, I am sterilizing four filter patch bags to try with my L. nuda grain spawn. I chose the substrates on the basis of discussions on this thread, plus Stamets' TMC. These are:

#1: atricoz-like mixture -- 50% peat, 20% leaf mulch, 20% straw, 10% aged horse manure.
#2: 100% aged horse manure.
#3: 50% aged horse manure, 50% straw.
#4: 50% leaf mulch, 50% hardwood sawdust.

Too late to change it. :smile:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16184411 - 05/05/12 01:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for sharing Terry.

Your variation of materials will teach us all a great deal.

I have the genetics that atricoz sent me on grains and am right behind you.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16185299 - 05/05/12 10:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Still chipping away at it....

After my failures with the filter patch bags I decided to try qt. jars of fruiting substrate.

      Fruiting Substrate:

40% spent oyster blocks (hardwood sawdust/straw/woodchips mixture)
40% aged horse manure
10% straw
10% ground hardwood leaves
+ worm castings
+ gypsum

        Casing Layer:

60% bagged Topsoil
10% ground hardwood leaves
10% verm
10% lime
10% gypsum


qt. jars


scooped out 6 jars into a bucket, its fully colonized but the myc is hardly discernable. I didn't wait for any recovery, just cased it.


3 days later. myc pokin' through




5 days later (incubating at 70deg F.)

Its now sitting in the fridge at a steady 45deg F.
After 24hrs of cold shock and dark period.
I'm gonna stick it in the FC and give it some fairly intense light
(daylight CFL).


Also cased a few jars. Finally some thick rhizomorphic growth!


And some nice lavender hues in the myc. (it doesn't show well in the pic)


almost there

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16185855 - 05/05/12 01:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hey, this is cool!

Terry, great idea! I'm looking forward to reading how these substrates do in comparison.

Bambus, your cultures look healthy and vigorous. Lets hope your FC is cool enough.
Did your earlier pins develop during storage in the fridge for a longer period of time?

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16186121 - 05/05/12 02:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Mycelio,

The pins did not mature any more than what I posted earlier, but this project is that strain, so I'm very hopeful.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16187035 - 05/05/12 06:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Sure, I assumed, you would use that strain. I asked because I was wondering about the exact conditions, leading to your pinning mycelium. Back then you wrote 45 - 60F (~7 - 16°C), which perfectly matches theory. Looking at the temperature range, I guess the agar jars haven't been in a fridge and got some light, while air exchange was low. Do you remember how long it took from full colonization to pinning?

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16187818 - 05/05/12 09:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Mycelio,

Just found that plate, it was made on 9/15/11.
It probably took 2 months to fully colonize.
I posted the pics on 2/10/11, but the pins were there a couple of weeks before that.
So they probably pinned about 2 months or so after the plate was fully colonized.

you are spot on, the agar jars were never put in the fridge, just stored in the basement with very low light and also low air exchange.

My bucket in the fridge now is in those same conditions now.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16189348 - 05/06/12 08:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the details, Bambus!

Wow, two months is very long. As Atricoz wrote about finding his pins on a pretty old plate in the fridge, I guess it also took months for him.

Lets hope things went slower on agar and the trays will fruit much faster. At least we know now that pinning doesn't need much FAE and light, just low temps for weeks, while the later development of the fruitbodies obviously requires more FAE/light.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16189929 - 05/06/12 11:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Some new cool pics here :smile: ,this thread is becoming more interesting every day.
After a 10 days cold shock my tray look like this:



with a strong overlay on the casing layer; as you can see peat color is almost no longer visible. Although this seems to don't cause problems to french cultivators, I decided to spread another casing layer over it, just untreated potting soil. I'll update in the next weeks.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16196049 - 05/07/12 06:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hey everyone, I've been following this thread for awhile now, I'm trying to grow Lepista nuda as well. I think this thread has the most information on L.nuda cultivation than any page on the web so I thought I would just post here rather than creating a new one.

I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out what's going on with my culture. It seemed to have stalled and then sectored out.

Here's my culture, This picture was taken on 5/5, it was inoculated with a tissue sample from the original fruit on 4/5 :grin:

It's peroxided MEA

And the fruit it came from


The temp dropped to about 65 (I've been able to keep them around 75) about a week before it happened (I don't think that's it, but it does show zones associated with temp change). Maybe it's the multiple strains from the original culture just becoming more visible or could it be reaching senescence? The plates I made from it look like there's multiple sectors as well but don't have the irregular growth like this one. I wonder if it has something to do with the peroxide why it didn't effect it until 2 or 3 weeks later.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: IndigoSky]
    #16285231 - 05/25/12 09:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Here's another update. Mycelium is growing pretty well through the untreated potting soil layer, with absolutely no contamination visible (funnily I had some green mold in the previous pasteurized casing layer)





But the interesting news is here. Along a tray's wall, I noticed these little spots, that exactly look like the pins I found in my petri dish. They're appeared just over some rhizomorphs. I'm going to monitor them to see if they'll grow or not. Anyway, I won't be too hopeful :rolleyes:



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Edited by atricoz (05/25/12 10:09 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16285432 - 05/25/12 10:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the update Atricoz.

I have your L.n. genetics on fully colonized grains.

I expanded the first round and will have about 8 quarts to try experiments with.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16286904 - 05/26/12 09:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the status of my four substrates as of 5/26/12. They were inoculated on 5/5/12.

Here they are, numbers 1-4, in order.



Numbers 2 and 3 are the most colonized, and they had the most horse manure, 100% and 50% respectively.

Regards,
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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16286920 - 05/26/12 09:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Wow...it looks as if my standard formula might be the best to start with..
(80/20 hpoo/verm plus supplements)

Great stuff Terry.  Thanks for the update.

JD

P.S. I seem to be starting threads, only to bring up the rear, too
often these days.  ...but I am happy to have the help in figuring out
these species.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16287011 - 05/26/12 10:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well, threads like this one seem to bring up our cooperative spirit, so feel free to start more.

@Terry
Thanks for posting your results! The effect of horse manure on colonization is quite impressing.

@IndigoSky
I hope you are still listening! Your mycelium may have problems with MEA as food source, try adding yeast extract and/or peptone, though adding tea from boiled horse manure should be more effective.

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16339988 - 06/06/12 08:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's been a month since the four substrates were inoculated. #1 and #4 have stalled, without much mycelial growth. Here are the finalists.



#2  100% aged horse manure.




#3  50% aged horse manure, 50% straw.


Time to case! I missed my previous casing opportunity with the sawdust/bran sub back a while ago. We'd gotten off track in our discussion here when I wanted to case it. :foreheadslap: That one looked as good as #3, if not better:

But it died back when it wasn't cased.

I decided to use peat moss casing, as per Stamets' TMC. But damnit, both my air conditioners are in the shop!


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Edited by Terry M (06/06/12 08:53 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16340475 - 06/06/12 11:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds good Terry.

For my part, I have six quarts of spawn and will be making a range of
subs in the next couple of days. 

Today I am preparing and spawning to sawdust sacks, supplemented
sawdust sacks, and hpoo sub sacks.

(everything from H. abietas and Miatake to Semperviva and zapotecorum)

19 hpoo sacks, 9 sawdust, and 7 supplemented wood mulch.

I will use one of the SD and one of the SWM subs each for two of my
L. nuda spawn jars.

With the other four I will follow your lead and vary the formulas
to help gather data on what works well.  I have some composted straw
in the back yard that I would like to use also.  It was made too wet
in the recent past and is a gooey mess, but I am going to let some
dry out today which should allow me to mix it with other materials better.

Good luck bro.  Those two sacks look ready!

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16348163 - 06/07/12 08:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: wbastz]
    #16355192 - 06/09/12 08:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hello All,

I'm afraid of missing my opportunity to case bags #2 and #3. The AC repair shop had said that Royal Sovereign was notoriously slow and unpredictable in delivering replacement parts. So I just moved these bags to my "standard" culture refrigerator, which is kept at about 34º F (1º C). I could put them in my 52º F (11º C) tropicals fridge, but I'm afraid this temp could confuse the mycelium into pinning, but without the necessary light and air exchange.

When my air conditioners return, I'll case and put them in a 59º F (15º C) FC. I'm planning on casing with 20 parts Canadian sphagnum peat moss to one part calcium sulfate (gypsum) and one part calcium carbonate (chalk). See GGMM chapter 20. I'm going to wet this with water in which nice, bacteria-rich outdoor dirt has been soaked (Where did I read this???).

- Terry


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16358045 - 06/09/12 09:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Good Luck Terry

I gave up and dumped both of my bucket into an outdoor bed.
I tried activated carbon in the casing of the second bucket, the myc grew very vigorously through the casing, but it was not successful.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16376428 - 06/13/12 03:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I got my free-standing air conditions back from the repair shop today. I set one up in its usual place, in the mini-greenhouse where I put my cold-loving species. So it was time to take the two L. nuda bags, #2 and #3, out of the fridge! I first cut off the bag tops.




Then cased them with the peat moss mixture I mentioned before.




Finally, I popped them into the greenhouse, which is now controlled to 59 degrees F and 85% humidity.



The air conditioner is at the bottom right, and that's a dehumidifier next to it. The air conditioner can increase the humidity to the point where dehumidification is required, depending on what humidity you desire.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16377022 - 06/13/12 06:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Great setup Terry.

I have high hopes for this effort.

I am just spawning my first sacks this week.

I am using my standard hpoo+verm sub and a supplemented wood mulch formulas so far.

Good luck,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16381608 - 06/14/12 04:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nice setup; temperature seems to be extreme important for this species. I guess I've had no luck due to too high temps; unluckily I can't control it and now here is becoming to be very hot. I guess I'm going to bury my tray somewhere, and wait for fall.
Good luck with your project, and keep this thread updated! :thumbup:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16451960 - 06/28/12 04:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I've got a little wispy, blue-tinged white mycelium on the casing surface of bag #3!

Of course, atricoz got this far. :frown: We haven't heard from him, so I assume no fruits formed.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16453041 - 06/28/12 09:00 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Good news all the same Terry.

I am right behind you and will be casing a block before too long.

I want to leave one uncased for longer, and will, as I have many
to work with.

Good luck,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16454452 - 06/29/12 03:10 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
I've got a little wispy, blue-tinged white mycelium on the casing surface of bag #3!

Of course, atricoz got this far. :frown: We haven't heard from him, so I assume no fruits formed.




Unluckily I didn't have any fruit. In my opinion, this was mainly because of too high temperatures, I never got below 66°F, while best temperature would be 55-59° F.
Now I'm letting my tray dry, then I'll try to re-hydrate on late fall. I just hope it will be still alive :smile:
I'm not going to surrender so easily :evil:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: atricoz]
    #16455503 - 06/29/12 12:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

We're holding pretty steady at 92% humidity, 55 degrees F temperature! #3 bag mycelium appears happy (but isn't talking much). #2 bag may be showing a tiny bit of mycelium on the casing layer, though I'm not sure just yet.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16499315 - 07/08/12 01:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

May have tiny white pins:



This is substrate bag #3, which had the most aggressive growth. But I'm also seeing this on bag #2, which has hardly any mycelium coming through the casing layer.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16499618 - 07/08/12 02:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Good news Terry.

That is the casing layer, right?

It looks like you have been holding off on the spraying.

Very cool.  Thanks for sharing.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16499907 - 07/08/12 06:09 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Yup, that's the casing. I'm not spraying because when I did, it looked like I was disturbing the delicate mycelium. I keep the humidity close to 100% instead. And the temperature is held down around 58 degrees.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16500129 - 07/08/12 07:39 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
And the temperature is held down around 58 degrees.




I envy your degree of control.

I have a mobile air conditioner unit, something like this,
but I will need to be making more money before I can argue
effectively about the change to our power bill.

Some day...

Nice work!

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16503181 - 07/09/12 10:42 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Very good Terry!
I'm confused by the tiny white particles in the casing material, so I guess the larger, out of focus ones are primordia, but anyway... good work and fabulous climate control!

Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Mycelio]
    #16504139 - 07/09/12 03:01 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Good work man!  Can't wait to see how this goes


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: t3chnobily]
    #16508416 - 07/10/12 09:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

My wife, who unlike me, has excellent vision, reports that all of the tiny little white things look squarish. That means that they are part of the peat moss casing mix, and not pins. :frown:  I thought I saw a lot of round ones, but I was wrong.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #16508635 - 07/10/12 10:49 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry to hear that Terry.  I have high hopes for your efforts. 
You are still leading on this.

I also have less than perfect vision.  I do not use glasses, but a friend
gave me a pair of magnifiers that I use when reading small print.

It is funny when I see things in my high resolution photos that I missed
with the naked eye.

My L. nuda blocks are at varying degress of colonization and some
are consolidating.  I will be along shortly.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16742241 - 08/27/12 10:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: wbastz]
    #16745623 - 08/27/12 11:24 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

No, but it is interesting.  ...only available in their store though.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16755637 - 08/29/12 06:19 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Any updates on anyones grows? I'm interested to hear how it's turning out.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: IndigoSky]
    #16757489 - 08/30/12 12:12 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

My first block is still in the GH.

I also buried one in the front yard for fun.

Several others are past ready for a casing layer. 

There is still hope.

JD

P.S. I am still hoping that my real account get fixed.  I wrote to
Ythan, but he must be hella busy these days.


Edited by JayDeeWho (08/30/12 12:12 AM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: JayDeeWho]
    #16774200 - 09/02/12 12:31 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JayDeeWho said:
P.S. I am still hoping that my real account get fixed.  I wrote to
Ythan, but he must be hella busy these days.




Good to see you around, JD!  I was wondering what happened to you.  Hope you get your main account restored soon . . . sorry for the OT post.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: OICU812]
    #16832922 - 09/12/12 02:20 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OICU812 said:
Quote:

JayDeeWho said:
P.S. I am still hoping that my real account get fixed.  I wrote to
Ythan, but he must be hella busy these days.




Good to see you around, JD!  I was wondering what happened to you.  Hope you get your main account restored soon . . . sorry for the OT post.




Thanks OICU.  (my thread, my rules ;0)

I am back, just this evening. 

A second L. nuda block is in the greenhouse, and another is buried
out in the backyard, so the hope continues.

We all know that if any of us get a fruit, a pin, anything, then
he/she will be letting the rest of us know.

Take care all,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16876100 - 09/19/12 06:39 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Finally! I got my first cultivated Lepista nuda!
When my bucket projects failed to produce indoors, I dumped them
outside in a bed of straw, hardwood leaves, H-manure, grass clippings, and woodchips. The bed is only about 2'x3' and 4" high.

Only one fruit, but its a nice one!



bambus


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16876166 - 09/19/12 06:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:nice, betcha get some more when it gets cooler, :cheers:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: falcon]
    #16876340 - 09/19/12 07:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yep, I'm also sure there will be more coming.

Anyway, considering the usual success rate with L. nuda, even one mushroom is quite an outstanding result. Congratulations Bambus!

Cheers, Carsten


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16876810 - 09/19/12 08:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bambus said:
Finally! I got my first cultivated Lepista nuda!
When my bucket projects failed to produce indoors, I dumped them
outside in a bed of straw, hardwood leaves, H-manure, grass clippings, and woodchips. The bed is only about 2'x3' and 4" high.

Only one fruit, but its a nice one!



bambus




We have a winner!  Hoo hoo!

Congrats Bambus.

For my part, I have a case block sitting in my GH, giving me the
invisible myco-finger. :0)

I will keep at it until I see fruits.

Take a sample to clone those good genetics.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16878676 - 09/20/12 05:40 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Congratulations on your work, bambus.:mushroom2:
If i were you i would occasionally feed the bed with other leaves, woodchips and why not, pieces of paper, cardboard and so on...
What do you think to do with your mushroom?  Will you take a sample to clone? Or will you let it grow and spread the spores for a better propagation? I don't know what is the best option .:confused:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16878984 - 09/20/12 09:26 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Nice work bambus !!!

Could you tell us something about the ambient temperatures ?

Wilson


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: wbastz]
    #16880621 - 09/20/12 03:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the comments everyone!
The ambient temps were 50-60F Lows and 70-80F Highs, when this one pinned.
I've been too busy lately to do any culturing, so no I did not clone it, but if it pins again I'll do my best to clone it to agar and send out some wedges to those interested. 

:cheers:

bambus


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #16880657 - 09/20/12 03:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah....I have been hanging on with my blocks, looking toward cooler
temps where I live.  It is blazing these day. 

...but the Blazei and Volvariellas love it.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #16880720 - 09/20/12 03:59 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:

...but the Blazei and Volvariellas love it.




just saw these in the other thread, wow

bambus


Edited by bambus (09/20/12 04:03 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #18201234 - 05/02/13 09:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm just getting some right now! Fruiting indoors from a bag:



And they're really blew! Err, blue!


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #18202148 - 05/02/13 01:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:drooling:Beautiful! What's in the bag?


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: falcon]
    #18202264 - 05/02/13 01:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
:drooling:Beautiful! What's in the bag?




Sawdust substrate: 24 parts mixed hardwood sawdust, 2 parts wheat bran, 1 part gypsum.

Casing: 20 parts Canadian sphagnum peat moss, 1 part gypsum, 1 part calcium carbonate (chalk). Moistened with fresh soil water.

All quantities are by volume.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #18202507 - 05/02/13 02:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
I'm just getting some right now! Fruiting indoors from a bag:



And they're really blew! Err, blue!




:hammertime:

Dude!  Finally.  Yes! 

Great work.

It does seem to have popped out of a fairly standard element....any
clues as to what sparked this?

Is this a new strain?

A wedge might be in order.  :0)

Carry on.

JD

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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #18202753 - 05/02/13 03:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks guys!

I don't know what I did right. :smile: I put it under shiitake temp and humidity conditions. It was fairly slow. According to my records, it was 21 days to fully colonize the grain jar, and from bag inoculation to pinning took 38 days. It fruited from the sides, so it probably needed more humidity than shiitake.

This strain came from Mushroom Mountain spawn. I thought I'd contaminated this culture, but I got fruit from which I'll make a clean culture. I wouldn't feel right about giving it away, as Tradd is a real good guy. Buy some of his spawn!


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Edited by Terry M (05/02/13 08:56 PM)


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #18203012 - 05/02/13 04:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Fair enough.  Thank you for specifying the source.

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #18204160 - 05/02/13 07:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Terry M said:
Quote:

falcon said:
:drooling:Beautiful! What's in the bag?




Sawdust substrate: 24 parts mixed hardwood sawdust, 2 parts wheat bran, 1 part gypsum.

Casing: 20 parts Canadian sphagnum peat moss, 1 part gypsum, 1 part calcium carbonate (chalk). Moistened with fresh soil water.

All quantities are by volume.




First, WAY TO GO!!! Great job Terry.

Second, was your sub sterilized? I just transferred my blewit grain to pasteurized coir/verm/spent sub. Now I'm thinking I should have sterilized it...


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Shu]
    #18204666 - 05/02/13 08:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks!

Yes, Shu. My sub was sterilized. But that's just the way I always do sawdust bags.


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Terry M]
    #18218848 - 05/05/13 06:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:handth: Awesome work Terry! :handth:


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: bambus]
    #18474308 - 06/26/13 12:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bambus said:
:handth: Awesome work Terry! :handth:



Ya no doubt!!

I just got some blew it on grain. I heard its as fast as morel and I gotta say its keeping up!! I will update this thread since its already epic!!


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #18474542 - 06/26/13 01:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Good news Psy.  Good luck with them. 

JD


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Re: Lepista nuda [Re: Javadog]
    #19055038 - 10/30/13 12:32 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

An interesting read.

Im currently working with about 11 different isolates of this mushroom - two traded as isolates, the others isolated from wild multispore streaks - and while the mycelium is cottony and at times mildly grey, Ive never noticed any of the weird colour and characteristics mentioned here.

None of my isolates are rhizomorphic, all are cottony and aerial and while recovery from sectoring is within 48 hours, it grows slowly on MEA.

Outdoor fruiting experiments will involve manure, straw compost and Australian dogwood leaf mulch.

Also trialling Marasmius oreades on manure and rye grass seed.


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