Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Invisiblefortheloveofnature
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 1,321
using coffee in pf jars
    #15773367 - 02/07/12 11:07 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

is it ok to add spent coffee grounds ? and if so how much should i add


--------------------
:kong:TRADE LIST:kong:
sclerotia info
FSPThreads
1-2-3-4


Looking for a confirmed Gymnopilus Luteus print

Gymnopilus sp

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBig Pappa
Challenged
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 717
Loc: Smurf Village Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 17 days
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: fortheloveofnature]
    #15773380 - 02/07/12 11:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

yes its ok... You can add whatever you wish :smile:

Whats important is that you dont get it too wet...  you want field capacity...  If you dont know what that is then you need to read more.

Also, no matter what you end up using, dont pack the jars.  let it stay nice and fluffy in there, or it will take FOREVER to fully colonize!


--------------------


For Sale
Want List
 
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefortheloveofnature
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 1,321
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15773398 - 02/07/12 11:15 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

kk thanks for the advice even if i pack it just a little bit at the top with a little force not very much tho


--------------------
:kong:TRADE LIST:kong:
sclerotia info
FSPThreads
1-2-3-4


Looking for a confirmed Gymnopilus Luteus print

Gymnopilus sp

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: fortheloveofnature]
    #15773493 - 02/07/12 11:43 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fortheloveofnature said:
is it ok to add spent coffee grounds ? and if so how much should i add




No its not. Spent coffee grounds are used in bulk grows. What you want to add is liquid coffee (weak).

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15773498 - 02/07/12 11:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Big Pappa said:
yes its ok... You can add whatever you wish :smile:

Whats important is that you dont get it too wet...  you want field capacity...  If you dont know what that is then you need to read more.

Also, no matter what you end up using, dont pack the jars.  let it stay nice and fluffy in there, or it will take FOREVER to fully colonize!




Spent coffee grounds do not belong in the standard PF TEK. Liquid coffee and gypsum are both good additives.


Edited by kdmmontana (02/07/12 02:39 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefortheloveofnature
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 1,321
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15773517 - 02/07/12 11:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

wat if i already mixed it in i made 2 jars with a lil bit spent coffee grounds and inoculated them already . will i be ok ?


--------------------
:kong:TRADE LIST:kong:
sclerotia info
FSPThreads
1-2-3-4


Looking for a confirmed Gymnopilus Luteus print

Gymnopilus sp

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: fortheloveofnature]
    #15773536 - 02/07/12 11:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fortheloveofnature said:
wat if i already mixed it in i made 2 jars with a lil bit spent coffee grounds and inoculated them already . will i be ok ?




No coffee grounds in PF CAKES! NONE.

You should use coffee, but liquid coffee when you mix the substrate. That and gypsum.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefortheloveofnature
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 1,321
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15773549 - 02/07/12 11:57 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

im asking if i should toss out the jars . are they useless if i already added some of the coffee grounds i will use the liquid in the future but its already a done deal with these 2 jars.


--------------------
:kong:TRADE LIST:kong:
sclerotia info
FSPThreads
1-2-3-4


Looking for a confirmed Gymnopilus Luteus print

Gymnopilus sp

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetr8orjohn
Waiting for an airplane...
Male


Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 162
Loc: Down in...Mexico
Last seen: 12 years, 29 days
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15773553 - 02/07/12 11:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

...why no coffee in BRF cakes? Sure, then it isn't a *traditional* cake, but I don't think the mycelium will mind...


--------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Microbiologist turned mycologist, but still amateur enough to enjoy the occasional surprise...

My Trade List

Terry M said:
Looking for rules that other people use successfully. Sterile procedure is just a set of rules that work.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGalaxie500
Rat Bastard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 284
Loc: Down the road from Jesco
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: tr8orjohn]
    #15773596 - 02/07/12 12:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If this is your absolute first time like your sig says, stay totally away from coffee. It contaminates like a MOTHERFUCKER! Besides, I don't see how you COULD use it in a PF cake. You sterilize PF jars after they are filled. You DON'T sterilize coffee, you pasteurize it, you'd be doing more harm than good PC-ing it. Substitute liquid coffee for 25% of the water used to make your PF substrate, but stay away from grinds.


--------------------
Tact is for those who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecrimsondrac
Stranger
Registered: 12/09/11
Posts: 493
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: Galaxie500]
    #15773665 - 02/07/12 12:30 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Whether you can or shouldn't is moot.  Why would you in the first place?  The PF tek does not call for it. Why would you want to make something more complicated than it should be?  If you want to experiment, great, we need more pioneers. But don't do it on your first grow and wonder if it is going to work or not. Learn what you are doing first, then you very well may be able to answer your own questions down the road.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: fortheloveofnature]
    #15773682 - 02/07/12 12:35 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fortheloveofnature said:
im asking if i should toss out the jars . are they useless if i already added some of the coffee grounds i will use the liquid in the future but its already a done deal with these 2 jars.




Adding stuff to your substrate that the mycelium wont colonize causes it to contaminate because when you birth those jars that uncolonized part will mold in no time.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBig Pappa
Challenged
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 717
Loc: Smurf Village Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 17 days
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15774038 - 02/07/12 02:04 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Ive added coffee grounds, H-poo, peat, wheat chex, gypsum, straw, and who knows what else to PF jars before and they worked out just fine.

Matter of fact, the BEST PF jars I ever had were a mix of BRF, SPENT COFFEE GROUNDS, Verm, H-Poo and peat, all brought up to field capacity.  They colonized extremely quick, and fruited out beautifully!!

** remarks have been edited out **

Edited by Big Pappa (02/07/12 06:15 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15774184 - 02/07/12 02:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Big Pappa said:
Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

Big Pappa said:
yes its ok... You can add whatever you wish :smile:

Whats important is that you dont get it too wet...  you want field capacity...  If you dont know what that is then you need to read more.

Also, no matter what you end up using, dont pack the jars.  let it stay nice and fluffy in there, or it will take FOREVER to fully colonize!




Stop giving out misinformation to new growers. You know as well as any idiot that spent coffee grounds dont belong in a BRF Cake grow.


:urstupid:

Bullshit!  Ive added coffee grounds, H-poo, peat, wheat chex, gypsum, straw, and who knows what else to PF jars before and they worked out just fine.

Matter of fact, the BEST PF jars I ever had were a mix of BRF, SPENT COFFEE GROUNDS, Verm, H-Poo and peat, all brought up to field capacity.  They colonized extremely quick, and fruited out beautifully!!

DO NOT ACCUSE ME of giving out false information, Im speaking from EXPERIENCE.  No, it is not necessary to add coffee grounds, but thats not what the OP was asking! 

So Take your own advice, and shove it up your ass since you dont appreciate other peoples experience!





If you're going to use coffee in pf tek, use weak liquid coffee to hydrate the rice flour.

"Coffee grinds are a bulk substrate material and great when used with coir, manure, compost, etc., but with grains they only dilute the mix.  Brown rice flour is far more nutritious for mushroom mycelium than coffee grinds.
RR"

This has been debated before and the situation is clear, coffee grinds are not pf cake material. Its far better to add liquid coffee.

"Bullshit!  Ive added coffee grounds, H-poo, peat, wheat chex, gypsum, straw, and who knows what else to PF jars before and they worked out just fine."


I dont care about what you add in your own cakes. Thats not the point. The key to successful cakes lie in a good substrate mix that is balanced and well rounded. Experimental mixing is just fine but hardly anything for a new grower. 

"So Take your own advice, and shove it up your ass since you dont appreciate other peoples experience!"

Its comments like these that lower you significantly. There are far more polite ways to answer.

I am sorry but the record stands; coffee grounds do not belong in BRF cakes. Liquid coffee does and so does gypsum.

I am sorry if I offended you. There, happy?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineboommer
Deforestation Operation


Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 506
Loc: disney world
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15774194 - 02/07/12 02:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

fortheloveofnature said:
wat if i already mixed it in i made 2 jars with a lil bit spent coffee grounds and inoculated them already . will i be ok ?




No coffee grounds in PF CAKES! NONE.

You should use coffee, but liquid coffee when you mix the substrate. That and gypsum.



ive used spent coffee in brf cakes..adds nutrients.


--------------------
"Great minds have purposes, little minds have wishes"
Dont have patience? BUILD A TIME MACHINE...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :regularshroom: :mushroomtwirl: :shroomeryhead: :scaryshroom:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: boommer]
    #15774205 - 02/07/12 02:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

boommer said:
Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

fortheloveofnature said:
wat if i already mixed it in i made 2 jars with a lil bit spent coffee grounds and inoculated them already . will i be ok ?




No coffee grounds in PF CAKES! NONE.

You should use coffee, but liquid coffee when you mix the substrate. That and gypsum.



ive used spent coffee in brf cakes..adds nutrients.




So does liquid coffee, there is no need to use the coffee grounds, in fact I cant see that it would help. As far as I am concerned, liquid coffee belongs in BRF cakes and coffee grounds do not.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineboommer
Deforestation Operation


Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 506
Loc: disney world
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15774218 - 02/07/12 02:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Adding stuff to your substrate that the mycelium wont colonize causes it to contaminate because when you birth those jars that uncolonized part will mold in no time.



this is not the case with spent coffee grounds... as a matter of fact mycelium can colonize with spent coffee grounds alone.


--------------------
"Great minds have purposes, little minds have wishes"
Dont have patience? BUILD A TIME MACHINE...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :regularshroom: :mushroomtwirl: :shroomeryhead: :scaryshroom:

Edited by boommer (02/07/12 02:45 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefortheloveofnature
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 1,321
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15774223 - 02/07/12 02:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

well its okay its better to get different input. well thanks both of u


--------------------
:kong:TRADE LIST:kong:
sclerotia info
FSPThreads
1-2-3-4


Looking for a confirmed Gymnopilus Luteus print

Gymnopilus sp

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,496
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 23 days
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: fortheloveofnature]
    #15774267 - 02/07/12 02:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

here's the thing;
can you use coffee grounds in a pf cake? you can
can you get a ratio of 1:1:2(the golden ratio) no
do you bring a pf cake to "feild capacity"? not if you want it to work, thats too wet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: boommer]
    #15774268 - 02/07/12 02:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

boommer said:
Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Adding stuff to your substrate that the mycelium wont colonize causes it to contaminate because when you birth those jars that uncolonized part will mold in no time.



this is not the case with spent coffee grounds... as a matter of fact mycelium can colonize with spent coffee grounds alone.




I am tired of this discussion. There is a recipe to follow. The only two things I add are liquid coffee and gypsum and that has been greenlighted so far. I am not in here to start a fight about what mycelium will colonize.

There are rules to this hobby, some golden, some not. Some people like to experiment, even me but that doesnt mean experiments relate to common practice, or that it somehow will make growers become better.

For the record, I withdraw my slander of Big Pappa. We are all allowed to be wrong from time to time but what I cant stand is the ever returning hostility that comes around as soon as a smaller argument arises.

New growers do best following the PF TEK and learning the basics, thats my opinion.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekdmmontana
Male

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: SomeGuy]
    #15774288 - 02/07/12 02:57 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SomeGuy said:
here's the thing;
can you use coffee grounds in a pf cake? you can
can you get a ratio of 1:1:2(the golden ratio) no
do you bring a pf cake to "feild capacity"? not if you want it to work, thats too wet.




That doesnt mean coffee grounds have to be added.
Or that they will improve anything. Liquid coffee
can and should be added and it wont disturb the
overall texture and water dispersion.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,496
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 23 days
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15774317 - 02/07/12 03:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm with ya buddy, I always have used half-strength coffee, instead of water.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineboommer
Deforestation Operation


Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 506
Loc: disney world
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15774325 - 02/07/12 03:02 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

boommer said:
Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Adding stuff to your substrate that the mycelium wont colonize causes it to contaminate because when you birth those jars that uncolonized part will mold in no time.



this is not the case with spent coffee grounds... as a matter of fact mycelium can colonize with spent coffee grounds alone.




I am tired of this discussion. There is a recipe to follow. The only two things I add are liquid coffee and gypsum and that has been greenlighted so far. I am not in here to start a fight about what mycelium will colonize.

There are rules to this hobby, some golden, some not. Some people like to experiment, even me but that doesnt mean experiments relate to common practice, or that it somehow will make growers become better.

For the record, I withdraw my slander of Big Pappa. We are all allowed to be wrong from time to time but what I cant stand is the ever returning hostility that comes around as soon as a smaller argument arises.

New growers do best following the PF TEK and learning the basics, thats my opinion.




im not trying to start a fight i just know from personal experiments that coffee grounds work in brf cakes... i know that coffee grounds in brf cakes have not been greenlighted but thats no reason why the op should throw out 2 perfectly good cakes.


--------------------
"Great minds have purposes, little minds have wishes"
Dont have patience? BUILD A TIME MACHINE...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :regularshroom: :mushroomtwirl: :shroomeryhead: :scaryshroom:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBig Pappa
Challenged
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 717
Loc: Smurf Village Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 17 days
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: kdmmontana]
    #15775239 - 02/07/12 06:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Quote:

boommer said:
Quote:

kdmmontana said:
Adding stuff to your substrate that the mycelium wont colonize causes it to contaminate because when you birth those jars that uncolonized part will mold in no time.



this is not the case with spent coffee grounds... as a matter of fact mycelium can colonize with spent coffee grounds alone.




I am tired of this discussion. There is a recipe to follow. The only two things I add are liquid coffee and gypsum and that has been greenlighted so far. I am not in here to start a fight about what mycelium will colonize.

There are rules to this hobby, some golden, some not. Some people like to experiment, even me but that doesnt mean experiments relate to common practice, or that it somehow will make growers become better.

For the record, I withdraw my slander of Big Pappa. We are all allowed to be wrong from time to time but what I cant stand is the ever returning hostility that comes around as soon as a smaller argument arises.

New growers do best following the PF TEK and learning the basics, thats my opinion.




Thank you, I so withdraw my comments..

And I Agree, a new grower should follow a tech to the "T" until they learn the life cycle of mycelium.  But thats not what the OP asked..  I was simply answering his question, not telling him what to do.

also, IMO when using other methods besides the standard PF tech to make jars, Field capacity is what you should go for.


--------------------


For Sale
Want List
 
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEarthBounded
Stranger


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 326
Loc: North america
Last seen: 10 years, 21 days
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: Big Pappa]
    #19038951 - 10/27/13 12:47 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I am struggling with good PF cake yields, I have great lighting and sgfc'c but I am using store bought BRF I am going to switch to grinding my own organic brown rice for starters. I already use gypsum, I keep my cake room at about 77 degrees f but they take like two months to colonize... They fruit and spawn but I know I can do better.

I am curious about the coffee, and the above conversation is very confusing. When using coffee water in a PF jar, do you just replace this 1 part water with watered down coffee? Or can spent grounds( meaning i made coffee with them and they are used ) be used?

Side notes, would peat moss or small amounts of coir be good in a PF style jar?

Thanks for all your help

EB


--------------------
Kundalini and Chakra way of life....

Never give up!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefortheloveofnature
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 1,321
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: EarthBounded]
    #19042470 - 10/27/13 08:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

no coir or peat moss needed (btw peat moss is used as a casing not a substrate) but using coffee grounds are great but you gotta pressure cook it instead of steaming it if you decide to use it. if you need help feel free to pm me i have no problem with answering your questions


--------------------
:kong:TRADE LIST:kong:
sclerotia info
FSPThreads
1-2-3-4


Looking for a confirmed Gymnopilus Luteus print

Gymnopilus sp

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator
Male


Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 7,373
Loc: In the Gills
Last seen: 6 hours, 41 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: using coffee in pf jars [Re: fortheloveofnature]
    #19042484 - 10/27/13 08:10 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

coffee grounds or water isn't going to make them grow any faster. I have never used coffee in anything and got fast 5week grows. Spores can take a really long time to colonize sometimes depending on genetics. If you want faster growth you gotta isolate a clone on some agar IMO


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   OlympusMyco.com No Unicorns Here—Just Quality Bags That Work   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* my giant pf jar experiment Glacius 2,995 5 03/16/02 10:12 AM
by Glacius
* casing with pre used pf tek substrate superpsilyguy 1,490 3 12/16/02 06:16 PM
by Coma of Souls
* do pf jars need air exposure? I_Stain_Blue 2,319 9 08/23/02 09:11 AM
by The_Mad_Hatter
* PRESSURE COOK PF jars of substrate? *DELETED* JOptionPane 1,796 7 09/07/02 05:45 PM
by hyper_dermic
* 16 PF jars Ker-Fuckin plunk!!! estaesPACO 3,192 3 05/23/02 10:50 PM
by tomldp
* Dunking? And a newbie question about my first PF Jars. bytecodez 1,637 8 01/09/03 04:54 PM
by fungusflip
* Lids put on pf jars wrong????????????help!!! Anonymous 639 2 12/10/02 05:49 PM
by TrippingBillies
* How to Inoculate PF jars with mycelium? OJ 2,264 10 12/10/02 08:30 AM
by Audi0

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, hamloaf, cronicr, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
2,864 topic views. 6 members, 109 guests and 22 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2025 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 12 queries.