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OfflineBig Pappa
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Martha setup question *NEW UPDATED WITH PICS*
    #15744675 - 01/31/12 09:01 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

ok, Ive built my "martha" type setup...  and I have to say Im impressed!  I used the pond fogger in a bucket with a fan piped over to it for constant FAE and humidity.  My question is this....

What kind of cycle should I put the pump and fan on??  Right now Ive got the fan running continuously, and the fogger kicking on for 1.5 hours every 3 hours.  Its VERY wet in there lol, but also has a continuous supply of fresh air.

This fogger works great!  Better than ANY ultrasonic humidifier Ive ever seen.

I used a toilet fill valve and an ice maker hookup in the bucket so it will maintain its water level :wink:  Im going for completely automated...

But Ive never been able to produce 100% humidity AND 100% FAE before....  how much is too much??

Should I just let them both run 24 hours a day?  Leave it as is? or would another cycle fit best??


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Offlinethedoc8
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15744727 - 01/31/12 09:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Big Pappa said:
ok, Ive built my "martha" type setup...  and I have to say Im impressed!  I used the pond foger in a bucket with a fan piped over to it for constant FAE and humidity.  My question is this....

What kind of cycle should I put the pump and fan on??  Right now Ive got the fan running continuously, and the foger kicking on for 1.5 hours every 3 hours.  Its VERY wet in there lol, but also has a continuous supply of fresh air.

This foger works great!  Better than ANY ultrasonic humidifier Ive ever seen.

I used a toilet fill valve and an ice maker hookup in the bucket so it will maintain its water level :wink:  Im going for completely automated...

But Ive never been able to produce 100% humidity AND 100% FAE before....  how much is too much??

Should I just let them both run 24 hours a day?  Leave it as is? or would another cycle fit best??




Got to watch the ultrasonic and foger its easy to water log your shit real quick. Point the fog at a wall so it don't drip in the tubs.

I have a good size martha and use a ult sonic and run mine 5 min ever hour to maintain 90 average. I still fan just before fog cycle.

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OfflineBig Pappa
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: thedoc8]
    #15744844 - 01/31/12 09:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, but the way I have this set up I can cut the fog off while leaving the fan running...  no need to manually fan, or even open it up during fruiting at all except to harvest or put more trays in..

I can understand pointing it towards the wall...  I plan on putting some kind of diffuser in it for just that purpose...

But still, back to my original question...  With my automated setup...  How should I control the fan and the fog?


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Offlinejwalt420
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15744894 - 01/31/12 09:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i have my greenhouse set 30 min every 2 hours. i half to change out the towel i use on the bottom every two days...if that helps:popcorn:


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Edited by jwalt420 (01/31/12 09:59 PM)

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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: jwalt420]
    #15744964 - 01/31/12 10:08 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You're going to want to aim for about 85~90% RH in a Martha...  Spiking temporarily to 95%+ and occasionally dropping to ~80% is totally fine...

Just keep tweekin' 'til you've got it dialed in :thumbup:


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Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...

NOTE:  Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone :frown:

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Offlinejwalt420
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #15744980 - 01/31/12 10:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok cool need to know that :whathesaid:
Im taking 10 min off my time :thaaannks:


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OfflineBig Pappa
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: jwalt420]
    #15745074 - 01/31/12 10:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jwalt420 said:
i have my greenhouse set 30 min every 2 hours. i half to change out the towel i use on the bottom every two days...if that helps:popcorn:





Is that 30 minutes every 2 hours with fan and fog? what about the other hour and a half?  just got still air in there??

Ive noticed that during the hour and a half the fan is running by itself the RH drops to around 75-80, but then the fogger kicks on and it quickly jumps back up to near 100% RH for the next hour and a half.  There is FAE coming from the fan the entire time of course... even when the fogger is turned off. 

The humidifier I built is based on THIS design.  I added the float valve to make it automated.  This is NOT a store bought humidifier....


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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15745092 - 01/31/12 10:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You're not going to want it at 100% RH for that long, nor that often :uhoh:


--------------------
Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...

NOTE:  Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone :frown:

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OfflineFunnyLight
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #15745232 - 01/31/12 11:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You guys are really flooding the shit out of those things! ... ?

I've got a well insulated martha, the exact type in your pic JWalt. I've wrapped it in that foil lined bubble wrap shit you can get at home depot/ lowes. I also drape a sleeping bag over the door for easy access and good insulation. Keeps the condensation down, and the RH up.

I run an automated humidity switch. Set my number and let her do it's thang. It might run for 5 hims every 30 mins? The gauge shows -3% +1%. nice consistent humidity.

That provides the majority of my FAE. I have a small fan for circulation inside the martha. A PC style fan. Just enough to see the mist circulate up and around the chamber.

I didn't worry about sealing everything up for the added FAE. So it may be a bit drafty.

I leave a tin foil tray with some water in it by the heat lamp (tied to automated temp switch) that I have at the bottom. Just for a little extra humidity support so I don't  run the ultra dry.

The ultra is one of those lil walgreen's personal units. Nothin crazy there.

Chamber works effin great. Solid results, easy to control.

I would look into a digital timer with some 5 minute resolution if your not ganna get an automated switch. 30 mins of fogger on time seems like  a lot for maintaining humidity.

Also, I mist one time a day, heavily.


--------------------
The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski

Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.

:mushroom2::grin::mushroom2:

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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15745306 - 01/31/12 11:39 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

BP, you are going to want to get a cycle timer. 

You will need to shorten the time that the fogger is on.

I have my repti-fogger on one, at something like 5 mins on then 30 off.

It is weird when you get it right.  You can maintain 95 RH and still
need to mist once in a while.  Zero drenching.  ...and I have drenched
stuff to learn this.

Good luck,

JD


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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Javadog]
    #15745530 - 02/01/12 12:42 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I went through many ultra sonics until I quit replacing them and realized you really dont need one in a martha. Rr suggests many slits and putting a coolmist in the bottom. I got two for ten bucks from youth ranch. Old school ones. The little one hits upper 90rh. The big coolmist is better than any ultra sonic ive had. I run the little one 24/7 and the big one (or ultrasonic if you must) 15 min on/2hrs off. I hit 99rh then drop to 85. Mini fan runs in room always. There are lots of slits.

The way I knew it was right is when I had some trich show up on a cake and it didnt spread. It likes stale air so I knew I needed more slits. Now I havent had a single contam and im in there a lot. Mine goes through water like crazy but I have it in a tub with a submersable pump. It pisses old water once a week.oh, I also regulate heat by wrapping it in a space blanket and putting a fishtank heater set to 79f inside my coolmist. Temp drops some and then the 15 min fog warms up the martha to 78. This cycle gets my pins happy...

if you need pics I'll post when uploads are enabled


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Germinating old spores progress page
how to calibrate your Martha



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Offlineganjfather
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: spiritlands]
    #15745785 - 02/01/12 02:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Trial and error my friend


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OfflineBig Pappa
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: ganjfather]
    #15748983 - 02/01/12 08:10 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, so I adjusted my fogger timer to 15 minutes on, then 2 hr 45 minutes off.  The fan is still running constant.  Its a mechanical timer and 15 minutes is the shortest time I can get.

I guess im going to have to purchase a digital timer, Or fork over some real bucks for a good humidistat.

Do you think if I added a submersible aquarium heater in the bucket that it would raise the RH when the fogger is off and just the fan is running??  Or should I set the fan to cut on and off with the fogger?

The way Im thinking is that if I can achieve ~90% humidity while fresh air exchange is happening, then the fogger kicking on would be just like me misting it with a spray bottle...  only it would all be automatic.  I dont have time to be misting and fanning all day... which is one reason I built this thing.


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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15749111 - 02/01/12 08:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I dont know about the heater boosting rh but I leave the top slightly open on the coolmist (w/heater) to allow convection to move air through my slits. I find the more surface area in the martha the easier it is to achieve and maintain high rh. I leave the fan on to rid stail air. Hope that helps give you some ideas


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how to calibrate your Martha



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OfflineFunnyLight
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15749238 - 02/01/12 08:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Something that we've been kicking around is using the humidity switch in combination with a nice interval timer.

This would provide consistent short term RH levels, with the occasional "flood" to act as a misting.

Haven't done it yet. Sounds good, but things are in progress currently.

Now there is the idea of an automated spray system that I've been kicking about. BUT, this is going to be finicky. I'm sure it's going to be much easier to go way overboard with the waterings.

There's that one guy that had that martha Tek that was built to the 9's. PVC piping running directly over the shelves with a very aggressive humidity and fanning system. I can't the link now, but I'll keep looking.


--------------------
The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski

Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.

:mushroom2::grin::mushroom2:

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InvisibleHorizonSpawn
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: FunnyLight]
    #15749359 - 02/01/12 09:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Funnylight; if it is the one I'm thinking of... He had some design issues with pooling water, iirc :frown:

BTW; warmer air holds more moisture...  That's why the warm air condenses when it comes in contact with the cool walling... Bumping things up a degree or two will facilitate more air-laden moisture while allowing for a comfortable ~90% RH.


--------------------
Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...

NOTE:  Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone :frown:

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Re: Martha setup question [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #15749498 - 02/01/12 09:49 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Horizon,
I wouldn't doubt it! he had what, 3 ultrasonic elements in that 5gal bucket?

I still can't find the link, and I tried damnit! - fail whale -

I got my martha setup and was hesitant this little single element humidifier would keep up. But it does so very well. So I can imagine just how much water he was putting out.

Insulation helps TREMENDOUSLY in my setup. Helps to keep the humidity in the air and off the walls.


--------------------
The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski

Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.

:mushroom2::grin::mushroom2:

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OfflineBig Pappa
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Re: Martha setup question [Re: FunnyLight]
    #15749626 - 02/01/12 10:14 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

THIS is the fogger Im using inside a 5 gallon bucket, using a 4" 120v cabinet fan in the lid.


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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15749892 - 02/01/12 11:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hey BP,

One thing that you might consider is to use an otherwise useless humidifier
to drive the FAE rather than a plain fan.

I am talking about the sponge type of humidifier.

I might never have bought one for this purpose, but I had one set aside
because they suck at providing humidity alone. 

In combination with a fogger they do pretty well.  I pulled mine out of
storage and am using it this way with my outdoor GH.

An upside is that I have found this type of humidifer to last much longer
than either the impellor or the fogger types.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Javadog]
    #15754174 - 02/02/12 11:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

ok, here is what I have done today...

I installed an aquarium heater in the bucket, and cranked it up as high as it will go.  The bucket is VERY warm to the touch, and the thermometer I put on it doesn't go over 85...  and it climbed above that so I get no reading on it... (cheap little thing made for the side of an aquarium.)  The box the heater came in said it will heat up to 96F.  I figure that with the cool air blowing through it it shouldn't overheat my grow area, yet still provide a high RH...

So far so good... the humidity is ~85 to 90ish without the fogger on...

I set the fogger on a digital timer and it fried it.. lol, so I hooked the mechanical one back up.  Its ON for 30 minutes and OFF for 2.5 hours.

Ill update tomorrow after Ive learned more how its working...

I do have a block of Lions Mane in there and a PF jar I found in a drawer from back in September lol.  the PF jar had lots of pins in the jar...  and now it has shrooms growing out and up.  The lions mane seems to be doing well in there too... but only time will tell on that one.

I plan on posting some pics once the server is fixed...  I refuse to use an of site storage for pics of this stuff...  I dont feel comfortable doing that.


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Re: Martha setup question [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15755510 - 02/03/12 11:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Just a thought on the heater...  the heater is rated to keep x amount of water that temp. The heater themselves get much hotter if there isn't sufficient water. Be careful not to over heat, they also crack and electrify. Get or borrow a good therm to get it dialed in or it can cook your shrooms. I cooked one tub and lost some to bacterial bloom until I bought a laser therm (best 40 bucks ever). The heater I use is rated 30-60 gal and it barely feels warm through the walls of my humidifier... Heres how my heater is set up, ive lifted the impeller so you can see. My martha fruit cakes and trays no prob. I hope this saves you some heart ache


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Germinating old spores progress page
how to calibrate your Martha



:spiralflip::spiralflip:



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Re: Martha setup question *NEW UPDATED WITH PICS* [Re: spiritlands]
    #15789547 - 02/10/12 05:57 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, just thought Id FINALLY add some pics.  I got around to taking some this afternoon.

Tell me what you think of this:

First off, Here is the humidifier I made...
It sits on top of the greenhouse. 






Here are some pics of the greenhouse itself....



Here are pics of the inside....





It sits in this tub which is half full of perlite....




And its all located in this closet....




There is a 65k florescent bulb hanging over each shelf...  its almost the entire length of the shelf as well.  Its on a timer 12 on 12 off.  They have been waterproofed....

The fogger is now on a timer... on 15 minutes and off for 30.  Im still trying to adjust the fogger and fan to get it right...  its pretty wet in there....  The Lions Mane seems to like it though!! :smile:


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Re: Martha setup question *NEW UPDATED WITH PICS* [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15791810 - 02/11/12 08:55 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Does the line from the humidifier go straight out of the bucket, then straight down  with a couple of taps for exhaust?

How is your water consumption?

If you have the line exit the bucket, then bend upward slightly before traveling downward it may help with condensation traveling back into the bucket and saving you some water.

Of course that line is so long and only a small portion of the condensation would happen in that first foot.

Looks pretty legit to me though!

When you get tired of fiddling with that timer, get an RH switch. Sooooo easy man! :cool:


--------------------
The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski

Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.

:mushroom2::grin::mushroom2:

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Re: Martha setup question *NEW UPDATED WITH PICS* [Re: FunnyLight]
    #15793841 - 02/11/12 05:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Im not worried about saving water....  I have a ice maker tap ran from the cold water line of the house into the bucket hooked to a fill valve for a toilet.  It keeps the water level right where it needs to be automatically.

Ive been looking for a Humidistat that I can afford that will go up into the 90% range... but cheap ones are hard to find. 

Im also getting ready to add a heating pad (made for helping with fermentation buckets) under the bottom tub with the perlite in it.  Im hoping that this will do 2 things... 1. evaporate the water that is collecting down there... and 2. Help keep the RH high in the chamber.

I have to find a way to raise the humidity without everything getting drenched... and I need to do it soon because I got a couple trays almost ready to fruit...


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Re: Martha setup question *NEW UPDATED WITH PICS* [Re: Big Pappa]
    #15794551 - 02/11/12 08:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Understood,
I'm weary of that water accumulation. Do you have a drain?

I had some drip issues that would kill a 2L in a day, if that. Once fixed 2L of water will last ~2.5 days. It could be significant amount of water.

Here's the humidity switch I'm using. HS-311, it's $60 and It'll do everything you want a humidity switch to do... It turns on and off all great like.

I def recommend a warm water pool. It seems to have helped stabilize my chamber a bit. And in my case I have mine sitting above my heat source. So really it's not directly heated, just in a little bit warmer area.

A heating pad, or aquarium heater should work well (if you have the standing water).

My 2 cents is to insulate the shit out of that thing. Wrap sleeping bags around it. It stops condensation. This helps to keep the moisture in the air. IF your FC is at ambient temp of your room this DOES NOT matter.


--------------------
The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski

Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.

:mushroom2::grin::mushroom2:

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