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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Minnesota...
    #1569720 - 05/22/03 03:27 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

.... becomes the 35th state to pass "must issue" carry permit law.

Seems people are becoming smarter.

Wise people.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1569756 - 05/22/03 03:44 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

just passed the ?conceal-carry? reform legislation I just referred to, legislation that guarantees the right of law-abiding citizens to arm themselves against the ongoing threat of harm from our non-law-abiding citizenry.

The only caveat I was suffering under was the questionable provision that made this liberal guarantee available to 'all the people.'

Is it just me or does it not make sense for "everyone" to be able to carry a weapon to defend against the everpresent non-law-abiding citizens? :confused:



--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Minnesota... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1569778 - 05/22/03 03:52 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Is it just me or does it not make sense for "everyone" to be able to carry a weapon to defend against the everpresent non-law-abiding citizens?




what aboot the crazies and schitzo's? I say give them cap-guns, they'll never know the difference


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1569811 - 05/22/03 04:08 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

If gun access is so loose, who determins which citizens are law abbiding,and if i've never been caught at anything does that make me a worth gun carrier?

It seems almost as stupid to me as giving civilians teh right to own automatic guns... :confused:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1569819 - 05/22/03 04:11 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Innocent until proven guilty.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Skikid16]
    #1569832 - 05/22/03 04:16 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

So when i shoot my wifes lover because i happen to have a gun right beside me, that proves me guilty...but at what cost?  Kids going to school taking parents guns (i know lots have gunsafes) decide to take as many with em as possible...

What a stupid idea.  :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1569960 - 05/22/03 05:21 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

As much as it pains me to say this, I agree with Asmodeauz on this one. Ugh.

But really, you cant just give guns to EVERYONE. People arent smart enough to regulate themselves...I know, you all disagree...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Minnesota... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1569999 - 05/22/03 05:48 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

To the naysayers..... guns aren't GIVEN to ANYONE. There are criminal record checks, mental health checks and in many states some training is required to get the permit.

And Azmo, we can still get automatic weapons in many states. It requires special permits and a bit-o-cash but it can be done.

Guess how many legally owned fully automatic weapons have been used in the commision of crimes. Did you guess none? Any other answer is wrong.

And in most states far less than 1 percent of concealed carry permit holders commit crimes with a gun.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1570228 - 05/22/03 07:27 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Guns don't kill people, drugs do.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Registered: 03/14/03
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1570341 - 05/22/03 08:16 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

drink, but belong to M.A.D.D.





that's my favorite line


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org

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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1570419 - 05/22/03 08:51 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So when i shoot my wifes lover because i happen to have a gun right beside me, that proves me guilty...but at what cost?


So if you didn't have a gun and instead blugeoned your wifes lover with a salami, should you ban salami?

Quote:

What a stupid idea.


What is, innocent until proven guilty? So who should be guilty?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Posts: 21,287
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1570594 - 05/22/03 09:54 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

To the naysayers..... guns aren't GIVEN to ANYONE. There are criminal record checks, mental health checks and in many states some training is required to get the permit.




This would be perfectly fine with me. Really, I'm one of the most ardent people you'll find for your right to have guns. But it seems to me that so many of the people who are more vocal bitch and whine about these things.

There was a thread here a few weeks ago where people said that ANY kind of gun regulation is wrong. Thats silly, right?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Minnesota... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1570798 - 05/22/03 11:08 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

There was a thread here a few weeks ago where people said that ANY kind of gun regulation is wrong. Thats silly, right?



What's silly is giving the exclusive power to own certain weapons only to those who seek power over their fellow men (politicians and their minions who enforce their edicts), but to prevent those who do not seek power over their fellow man from owning weapons. Compare the murder rates of government agents with the private citizens... Oh that's right, when governments kill people it's not murder, it's law enforcement, collateral damage, pre-emptive strikes, casualties of war, unfortunate misjudgments or some other euphemism.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Evolving]
    #1571739 - 05/23/03 09:03 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Nonono. C'mon Evolving, I think you know thats not what I meant.

By ANY gun regulation, I mean this. Anyone under the age of 18 has no business with a gun. Sure, they can shoot, I know I did with my dad. But they dont need to have a pistol under their bed.

The certifiably mentally ill do not need to have guns. Right?

Should people who have committed numerous crimes, i.e. murder, armed robbery, or any other violent crime WITH a gun be allowed to have a gun?

This is what I mean by sensible firearms regulation. I'm not saying that a healthy, appropriately aged man or woman shouldnt be allowed to have any gun they want. Thats FINE. But some limits are desirable.

I dont see how you can say that letting 14-year old mentally ill convicted felons have concealed automatic weapons is a good idea, nor is it a realistic one. If people who disagree with gun control continue to have such blatantly irresponsible attitudes, they will never be taken seriously by those who push such measures.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Minnesota... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1571903 - 05/23/03 11:09 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

C'mon Evolving, I think you know thats not what I meant.



No, I didn't. Now that you've explained yourself I can say I don't disagree with you.

Quote:

I dont see how you can say that letting 14-year old mentally ill convicted felons have concealed automatic weapons is a good idea...



I didn't say that.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1571971 - 05/23/03 11:37 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

To the naysayers..... guns aren't GIVEN to ANYONE. There are criminal record checks, mental health checks and in many states some training is required to get the permit.

And Azmo, we can still get automatic weapons in many states. It requires special permits and a bit-o-cash but it can be done.

Guess how many legally owned fully automatic weapons have been used in the commision of crimes. Did you guess none? Any other answer is wrong.

And in most states far less than 1 percent of concealed carry permit holders commit crimes with a gun.




Thats all great, but doesn't america have more gun related deaths/crimes/accidents etc... than any other country?(correct me if im wrong.)


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Minnesota... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1571992 - 05/23/03 11:46 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Thats all great, but doesn't america have more gun related deaths/crimes/accidents etc... than any other country?(correct me if im wrong.)



I don't know if this is true or what the actual per capita rates are, but this is not a function of gun ownership. Compare Switzerland with the U.S., the Swiss may have a higher percentage of households with guns but their violent crime rates are lower. Crime rates also vary widely across the U.S. and have a greater correlation with cultures in the different areas than they do with gun ownership.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

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Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Minnesota... [Re: Evolving]
    #1571996 - 05/23/03 11:49 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

And what bout LA down in da ghetto, wit all dem bad ass n'gaz sporting pistols and caps?
Only reason you need a gun is cuz everyone has em, well thats the impression i get anyway...


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1572406 - 05/23/03 02:28 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that even if they made ALL firearms illegal, the kids in the ghetto would still be shooting each other....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Minnesota... [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1572414 - 05/23/03 02:31 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Probably... :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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