Home | Community | Message Board


Lil Shop Of Spores
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,756
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 5 hours, 40 minutes
Animal dreams
    #1570348 - 05/22/03 10:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I wonder what animals dream about.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Learyfan]
    #1570355 - 05/22/03 10:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ya !!!!  It's funny... I've seen cats run and fight in their sleep....

Even make mouth noises as if they were eating !!  LOL  :grin: 


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Learyfan]
    #1570463 - 05/22/03 11:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

have you ever seen the movie Milo and Otis?


--------------------
What?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1570510 - 05/22/03 11:27 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hehe i love the movie milo and otis!

i never see my cat do anying in it's sleep.
but my dog barks, and twitches a lot.
sometimes when she barks, she wakes herself up hehe, it's funny.


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Learyfan]
    #1573066 - 05/23/03 08:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know why, but I bet they dream about sex a lot.

Seriously.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRemy
Bitches Brew
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 5 years, 24 days
Re: Animal dreams [Re: soylent_green]
    #1573444 - 05/23/03 11:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Milos and Otis is the f'uckin hizzy to the shizzy. My childhood would have been much duller without that movie.

My dog goes crazy when hes dreaming. I think he fantisizes about killing mailmen and destroying furniture.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Animal dreams [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #1573529 - 05/24/03 12:33 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)


I don't know why, but I bet they dream about sex a lot.

I've never known a dog to ejaculate in his sleep. But I donno, they might do that.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Learyfan]
    #1573552 - 05/24/03 12:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I wounder too, the other day i woke up, still half-asleep, sitting up i saw the cat in a dreamy 3rd eye manner, craw on the bed. I open my eyes to look and theres no cat. :crazy:

Dreams have just gotten powerful lately!


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Animal dreams [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1574151 - 05/24/03 08:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Awww i guess you're not "the one" then?


lol (just a joke no offence :tongue:)


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibletak_old
Endo Smoke

Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 609
Loc: State of confusion
Re: Animal dreams [Re: cleaner]
    #1574337 - 05/24/03 12:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

=\

Dreams cannot be described. I bet they are cool though, cats always seem to like sleeping.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Animal dreams [Re: cleaner]
    #1574461 - 05/24/03 01:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

No offense taken, "The one" is only character. There truely is no one, only many. :grin:


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Animal dreams [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1574754 - 05/24/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I was reading a transcript of Julian Jaynes talking (The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind). He was saying that animal dreams would be very different from human dreams. He doesn't believe animals are very conscious if at all (consciousness meaning self-awareness). This is why you sometimes see cats interact with themselves in mirrors. They look at the mirror and can't get it through their head that they exist and that they are looking at themselves, because to them they don't exist or whatever.

Anyway, he says that dreams are basically the brain firing away causing familiar movements to happen. So a dog dream isn't like our dreams.. they don't imagine running through the woods and catching the deer, but their feet twitch because they are a familiar neuro pathway (or whatever they're called). Because humans have a rich internal world going on in their mind our dreams aren't just muscle twitches. We have all kinds of things going on in our mindspace. A symptom of consciousness according to him is this mind space which is an analog to the outer space of the world. When we understand something we say "I see." See what? The idea conveyed floating in the landscape of our mind. We express ourselves like "the idea is in the back of my mind." The back is a location in space.. This space is where we are when we dream, and because other creatures don't have this space developed (and according to Julian Jaynes nobody before 800 BC did.. which means we weren't conscious back before then) then they don't have dreams full of imagery. Just muscles twitching..

I guess we can never know for sure, but I thought this was interesting.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibletak_old
Endo Smoke

Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 609
Loc: State of confusion
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Dogomush]
    #1574859 - 05/24/03 06:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Why do cats respond when you call them. I dunno but alot of things seem to point to animals having self awareness. I cant really think of any real diffrences in lifestyles. Maybe im wrong, but cats and dogs seem like little people who cant dont need to speak in words.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSole_Worthy
Stranger

Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 463
Loc: over here
Last seen: 9 years, 21 days
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Dogomush]
    #1574878 - 05/24/03 06:52 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

and according to Julian Jaynes nobody before 800 BC did.. which means we weren't conscious back before then




hmmmm


--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1574929 - 05/24/03 07:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Why do cats respond when you call them.

Self-awareness isn't required to respond to your name. When you call your dog it sets off a trigger that makes them come. I'm not decided on whether or not all animals are unconscious. Some good arguments I read in The Origins of Humankind by Richard Leaky is that consciousness has evolved because in a social animal's life, it's very important to be able to lie and cheat. Consciousness helps this a lot. When you lie you might twiddle your fingers, play with something, be unable to keep eye contact, and these are giveaways, but if you are self aware then you know how you behave in these situations and you can alter how you project yourself and also you are better at sniffing out lies in other people. When the guy tells you something but can't keep eye contact you think "Hey I do that when I lie to people" and then you know he's lying. It's a way around having to learn every nuance in body language piece by piece through experience.

Some scientists did this thing with chimps: They put a box with a remote trigger to open out in a field close to some chimps. The box was full of bananas. Chimp A walks by, and the box opens revealing its treasure. The chimp checks it out and then when chimp B came into the field, chimp A closed the box and sauntered away as if nothing of interest was going on. Chimp B acted like "I didn't see nothing" but stuck around pretending to be interested in other things. When Chimp A left thinking the treasure was safe and intending to return later chimp B went and hooked up the bananas. This could be a sign of consciousness in chimps because so much trickery would be difficult to do without self-awareness. Maybe.

hmmmm

Yeah it's a funky theory. I haven't read his book (not enough pictures) but I've read some essays. Basically he looks through old parts of the bible, sumerian writings, and stuff by homer.. iliad and the oddysey. What he finds in these old bits of writing is that humans don't navigate the mindspace. They don't use terms like "I see" when communicating ideas.

One thing he brings up is that the first kings of mesopotamia weren't human.. they were wooden heads. Also, it's very common in these unconscious, or bicameral, cultures is people have tons of Gods. Everybody has a God, every town has a God, and so on and so on. People have idols in their own homes which they worship and communicate with, somethnig we don't have (don't confuse religious idols with religious icons). The bicameral, pre-conscious people have these kinds of imaginary friends.. these voices in their heads which tell the automaton that is the bicameral person what to do in times of stress. The first kings of mesopotamia were wooden heads because people could hear the voice of these idols in their heads and they would delegate out the work.

Eventually the idols are phased out by consciousness. We have our own voices in our heads. The reason bicameral cultures haven't continued is because eventually the society becomes too complex and there are too many voices saying too many things and everybody does different stuff and eventually everything falls apart. When a conscious culture falls apart then they can revert back to being bicameral. Babies are born undecided.. they can go either way depending on the way people are around them. Lots of kids have imaginary friends... these are what would eventually become idols and voices in their heads telling them what to do, but through cultural conditioning the kids lose these imaginary friends. Schizophrenia is also a throwback to the bicameral mind. People can't cope with the voices because they don't go with the rest of society.

I guess a kind of natural selection occurs where on a long enough timeline the conscious culture emerges, and then it spreads like wildfire. The bicameral cultures can only grow so large before they become too big and fall apart. The mayans had this problem.. they kept building up and falling apart because they never made the leap from bicameralness. Because there is this population limit the conscious cultures will always be more unified at large sizes which means more power which means they topple bicameral people like dominoes, and any bicameral child raised in a conscious culture will become conscious.

Interesting stuff, but I don't know if I believe it. I haven't read his book, though, so who knows. I'm waiting for the comic book version.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,756
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 5 hours, 40 minutes
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Dogomush]
    #1575646 - 05/25/03 02:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Very interesting.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Animal dreams [Re: Learyfan]
    #1576429 - 05/25/03 04:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

The Adventures of Milo and Otis is my favorite movie of all time.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* animals and dreaming start25 624 5 10/31/03 12:14 AM
by questioning
* The Aesthetics of Dreams HoldEarthHostage 673 19 02/15/09 04:54 PM
by Nexion
* Dreams demiu5 864 13 08/17/06 08:45 PM
by leery11
* Humans and animals BombDiggity 1,210 16 03/23/06 01:37 AM
by Rahz
* why humans are not animals
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
EternalCowabunga 5,610 113 12/05/07 12:34 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Animal Empathy? RebelSteve33 644 2 02/12/03 11:37 AM
by adrug
* I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special.
( 1 2 3 4 ... 20 21 all )
Icelander 9,573 412 11/03/09 04:28 PM
by Psilonescens
* The dream of the planet. (Gaia) Gomp 427 1 06/19/05 12:14 AM
by ShroomDoom

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
761 topic views. 1 members, 6 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
The Spore Depot
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.074 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.