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OfflineConstantlyLearning
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Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold.
    #15688161 - 01/19/12 12:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Dear Shroomery,

Hello, first I would just like to say, thank you to everyone who has worked so hard building this site and posting and creating such an elaborate, informative body of knowledge.  Already, I am indebted to all who have participated in this putting together this collected wisdom.

So, my plight:  After reading several versions of the PF Tek and watching RR's sequence of 4 videos on youtube, I decided to try my hand at cultivation.  I moved into a new place, which I considered to be extremely clean.  A newly finished basement apartment with plenty of space.  I took a crawl space the size of what would be under a stair case, stapled thick sheeted plastic all over the walls and placed an air purifier inside, as an attempt to make some sort of clean room.

I have been thorough in cleaning everything with windex, mold and mildew cleaner, and bleach solution for the floors.  Two months ago I inoculated for the first time, and had tremendous results.  My first 80 something jars all colonized successfully.  Not one was lost to mold.  From these jars, 24 were made into a double stack pf tek tub, 12 were made into a single stack tub, 20 were made into a bulk "How To Do Coir" tub, and the rest were used to create new jars by taking pressure cooked jars and putting a teaspoon sized scoop of a mycelium cake into a new brown rice flour/verm jar.

All of these jars (68 in total) have been free of contamination thus far and will be done colonizing in about 3 days.  Success.

Now, for the more challenging (and horrible) part.  Inside the clean room were these three tubs I made.  I was having humidity issues.  Hygrometers read only 60-70%, and everything I read said I needed 95%, so I went to PetCo and bought a "ReptiFogger" humidifier.  This unit has a 1L water botter inverted that somehow releases water, heats it to foggy steam, and releases it out a long plastic 1 inch diameter tube.  Cool, so I drilled a 1 inch hole in the top of each of the three tubs so I could switch the hose back and forth between the three while monitoring the humidity.  All was well.  Double stack tub had a great 107.8g (dry) first flush.  I was ecstatic.  The single stack tub seemed to still not get humid enough, and produced very short, fat stemmed, cracking capped crappy fruits that maybe totaled only 15g dry.  Rather disappointing, but I figured it was just a humidity issue and decided to wait a little longer on it hoping for better results in a further flush.

Then, I got humidity greedy.  Though I had 80% in my Coir tub, I inserted the reptifogger tube and left the house.  I came back 8 hours later (mistake) to find that the entire white cake was covered in water.  I soaked all the water up in paper towels and left it in the clean room hoping it would still work out (another mistake).  Two days later, I found my first mold.  Green - trichodermia or something like that.  BIG bummer.  The tub was immediately disposed of.

The next day, I checked my single stack tub.  Along the circumference of the top of each cake was green mold.  Bigger bummer.  Tub disposed.

Panicking now, I took my only good tub (double stack) and brought it out of the clean room into my bedroom.  I put the tub next to my bed on the opposite side of the clean room (now not so clean), and draped sheeted plastic over the tub so that it would be safe from airborne contaminants.  (This is now prepped for second flush, btw)

Here comes the kicker:  My buddy and I decided that since we were going to be ready for new transplants in a few days, we would pre-make our brown rice flour/verm jars to save time.  We made 120 of them, put them in a storage tubs with lids on them, and put them in a closet in the bathroom.  (This closet always had an odd smell to it, but I stupidly ignored it.)  I checked on the tubs 2 days later and EVERY JAR HAD LITTLE BITS OF COBWEB MOLD IN THEM.  I was devastated. 

I garbage bagged each storage tub and put them in the trunk of my car out in the freezing cold all night.  This is last night.  This morning I checked on my only tub left, my baby, and found at the base of each cake some gray cobweb type mold that I never saw in there before.  I also found a single abort, with mold growing from it in all directions (small) buried under a little bit of perlite.  1 out of every 100 perlite rocks now appear pink (another kind of mold?).  I am furious, upset, anxious, and baffled, all at once.

I am going to dispose of this tub as soon as I am done writing this post.  Last night, I sprayed an entire can of lysol disinfectant through my house.  Emptied the whole thing as an attempt to clean the place.  I mopped all the floors, cleaned all the surfaces with mold and mildew cleaner.  But now that i found this cobweb mold this morning, i don't know what to do.  In the clean room, i wiped the plastic walls down with clorox disinfectant wipes and sprayed lysol everywhere.  The air purifier is now in there with the almost fully colonized jars.  They are my only source of salvaging this project.

My Question To You, Shroomery:  Is there anyway I can save this space?!  Can I disinfect this apartment?  Is the cobweb mold in my premade jars because of a dirty environment (the closet) or is it because you're just not supposed to premake jars?  How the fuck did the cobweb stuff get into my double stack jar?  Is it coincidence or related to the jars in the bathroom?  Can I use that clean room again after the green mold showed up?

HELP!  :frown: 

I apologize for the huge post, but I promise to contribute on a regular basis for the rest of my time involved with cultivation if you can help me with my situation.  I am currently a science student at a pretty prestigious research university and have a few things to offer, especially after I get more accustomed to the practices around here.  I would greatly appreciate all and any help. 

Thanks,

ConstantlyLearning

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OfflineMr Dobalina
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Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 39
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: ConstantlyLearning]
    #15688339 - 01/19/12 01:29 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

did you boil the jars to sterilize the substrate?


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OfflineConstantlyLearning
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Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: Mr Dobalina]
    #15688426 - 01/19/12 01:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

No, like an idiot, I said to myself, "Well, why don't I just store them for now and sterilize them right before I introduce mycelium to the jars.  That way I won't have to do it twice!"

That did not work out well at all, obviously. :frown:


Right now I am pressure cooking all of the contaminated jars to kill whats inside, then I plan to soak them in a 1:10 bleach to water solution in storage tubs in my bathroom over night.  Then in the morning, I will be putting them in a dishwasher, and then after that I plan to wipe them down with isopropyl alc solution.

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OfflineConstantlyLearning
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Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: ConstantlyLearning]
    #15688510 - 01/19/12 02:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Any ideas as to if this apartment is salvageable?  Do i need to just deem the entire place unfit for mushroom cultivation?  Pretty devastated right now..

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OfflineCMOS
Whats next?


Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 833
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: ConstantlyLearning]
    #15688793 - 01/19/12 03:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think your problem is premixing your PF jars and waiting to sterilize as well as using that fogger for humidity.  I don't know what kind of tubs your using, but you should not need to use a fogger with them. 

Definitively don't let your sterilized jars sit around, scrap the fogger, and give your work area a good clean (which it sounds like you did)

If it were me, I would start over and try to just do normal PF TEKs in a shotgun fruiting chamber or spawn some of them to coir and do a normal mono-tub. 

Make sure your doing all your sterile work in a glovebox and having a dirty apartment shouldn't matter.


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Edited by CMOS (01/19/12 03:31 PM)

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Offlinekeeno
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Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 2,679
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Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: CMOS]
    #15689025 - 01/19/12 04:24 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

man that sucks, sorry to hear that.

IDK, I'm still a noob but reading through your account, I was wondering if the area gets much fresh air at all?

from what I can tell, contaminated cakes etc are ok if you chuck them out due to the massive amounts of fresh air.
Also, you're obviously up for investing time/ cash... perhaps get some jars with synthetic filter discs/ silicone injection ports, and do a load of rye grain which you can spawn in a monotub?

this is a good lid tek
TranscendingLife's lid tek

and here's the classic Damion 5050 monotub tek

5050 joy

hope that helps and/ or creates more discussion for you where more experienced folks get involved :cookiemonster:


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Check out my Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa (Allenii) TEK


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OfflineConstantlyLearning
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: CMOS]
    #15689312 - 01/19/12 05:43 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you for your input, much appreciated.

The only deviation that was taken from the original PF Tek with the two tubs containing full cakes was that holes were not drilled on the bottom of the tub, or the parts of the walls where there was perlite.  Somehow the humidity would only reach 60-65% MAYBE 70% without the humidifier.  The cakes wouldn't fruit that way.  Is it possible that deviation was the source of my low humidity?

As for the pre-mixing of the jars.  Yeah, that was just simply a mistake.  I would like to know though, the mold that formed inside those jars is due to the moisture already INSIDE the jar, and the contaminants that were in either the vermiculite or the brown rice flour, right?  Could sealed shut jars inside a closed plastic storage tub (A solid colored 18 gallon tub from wal mart) be infected by the outside environment of the closet?  I would think not, but I could be wrong...confused on that one.

I will definitely be starting a new mono-tub next week with my new jars.  I'll keep posting to let you know how that goes (as it will be further insight into the source of the original problem).

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OfflineConstantlyLearning
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: keeno]
    #15689340 - 01/19/12 05:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The area (crawl space beneath stairs about 6-7 18 gallon tubs in volume), receives fresh air only when the door is opened, which is about 3 times a day while i go inside to do some work.  Generally, I'll leave the door open while I'm working as it can get kind of tight in there without it open. 

Keeno,

I don't know what you mean by the contaminated cakes being ok as long as there is fresh air.  I am under the impression that contaminated cakes should be removed from the growing environment completely and immediately as they can spread infections to other cakes.

Investing money: This is ok, within reason.  Would I invest in something like a humidifier that can be reused over and over with a digital humidity meter (hygrometer) that turned the device on and off to maintain a specific humidity.  Yep.

Synthetic filter disks...seems like a littler much?  Especially if I need to buy new jars. 

Being smart with where money goes is important, considering there isn't all too much available lol.  The mono-tub is definitely a good idea though.

Thanks for the links on the Tek's too.

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Offlinekeeno
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Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 2,679
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Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: ConstantlyLearning]
    #15689517 - 01/19/12 06:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ConstantlyLearning said:
The only deviation that was taken from the original PF Tek with the two tubs containing full cakes was that holes were not drilled on the bottom of the tub, or the parts of the walls where there was perlite.  Somehow the humidity would only reach 60-65% MAYBE 70% without the humidifier.  The cakes wouldn't fruit that way.  Is it possible that deviation was the source of my low humidity?






was it a shot gun terrarium? you definitely need the holes in the bottom



and apologies for not being clear about the fresh air... I just mean that when the cakes go bad, you throw them outside, and (I think) the extra fresh air allows them to overcome the contam? I might be wrong though, I was just trying to illustrate how important fresh air is, but I probably did it the wrong way :smile:
sick cakes deffo need to go outside though, you're right.

hope the teks are useful, and sorry I couldn't be of much more help there:shrug:


--------------------
Check out my Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa (Allenii) TEK


Top fungi-knowlodgy with THE TRIBE!
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OfflineSexySmurff
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Registered: 06/21/04
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Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: ConstantlyLearning]
    #15689531 - 01/19/12 06:28 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i don't understand how you wouldn't think that moist rice sitting there for days wouldn't spoil in some manner?


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Exalted is He from what they utter. Exalted is He from what they imagine. Exalted is He that exists without a place. Exalted is He that was there forever without a time or a beginning. Exalted is He that will be there forever without a time or an end. Exalted is He that will forever be praised. That is your God.

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OfflineConstantlyLearning
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Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 11 years, 24 days
Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: SexySmurff]
    #15689560 - 01/19/12 06:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You're right, it was a foolish mistake.  Believe me, I've been given my sentence for my ignorance.  I've been pressure cooking contaminated jars, soaking them in bleach, dish washing them, and cleaning the house since I woke up this morning.

I messed up.

Edited by ConstantlyLearning (01/19/12 06:36 PM)

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Help! Had some early success, now plagued by mold. [Re: ConstantlyLearning]
    #15689859 - 01/19/12 07:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Panicking now, I took my only good tub (double stack) and brought it out of the clean room into my bedroom.  I put the tub next to my bed on the opposite side of the clean room (now not so clean), and draped sheeted plastic over the tub so that it would be safe from airborne contaminants.  (This is now prepped for second flush, btw)



By doing this you actually increased your chances of contamination. There will always be contaminants on your substrate when you're fruiting it. One of the things that helps keep those contaminants from germinating and taking over is fresh air.

Quote:

The next day, I checked my single stack tub.  Along the circumference of the top of each cake was green mold.  Bigger bummer.  Tub disposed.



Most likely you birthed them before they were completely colonized or it was bruising and not mold.

Quote:

I garbage bagged each storage tub and put them in the trunk of my car out in the freezing cold all night.  This is last night.  This morning I checked on my only tub left, my baby, and found at the base of each cake some gray cobweb type mold that I never saw in there before.  I also found a single abort, with mold growing from it in all directions (small) buried under a little bit of perlite.  1 out of every 100 perlite rocks now appear pink (another kind of mold?).  I am furious, upset, anxious, and baffled, all at once.




If this really was cobweb mold it is another indication that you need way more fresh air change. Also, mycelium can sometimes resemble cobweb mold. I've seen a lot of new cultivators mistake mycelium for cobweb.


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