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the man
still masked


Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 6,681
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 2 days, 3 hours
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: PDU]
#1571297 - 05/23/03 01:54 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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im not sure exact doses but i person i know ate half oz and he said he was complitly out of this world and felt his body almost stop. couldnt walk or talk or anything just lay there. another person i know nto i very swift cat ate about a oz. he was wounderign around the city goign to hsi friends houses askign for the remedy he also asked his father for it. haha quite strange. EDIT: mj please pm me. thanks
-------------------- And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"
Edited by the man (05/23/03 01:56 AM)
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1571527 - 05/23/03 04:07 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Try taking 250mcg. and two weeks later eat two sheets(20,000mcg) and tell me there's no difference.
That's not the same thing. The key is if you think you're getting 250ug you don't notice any difference if it's 2000ug.
If this saturation theory were true , a person recieving a enormous dose would be saturated therefore they would'nt be thinking they were getting a "average hit".
No, if saturation point is at 250-500ug then it doesn't matter if you get 3000, you'll still think it's 250ug.
Why would Leary lie about people being unable to distuingish between 250 and 2000ug?
In your statement you said Leary said people getting a enormous dose thought it was average. Can't you see the error in this statement. Lets assume that an Average dose is one that is not fully "saturated". An enormous dose would completely saturate you. So how could you get completely saturated off a dose that doesn't completely saturate your receptors? Thats what your saying when you say an average dose is no different than a enormous dose.
As for Leary lying. Leary isn't a lier. He was a very beautiful ,well intentioned man in a pivatol place in history. He made many mistakes, but so would any person put in his shoes. His research may not have been able to tell the difference between 250mcg and 2000. I don't think he intentionaly lied ever about anything.
Ask anyone who has ever taken a huge dose of LSD(10,000+mcg.) if it's different than 250mcg. I assure you that they can tell the difference. A huge fuckin difference. As Whiterasta said in the thumbprint thread at huge doses LSD starts acting on other neurotransmitter receptor systems other than the normal ones it effects. I know alot of people from tour who have eaten massive doses of LSD and every one of them felt it was more powerful than 500mcg. By far more powerful.
Since going off info from folks off the net is skeptical I propose a test. A blind non-placebo test. Take two bottles of water. Have a trusted friend put 250mcg. of liquid LSD in one bottle. Have him put 20,000mcg. in the other. Have him mark them so he knows what they contain, but not tell you. Take them home and drink one then two weeks later drink the other. At both times have your friend be there as a sitter(your going to need it for the 20,000mcg.) I would bet my wife,house, and kids that you will definatly know which one contained the 20,000mcg. In fact you would know it very quickly. peace chinacat72
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: Xlea321]
#1571541 - 05/23/03 04:20 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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whiterasta
Day careobserver

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1571642 - 05/23/03 07:07 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Son, at high doses of psilocybin one easily can piss ones pants, a physical effect that does not occur at low doses as the dose goes up then one may easily shit ones self.Tactile and kinaesthetic resposes become ovewhelmed by synaethesia and normal urges are combined into other feelings and one quite often can awaken in a pile of ones own fluids from ounce dosages of quality mushrooms.And I can say this from experience;)Psilocybin and psilocin may be almost harmless but the mushroom itself will spank you for abusing it.IMO at excesssive dosages it's other protiens and components become influential to the experience(if you eat an ounce of anything your tummy is no longer empty)and I believe there to be undigestable protiens in the fruit body whose gastric distress while on fully involved dosages can also lead to diarreah which if happens during the peak of the experience will bathe you in your own feces.The fact that this during the experience is not as horrible as it sounds should indicate there is a large difference in dosage response WR
-------------------- To old for this place
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: chinacat72]
#1571776 - 05/23/03 09:42 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ask anyone who has ever taken a huge dose of LSD(10,000+mcg.) if it's different than 250mcg. I assure you that they can tell the difference. A huge fuckin difference.
I don't know anyone who'se ever done any research like the stuff Leary did. I've no doubt if you tell someone you are going to give them a massive dose they will have a massive trip. All we know is when Leary was giving very experienced LSD trippers blind doses none of them had a clue as to the size of the dose beyond a certain point.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: ]
#1571793 - 05/23/03 09:50 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you ate 15g dry and werent out of your mind you ate some shitty ass mushrooms for real.
Nope. The best. High doses of cubensis and 3-400 Cyans at a time. I was told very early that "psychedelics arn't like beer" as regards dosage so I was never in awe of high doses. But you have to learn that by varying your dose with an open mind. It's no use sitting there thinking "I just took 8 grams dude the rooms gonna like melt".
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: whiterasta]
#1571795 - 05/23/03 09:52 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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whose gastric distress while on fully involved dosages can also lead to diarreah which if happens during the peak of the experience will bathe you in your own feces
Welp, I've never shit myself yet rasta. And i've taken some pretty hefty doses
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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st0nedphucker
Rogue State

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1571840 - 05/23/03 10:22 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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3 of my friends have pissed themselves and on occasion eachother at doses around 8g, however out of the people who took this dose that is a small percentage. For the people who did lose control of their bladder this was their first experience and theres no way i would recommend anyone to take such a amount for their first trip. But I don't know any experienced trippers who crap or piss themselves at these doses, and to be honest I dont really wanna know them....
-------------------- The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1571997 - 05/23/03 11:49 AM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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If your confident in your belief of saturation effect please do the experiment I listed above. Then get back to us.
Leary may not have been able to tell the difference between 500mcg. and 2000mcg. but he should have tried 500mcg. and 20,000mcg. He would have had a much different outlook as far as saturation.
Hey Whiterasta- can you tell the difference between 500mcg. and a thumbprint. I know I sure as hell can.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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JazzMatazz
addict

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Well... thanks for your lively, and controversial discussion! I will dry the shrooms, and wait till my own house is empty for a day, and then go for 6gr. As for the flaming: Feel free to discuss, but try and keep it polite, k? thx, Jazz
-------------------- Perception is limited to consciousness.Expand it and unfold other realities.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: chinacat72]
#1572129 - 05/23/03 12:46 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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If your confident in your belief of saturation effect please do the experiment I listed above. Then get back to us.
Unfortunately I don't have any LSD handy. I do believe the brain has a limited number of receptors for the LSD to bond with and that the brain adapts to psychedelic experiences, which is why your first trips are usually the most remarkable.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika


Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1572152 - 05/23/03 01:00 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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I believe that that brain changes its chemistry slightly to, rather than adapt to psychedelics, accomadate them, but thats hear nor there. Many people have reported very much the opposite of what your debating (saturation) while you are citing a single faulted reference who may have had faults in his testings and most certainly his conclusions at times. No one should doubt the power of the placebo, but you seem to come off as doubting the power of psychedelic mushrooms.
-------------------- GO OUTSIDE.
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whiterasta
Day careobserver

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1572183 - 05/23/03 01:11 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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YEAH CHINA FOR SURE!!!! 500 was a pedestrian dose. In my day we floated around 1000 -1500 for surfing and school( Alex here is where tolerance DOES manifest) and did multiples of that for beyond effects.As I said in large amounts the dopaminergenic and noradrenaline systems are activated. As for Shrooms in high doses they WILL CAUSE LOSS OF BLADDER/BOWEL CONTROL, just like a dose of acid we used to call a "drooler".It varied in amount from person to person but most folks have a dosage in which they will become unaware of their bodies and drooling pissing and shitting happen.This is one of the main reasons for fasting folks, so you don't dump on yourself while trying to puke.If you have experienced a sweatlodge cerimony this would be more clear.Or if you had experienced a Megadose of LSD. More succicntly if you still are aware of the need to shit your ego is intact and you ain't there yet.
Disclaimer; WR does not now or ever has endorsed pissing and shitting oneself. If it happens one should not become attached to the experience and clean up as soon as awareness returns Peace,WR
-------------------- To old for this place
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: whiterasta]
#1572207 - 05/23/03 01:19 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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HA HA 
Classic my friend. I'm going to save that post.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: PDU]
#1572231 - 05/23/03 01:32 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Many people have reported very much the opposite of what your debating
No, they've stated that when they know they're taking a big dose they have a big trip. I'm sure that happens. But that's a completly different situation to not knowing what dosage you're taking. As far as I'm aware that's only been examined once - the results were people couldn't distuingish above a dose in the 250-500ug level.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: whiterasta]
#1572277 - 05/23/03 01:46 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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You sure about this theory that shrooms make you shit yourself? You sure you're not confusing it with ayahuasca? How big a dose are you talking? No-one you know has taken anything like 3-400 cyans have they? I never had the slightest inclination to take a dump.
-------------------- Don't worry, B. Caapi
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika


Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1572338 - 05/23/03 02:03 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Talking number of shrooms is apples to oranges, but ill see what WR says.
-------------------- GO OUTSIDE.
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whiterasta
Day careobserver

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1572403 - 05/23/03 02:27 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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That you had no inclination says you retained self sense. Ego loss is just that a loss of self usually including a loss of the sense of a physical body.In the absence of control simple peristalsis will cause evacuation or spontaneous release of bladder control.Hells bells Alex I've seen some one piss themselves on 5 grams(in a fit of laughter) Now don't get me wrong I AM NOT SAYING DO THIS TO SEE FOR YOUR SELF,but I am saying that if you have not experienced a complete loss of self awareness then you have not been to where these things occur. I would add that these type of experiences are traditionaly only induced once as a rite of passage except by the shamen who guide the experiences.And no I am NOT confusing Huasca with simple Psilocybe,Huasca nausea is akin to peyote nausea, although Huasca can cause loss of control also.Peyote is perhaps the only hallucinogenic in which defecation occurs as a side effect of the vomiting process as opposed to a loss of sensory input and control. PS(THIS IS A JOKE!) too many tight white asses in an anal retentive society! FREE THE DOODOO! (oops I think the doodoo is already rising about my knees.) Be cool Alex.I am not dissing your opinions just telling what I've experienced. WR
-------------------- To old for this place
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yeti
Stranger

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 20
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1572419 - 05/23/03 02:32 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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My acid experience pales in comparison to some of you, but I'd like to add that I experienced an ego (and bladder) death on a mere 3 hits (<300 mics?). I would call this a high dose or "level 5" only relative to myself. I think it shows how variable our tolerances can be.
By the way, I think I peed myself as a function OF ego death. I didn't have any intention of ego loss before the trip; it just became apparent at some point that I needed to "die". Once I finally embraced this and let everything go, I relaxed my entire body including my bladder. It was the last thing I remember, as "me".
I was shocked when I "woke up" (from some eternal swirling vortex), evidently a few hours later, with urine-soaked pants. I imagine this might have happened because in the first hour or two of tripping I was drinking a lot of water.
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: What can happen on high dosages? [Re: Xlea321]
#1572452 - 05/23/03 02:45 PM (20 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Many people have reported very much the opposite of what your debating
No, they've stated that when they know they're taking a big dose they have a big trip. I'm sure that happens. But that's a completly different situation to not knowing what dosage you're taking. As far as I'm aware that's only been examined once - the results were people couldn't distuingish above a dose in the 250-500ug level.
Thats crazy. Your giving to much power to placebo. Read the thumbprint thread. I talk about a friend of mine who ate some LSD crystal without any knowlege of it's strength or power. He had eaten 1000mcg. many times before and beleived this would be no different. This trip ended his LSD taking career. He was blasted apart. I have seen this happen with everyone who does a print. We think were ready and it will be no different and then it bitchslaps us into eternity.
Until you try it yourself you'll be sceptical and still base your view on a book by a very wonderful man who wrote alot of things that wern't true(not purposefully). I base my view off of 20 years experiance of LSD use and watching thousands of people's reactions to LSD on 8 years of touring with the Grateful Dead. As I said before, I would bet my house, and kids that you would be floored by the difference between 250mcg. and 20'000mcg.(not 2000mcg.). Until you do this ,it's futile to argue this anymore.
Whiterasta- that book we were talking about is sounding like a better idea every day. When i'm out in Oregon this summer lets toss some idea's around. I know a bunch of family in Eugene thats been printed that would probably be willing to share. Especially if they heard that there were actually people who believed that there's no difference between 250mcg. and a nice chunk of white fluff crystal.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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