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Offlineflanders53
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Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 287
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: ]
    #1565989 - 05/21/03 03:02 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Did you guys read the part where I said they had been drying for a day or so? Hmm...this is weird. These were found in a pasture, where hay had been rotting for a while. There was manure scattered in some places underneath the straw. They came up exactly like the fruits I've seen of Pan Subbs. They had jet black spore prints, hollow stems, exact same gills as Pan subbs. When I picked these last year, everyone here, including MJ I think, agreed they were subbs. Actually Mr Mushrooms, I believe you congratulated me on picking my first psychoactive mushroom.

How many grams does it take to trip from the relatives of Pan Subbs MJ? Maybe these aren't subbs...but all I can say is, my friends and I tripped reeeeaally nicely from them.

I did have another picking spot last year. It was in a horse pasture. I'm about 99% positive the fruits from that spot were subbs. They matched Angryshroom's pictures just about exactly.

At a young age, the mushrooms that we are debating resemble Pan Subbs very very closely, with the ring on the cap. I'm interested in figuring out what these are. When we ingested them, they didn't seem very potent. To trip on dry mushrooms we had to dose quite heavily. The fresh trip was BEAUTIFUL though!! I can't wait to do it again this year. Thanks MJ and Mr. Mushrooms, you input is appreciated and I'd like to hear more!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1566128 - 05/21/03 03:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

AS I mentioned, those are probably Panaeolus olivaceus or a similar Panaeolus. There are 13 species of Panaeolus od which the Pn. subbs are one.

Yes I beleive I remember saying they were subss at the time you originally found them but there were many differences in all of your photos.

I do have some images of dried P. subbs somewhere on my site which again do not even resemble your shroooms.

The main one is the thin stalked stem, An incurved margin on a shroom in the bottom right corner of your picture. The lack of the fibrils on mopst of your stems and the shiny glutinous looking film on the caps of soem of those shrooms inthe image you posted.

Also the caps are all conical with out deformity underneath them. And the conical in their drying in your images do not refelect the many shapes of the specie sin drying stages. They are all too uniformed in their bell shaped -conic shaped image. Again that is a big differenence intheir ID as P. subbs.

They could be in the Panaeous cataneifolius/retrugis/olivaceus complex.

Buit they are not the PN. subbs like int he Angry Shroom photos I posted.

mj

Have a shroomy day


Edited by mjshroomer (05/21/03 03:45 PM)


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Offlineflanders53
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Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 287
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1566301 - 05/21/03 04:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks MJ. I will look around the web, and try to find out what they are. They will be back this year I believe, and we'll try to figure them out, I'll take more detailed pics. I picked mushrooms from a different spot than the ones in the photo, and they looked like Angryshroom's subbs. I think they were subbs, but the mushrooms in the pics in this thread probably aren't.

Can you tell me the approximate wet dosage for a level 4 trip for pan casters, retrugis, and olivaceus? thanks for you're help man.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1566615 - 05/21/03 06:40 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

They are all basically one fresh ounce or more to a level three-to-five trip. or from 3-5 grams dried. If they are properly dried.

I might mention that the other post I relooked at his images and again the stems seem awful tall fo PN. subbs.

It is still an extremely rare shroom although it is common. When I say rare, I am talking unless it is in a compost heap, usually people who find them in manure or in cow fields or lawns, never find more than an ounce or two fresh to beigin with.

I jsut wrote MR. Mushroom a long letter about this confusion. I today saw an unidentified Panaeolus in alawn with a silvery stem and ap shiny like a membrane on it. My fotos were all blurry so I could not post it.

Anyway,Angry Shrooms shrooms are true subbs.
many people ID Panaeolina foenisecii as Pan. Subb and even say theat the sproe print is black, but when i look at their prints they are a dark chocolate brown.

many ID the bluing on shroms by7 saying that they had a purple ring, tyet the color is not in the sense as we know it the color purple.

Some say the spores are blue when they are not, or that the shrooms turn purple. yet it is blue that they turn.
}
Or all the users who smoke shrooms and say they get high.

I have shown pictures of deadly Galerina autumnalis to many people who have told me they ate them before and got real high.
So macroscopic ID, unless someone has a really good camera, is hard at times.

Try to photograph them where they are growing so people can see.

A 35 millimeter camera used can be bought for under 50.00. Ahora closeup lens run about fourty dollars for three sizes. Put them on the front lens and you can get a good image. Not the best but better than ones posted.
have a shroomy day

mj


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Offlineflanders53
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Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 287
Loc: NY
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1566859 - 05/21/03 08:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Hey MJ. I have a digital camera. It shoots at 3.2 or 3.3 megapixels. As a matter of fact, the pic I showed earlier was shot with the same camera. I had to resize the image so that it would fit the upload limit for these forums.

When there is a decent amount of fruits, I will photograph the habitat of these. I am absolutely sure they aren't P. Foen. You talked of blueing in your last post. I did not notice any blueing in the mycelium of these mushrooms, I did however, notice slight tinges of blue in the mycelium of the Subbs I picked from my other spot(the horse pasture) Gumbydude even commented last year that he saw blueing in it. I am absolutely positive that the spore prints were black, especially since there were so many of them to look at. I wonder what these could be. I'd like to identify them as soon as possible. Some more should be coming up with the next rains here in NY. Keep in touch.


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Offlineflanders53
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1566866 - 05/21/03 08:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

PS - MJ, can you direct me to some links that have good descriptions/pictures of the species that could potentially be what I was and am picking? Thanks!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567526 - 05/21/03 11:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The only books on the panaolus are in French and German.

Ola'hs Le Genre Panaeolus and Ewald Gerhardt's Monograph on the genera in German.

Today I photographed another species of Panaeous of which i do not know which one and the camera blurred each image so I did not post them.

Sometimes my ddigital takes nice pictures and other times it doesnt.

Oh Yews, you can post a large 250 mb piture at mycotopia and then copy it to the shroomery. Thats how I post larger images.

mj


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Anonymous

Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567542 - 05/21/03 11:48 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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OfflineQuintessence
I am Hydrogen

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 791
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... *DELETED* [Re: flanders53]
    #1567571 - 05/21/03 11:55 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Quintessence


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Offlineflanders53
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Registered: 06/12/02
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Quintessence]
    #1567575 - 05/21/03 11:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:smile: Thanks alot guys! I will take some prints when they mature more and there are more of them. So far there aren't very many. :frown: I will keep in touch!


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567587 - 05/22/03 12:03 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Those are the exact same Panaeolus that I find mixed in with my pan subb patch, and yes-- they *are* active and do drop jet black spore prints. They very rarely, if ever show bluing, but they are active for sure. I'm guessing that they're Panaeolus oliviaceus... they look very simliar.

Thats the thing I hate about Panaeolus- the genus is simple as hell to identify, but narrowing it down to a species is tough. There are so many species of Panaeolus and there is so little information and pictures. Another that makes it tough is that once the sun hits them... it's damn near impossible to ID them after that color on the cap fades.


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Gumby]
    #1567600 - 05/22/03 12:07 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah Gumby! Thanks for the input man!! Olivaceus eh...hmm. Never would've thought. I'll look them up now. How did you like the trips from them man?? Not too potent eh? Did you eat any fresh?


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567631 - 05/22/03 12:20 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Heh... not potent by any means :\
There were never enough avaliable to try them fresh, always had to stock pile them. A friend( :wink: ) ate around 6 grams dry and had a nice level 3ish experience. 


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Offlineflanders53
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Registered: 06/12/02
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Gumby]
    #1567653 - 05/22/03 12:28 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, same here. We ate them dry a number of times. Kinda nasty. Had a fresh trip though...mmm mm good! Like store bought mushies they tasted. Very visual! I loved it. We split two sandwich baggies three ways. I'd say about 2+ ounces but I dunno...


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