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OfflineJohnnyHogan
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Schizoid personality but I wanna trip.
    #1566803 - 05/21/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Im new here I have a scizoid personality disorder I don't see or hear things that arent real but I think them some times. Do you have any advice to keep me away from a bad trip. :confused: 


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OfflineAVShroomer
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: JohnnyHogan]
    #1566838 - 05/21/03 07:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Im not sure are you saying you dont have Schizophrenia?


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'It's not a war on drugs its a war on personal freedom'
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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: AVShroomer]
    #1566935 - 05/21/03 08:43 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Im not sure are you saying you dont have Schizophrenia? 




Schizoid Personality Disorder is different than Schizophrenia.
It's not near as severe. They have some of the same symptoms ,but not as bad.
The delusions are usually limited to abnormal thought's and social detachment.

What kind of meds or treatment are you reveiving. I would procede very carefully with the use of psychedelics. They can worsen some disorders, esspecially if used carelesslly. Even with a degree in psychology, I can't give you sound advise.
It would be nice if your therapist was knowlegable about psychedelics. Then they could let you know the risk.

Your best bet is to research and find others with SPD that have used psychedelics. See what kind of effect it had on them. See if you can find any info anywere possible.

Psychedelics are very powerful drugs. They show great promise in treating alot of mental disorders. They can also be dangerous for others. Alot of it depends on how they are used. I have never heard of any reports on there effects with SPD.
I'll look around and see if I can find anything.
Be safe and good luck. :smile: 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: chinacat72]
    #1566970 - 05/21/03 08:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I am without a question a schizoid person, and i trip, and i think tripping has been beneficial. Abnormal thinker who is detached from everything...would be a good way to describe me.

Maybe im having illusions of grandeur by thinking tripping has been for the better, or maybe its made a better person. My advice to you would be to ask a drug friendly experience psychologist their opinion, and to read as much as you can about personality disorders and psychedelics in an unbiased place and form your own decision.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: PDU]
    #1566982 - 05/21/03 09:04 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you for sharing. Since conventional psychology and psychedelics have split it's hard to get info on matters like these. Hopefully one day the two will merge again. Until then experiance is our only guide. Again thank you for sharing yours.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: JohnnyHogan]
    #1567666 - 05/22/03 12:32 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i took one of psych tests and it said I'm a schizoid. I don't have bad trips. They are what u make it. Like do it on a clear mind. Ya know when u wake up and you feel fine... that feeling and you'll be good. Or when u trp and start to veer onto a badtrip then remind yourself that you're just tripping and make the best of it... Or juyst laugh


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1567699 - 05/22/03 12:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I dont think badtrips are really the concern....more furthuring a mental "defiency" or "inadequecy"....perhaps becomming full on schizophrenic because of it..


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Offlinerohitabong
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: PDU]
    #1568252 - 05/22/03 04:36 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i hate to break up the party, but i REALLY would advise against mushroom tripping with your diagnosis. Many people falsely state that a bad trip can give you schizophrenia, but that is obviously untrue. What IS true is that someone with a personality disorder on the continuum of schizophrenia, in your case you are on the weaker side of it thank god, has a much greater chance of becoming schizophrenic. You might not ever become Sz, but intentionally taking a substance that can intensify your disorder and possibly lead to Sz is only fueling the fire....

be cautious!


--------------------
In the Time of Chimpanzees I was a Monkey.


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OfflineShroomyJ
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Registered: 04/13/03
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: rohitabong]
    #1568255 - 05/22/03 04:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I have it too, I think, you mean like someone says "lol what a jerk" and then you think it's about you? (just an example :wink: )
It has weakened since I've used mushrooms, I have used them about 7 times now.


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OfflineShroomyJ
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: ShroomyJ]
    #1568259 - 05/22/03 04:47 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Oh well, I HAD it when I was younger I guess, symptoms (must be 4 or more):

# neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family

# almost always chooses solitary activities

# has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person

# takes pleasure in few, if any, activities

# lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives

# appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others

# shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity

Have none of them now, had 'em all.


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OfflineShroomyJ
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: ShroomyJ]
    #1568264 - 05/22/03 04:50 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

This is what I slightly have, maybe:
Paranoid Personality Disorder
SYMPTOMS

A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that their motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

* suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her
* is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates
* is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
* reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events
* persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights
* perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack
* has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner

not very nice eh... but it has weakened.. I have 3 symptoms so i can't call myself paranoid..


Edited by ShroomyJ (05/22/03 04:52 AM)


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: rohitabong]
    #1568279 - 05/22/03 05:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Im quite wel versed in the area, very aware of the risks youve mentioned. They really arnt as dramatic as you sound with a schizoid personality, ....but i think alot of it comes down to what your intentions are, yes, even in this situation.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: rohitabong]
    #1568378 - 05/22/03 06:54 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

i hate to break up the party, but i REALLY would advise against mushroom tripping with your diagnosis. Many people falsely state that a bad trip can give you schizophrenia, but that is obviously untrue. What IS true is that someone with a personality disorder on the continuum of schizophrenia, in your case you are on the weaker side of it thank god, has a much greater chance of becoming schizophrenic. You might not ever become Sz, but intentionally taking a substance that can intensify your disorder and possibly lead to Sz is only fueling the fire....

be cautious!




Your cautiousness is well warrented. This person really needs to think this through.
That said, this disorder is different than schizophrenia. There is no reason to believe it will progress into schizophrenia. They are to different disorders all together with totally different causes. They are very different at the physiological level. The less severe form of schizophrenia is call schizotypal disorder. It is a different disorder than SPD and biologically and psychologically much more simialr to schizophrenia. There is also eveidence that it schizotypal can progress into schizophrenia with the propper triggers. But were talking about schiziod personality disorder not schizotypal disorder.

The term schiziod confusess people into thinking that it's just another form of schizophrenia. The DSM-IV(manual to diagnose all mentall disorders) put's them into two different classes. SPD is a personality disorder and schizophrenia is a psychotic disorder. The reason they use the term schiziod is the similarities of the social withdrawal and inability to participate in human relationships. This is similar to schizophrenia, but again not near as severe.SPD is closer to Autism than schizophrenia.

I am in no way saying it's ok for this person to do psychedelics. I have a degree in psychology and almost 20 years of psychedelic experiance and I still don't know.
As I said before this person needs to be very cautous and do alot of research.
It could help them or it could make them worse. The experiance of other's is all we have to go on since there isn't any valid research info on it.
Again this person needs to be well informed, and tread lightly if at all.
Start with low dosages in the proper setting if you decide to go ahead.
Then report back to us how it's effected you and your disorder.
Who knows mabye it can help. Mabye it can't. The risk and decision are in your hands.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (05/22/03 06:55 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: chinacat72]
    #1568732 - 05/22/03 11:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Nice post chinacat. Just a reminder that the Diagnostic And Statistical Manual Of Mental Disorders is an ever evolving set of scientistic (bad religion?) descriptions. It can be a helpful tool in the hands of those wise enough to realize it's limits. As a recipe book, it is toxic. Also important to remember the rather looming conflict of interest that exist in the fields of psychology and psychiatry when one factors in the huge amounts of money pumped in by the pharmaceutical industries.

We're all tagged, rightly or wrongly, with some description or another in the DSM volumes I-IV. Funny how they change over time - money, politics and trends/styles... compassion too but way later.

Have you read Lacan? Deep water. He, Freud and others do not as easily forget the mystery and poetry of life.

http://www.lacan.org/

btw, i have known folks who could be described by a term like "schiziod" and when they trip or get stoned, they tend to withdraw, as one who knew them might expect. at that point, the people around them may feel uncomfortable and either leave or make fun.


"But were talking about schiziod personality disorder not schizotypal disorder.

The term schiziod confusess people into thinking that it's just another form of schizophrenia. The DSM-IV(manual to diagnose all mentall disorders) put's them into two different classes. SPD is a personality disorder and schizophrenia is a psychotic disorder. The reason they use the term schiziod is the similarities of the social withdrawal and inability to participate in human relationships. This is similar to schizophrenia, but again not near as severe.SPD is closer to Autism than schizophrenia."


Edited by Anonymous (05/22/03 11:39 AM)


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: ]
    #1568900 - 05/22/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure what your getting at.
As for the DSM IV being a toxic recipe book ,you lose me further. It doesn't even contain treatment options, biological or psychological.
As for what the DSM IV is ,I look at it for what it is. A book put out by the AMA and APA that list the diagnostic criteria for mental disorders.
Is it perfect, no. Even the panel of professionals who spent years developing it admit that. They also were straight enough to list it's faults as the fourth volume was released

On that note, I was using it for reference as to the difference between schiziod and schizotypal disorders and which one can lead to schizophrenia.
It's a very handy manual to have for such things by "those of us wise enough to use it".

As for Lancan, no thanks. I'm definatly not a Freudian.
I would tell you why ,but it would derail this thread even further.

peace :cool:

 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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Anonymous

Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: chinacat72]
    #1569133 - 05/22/03 02:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I do not agree that the DSM is a benign effort by impartial professionals. What I'd like to point out is that there are powerful interests influencing what these professionals think and do and write. A list of faults drawn by the fox doesn't make the henhouse any safer for the birds. As a reference manual, I agree with you. We can start on the same page, pretty much. Like you've used it in this thread. I would rather say that the DSM offers language that helps us talk about people. It's a text so interpretation is an issue along with assessment. But my basic point is that "Disorders", for example, is a highly charged term, let alone "schiziod" or "schizotypal". It's reductive and judgemental. "Life" is far more interesting and poetic. This is what folks who use the DSM as a recipe book forget. By recipe book, I mean that they do not recognize the limits of it's usefulness. The treatment options are implied by the diagnosis.

Connie Fischer has done great work in this area. Her book on assessment is a classic. She's referenced in this article.

http://kspope.com/assess/feedabs1.php

chinacat, I don't know where you are going to school but rest assured that you are being schoolled in a particular way of thinking, a particular approach to psychology, a school of thought. To say that you are "definately not a Freudian" betrays this fact. The baby is a jewel even if the bathwater gets a little cloudy at times.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: ]
    #1569454 - 05/22/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:



chinacat, I don't know where you are going to school but rest assured that you are being schoolled in a particular way of thinking, a particular approach to psychology, a school of thought. To say that you are "definately not a Freudian" betrays this fact. The baby is a jewel even if the bathwater gets a little cloudy at times.




Sure I was schooled in a paticular way. And it was mostly anti-Freudian. As is the graduate school I will attend.
So again "Im definatly not a Freudian". As for the DSM IV you have your perspective and I have mine. They are not the same. I have alot more stock in it than you do. I have my reasons for that. I find your observations of it false.As for there being evil forces behind it trying to sell there treatments, well I find that a cospiracy theory at best. If you have read the DSM IV you'll notice it gives absolutaly no treament recomendations or options for any disorders. Why did they do this. So it wouldn't become a treament catolog suceptable to pharmacuetical or other corruption. I would love to agrue psychology all day with you ,but it has nothing to do with this thread. Perhaps if you want to clarify you can pm me.


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (05/22/03 05:19 PM)


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: ]
    #1569556 - 05/22/03 04:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I like what chinacat had to say describing schizoid as a personality disorder, rather than a psychological one.

"btw, i have known folks who could be described by a term like "schiziod" and when they trip or get stoned, they tend to withdraw, as one who knew them might expect. at that point, the people around them may feel uncomfortable and either leave or make fun. "

Thats how i am when i trip around people, i really hate being around anyone but my ONE good friend, no one else. I often leave into a dark room, go climb tree's, wander in the woods, or just relax and think to myself in a dark lonely lawn. This is just a progression of "me" I avoid the telephone at all costs, i dont message people on instant messenger, i feel like a burden in my friendships, I walk down backalleys to avoid people, I sit in the corner alone at places with lots of people, and i have a great deal communicating through language. Perhaps mushrooms have helped fuel my "anxiety" around people, but this is where it comes down to perspective; Sure, an authority figure, perhaps a doctor, would see a great deal of problems with how i am..."a social devient" I mean, wouldnt someone want to opporate on a functional, capable, NORMAL level? Well no, from my perspective i am rejecting all the mindless people with nothing good to say, and their lifestyles/beliefs which has been forced upon me. I have no willingness to be around people unless they are going to be smart...and thats too much to ask in this day in age.

Illusions of grandeur? You make the call...

(Doctor - Im a horrible person who cant function properly within society
Me - I am beyond society persuing a greater goal)

(by the way, ive never been formally diagnosed, only with anxiety, which i do not treat.)


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: PDU]
    #1569745 - 05/22/03 05:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I always trip alone. Since the end of the Grateful Dead I don't trip around people.
I don't need the distraction. I prefer me and a dark room and some music. It's more productive for me that way.

As for not wanting to be around people, in this world thats understandable.
I prefer to stay with my own kind or be alone. I don't find that abnormal.

On another note. I phoned one of my old professers today. She was my advisor for my undergrad honors thesis. My thesis was a meta-analysis on the safety of LSD in the mental health field. She has never taken LSD ,but after a year of being my advisor and having to read the humongous amount of data I had to pour through she is pretty hip to LSD. Anyway I asked her about the risk involved with someone with schiziod personality disorder dosing. She felt there was nothing Physiological  or psychological about the disorder to believe that it would induce schizophrenia. She said schizotypal disorder would be of much greater risk since it resembles schizophrenia at the biological level. She also stated that this is just her OPINION since without valid research it would be unprofessional to say it's fact.
Again we are in unchartered water here. Until valid research can be done with psychedelics we can't come up with a screening test to see who's at risk.
All we have is our experiances to share. Thanks to those that have shared theirs. :grin: 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (05/22/03 11:27 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Schizoid personality but I wanna trip. [Re: chinacat72]
    #1569850 - 05/22/03 06:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

pdu - we're so vulnerable when we are high like that, it's important to feel safe. Sometimes there is not safety in numbers.

agree to disagree chinacat. btw, lol about your thesis advisor pouring through your material. she sounds like a patient person.  :wink:

i wonder what the ama and the apa and the folks who look after developement of the dsm think about psychedelic research. you'd think they'd recognize the possibilities.

hmmm

JohnnyHogen, have you been diagnosed by a professional or do you just think things that may not be real?


Edited by Anonymous (05/22/03 06:36 PM)


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