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InvisibleOlgualion
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Sectoring or Senescence (pic)
    #1564704 - 05/21/03 01:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Here is a pic of the tamp isolate received back in feb of '02. This is probably 3 or 4 transfers from the original culture (dude should keep better records). Anyway, notice there are three distinct growth types. Also notice the date, and the plate was scanned today (very slow growth).



It is a culture, and I don't think this is senescence (I could be wrong). This culture has continuously changed its appearance. Dude is working with a bunch more tamp isolates, and has found the most amazing variety (I have posted previous pics of these). Has anyone noticed other species that show this chameleon like quality on agar?

You will be amazed when I show the next pics from the new tamp c's. There are areas of a reddish color that are growing the same color stones and on the same plate there are bright white stones forming, it is absolutely amazing.


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Edited by Olgualion (05/23/03 01:11 AM)


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence *DELETED* [Re: Olgualion]
    #1565123 - 05/21/03 08:59 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x



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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: poke smot!]
    #1565237 - 05/21/03 10:48 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Actually the picture above is not from multispore. It is about 3 or 4 transfers from the original culture. AFAIK, sectoring is when a colony of dikaryotic mycelium... uhh.. sectors. It is not a term that would be used to describe multiple colonies of mycelia's characteristics (the same with senescence) until they are isolated. Any variation in multispore colonies is just that - variation. The other tamp plates I have shown have not been isolated yet.

Please correct me if any of my above post is wrong.

btw, dude made another transfer at the same time as the above, and it is uniform in its growth.


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Edited by Olgualion (05/21/03 10:49 AM)


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1566645 - 05/21/03 06:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Here's a possibility:

Suppose the orientation of the agar wedge has an effect on its future growth. Tampanensis is known for zonate growth. If you took your wedge perpindicular to the bands of zonate growth and transferred it to a new plate, the areas of zonation may continue to grow in the same manner. The aparent differentiation may not be aparent until the mycelium ages. So when you first transferred the wedge it may have appeared to be one type of growth, but as it aged and grew out the true nature of its zonation would become more apparent.

Too many mushrooms made me think of that. I am very interested in the apparent holotropic feedback in the mushroom life cycle. It seems to me as if the mushrooms may have complicated feedback mechanisms that allow them to grow w/o a linear pattern of time but more like they are aware of the larger picture and grow according to a complete cycle.

This idea is hard to convey. Ask me questions to elucidate.

Joshua


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Joshua]
    #1567826 - 05/22/03 01:22 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

So are you saying they are growing to feel complete?  This is interesting, and I am open to the possibility, but are people really ready for this? :wink: 


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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1568191 - 05/22/03 03:38 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

We are all growing to feel complete. I see the mushrooms grow in a different way, like they are aware of the end as part of the now.

I think our consciousness too grows like this, but most of us can only see it in hindsite. I think the body of the mushroom is more like our consciousness in this manner.

These are shroomed out thoughts and I could argue the opposite probably better. I feel once we become aware of an idea regarding something that we must explore the idea in order to obtain a more complete view of the something the idea is regarding...even if the current understanding is the opposite of the new awareness.

This all was not linked to your original question regarding the 3 apparent types of growth in your culture. I think that explaination is much more concrete.

Thanks for letting me digress a bit.

Joshua


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Joshua]
    #1568877 - 05/22/03 12:24 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I hope this isn't too far out for this forum:

I sincerely feel that every isolate has its own spirit.  External conditions mold the mycelial matter, just like our bodies and mind are molded by our experiences.  We have a mind, body and spirit.  I think mycelia may have only body and spirit.  I definitely feel an energy coming from some isolates, and try to connect my spirit with the myceliums (mainly through visualization, but also the obvious :wink:).  This understanding has helped me to see many unexplainable things in a new light...

They can be great teachers, if you don't underestimate them and appreciate what they have to offer...

At this point, what do I care if people think I'm crazy.. :wink: 


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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1569057 - 05/22/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Dude...you are craaazee!!

Welcome to the club!

Joshua


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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1569524 - 05/22/03 04:15 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

My tamp culture looks more or less like the right part of the myc in your petri. The zones can be white, yellowish or orangeish and the speed of growth variates a lot - that's the cause of zonations IMO. But I never noticed such dark colors, like on the left sector - be carefull, it could be contamination.

Quote:

At this point, what do I care if people think I'm crazy..



You pick up cow shit, cook it and then wait until it becomes "moldy" and shrooms grow out of it? Wow, you're crazy! :laugh: 


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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: zeronio]
    #1570756 - 05/23/03 12:52 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Josh, It's nice to know that others have thought some of the same ideas as me, and even nicer to know that they aren't afraid to talk about it... :smile:

hey Zeronio,

Yes, I have also noticed that the colors are predominantly white, yellow and orange.  Dude has a plate where the orange is so deep it is almost brown.  There is actually a brown stone coming from this area.  On the same plate there is a section of white growth with mad white stones beginning to form.  There is even a brown/ grey area, that if I didn't know better, I would say was contamination.  The only reason I have ruled out contamination is that the spore prints are from home cultivated shrooms, and I have never seen a similar mold in any of dude's other work.

I really want to show some pics but there is soo much condensation on the plates.  Ahh what the hell here:

This plate is very promising.  It is from a multispore innoc on the date on the plate.  Notice on the very right, against the (barrier) edge or the plate, there is a mushroom beginning to grow from the agar!!!



And THIS is my fave!! :



Notice all of the white stones forming.  Also, see the top-right tip of the wedge that was transferred to this plate.  There is a big orangish stone there.  It has been forming for a while, and was never white: it started off orange like that... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

For the 100th time.  I LOVE THIS SPECIES!!!  And I think it loves me back! :smile:
   


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1570814 - 05/23/03 01:16 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Just a little more info. The top pic with the shroom forming... The plate was never c. shocked, and it has been fully colonized for less than a month. Looks like there may be a real nice fruiter in there amongst all of the other strains!!


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1570894 - 05/23/03 01:35 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The mycelium sectors because of a lot of reasons, but it is a product of different phases of growth the mycelium goes through; tell me if you want more details. There are a lot of factors that promote different types of growth, though, such as nutrient content and pH (sectoring is more frequent around pH 7.5 as opposed to 6.5.)

If it is senescing it should turn almost all tomentose, so I highly doubt that is the case.

To prevent the strain from degrading as quickly you could always just sector out the rhizomorphic parts.

Oh, and to prevent condensation like that from building up (it's annoying because you can't see the mycelium) you can simply incubate the petries upside-down, after germination has taken place. This will not adversely affect its growth.

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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: micro]
    #1571116 - 05/23/03 02:48 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The mycelium sectors because of a lot of reasons, but it is a product of different phases of growth the mycelium goes through; tell me if you want more details.




Definitely. I wasn't even aware that mycelium has different phases of growth.

Maybe dude will do some agar with differnt pH's to see what he gets. Surprisingly the nasty ass philly water dude uses is near neutral. Even stranger is that the mycelium seems to like it...


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1571174 - 05/23/03 03:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

There are 4 different phases(/zones on a petrie:)

productive growth: this is where there is the highest density of mycelium, and it probably serves as a reserve for nutrients for the rest of the mycelium.

extending growth: this is where the mycelium is branching the most, usually near the outer edges where it comes in contact with new media.

fruiting growth: doesn't really apply to cubensis, but obvious what it is.

aged growth: near the middle of the culture, this is where (and when) the mycelium is aging and the cells are lysed by the fungi's own enzymes to give nutrients to the newer, healthier cells. The cell walls and cell contents slowly dissapear.

Sectoring is a product of all of these, strain, media and other enviornmental conditions, etc, etc, but this is why it sectors. Just a LOT of genes that say "if this, then that;" way too many to be able to tell exactly what will happen in a given situation.

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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1574662 - 05/24/03 04:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I agree wholeheartedly with the personality/strain idea and I believe that the relationship between us and our little friends is akin to our human friendships.  To get the most out of it you must give them the proper environment in which to flourish.
  Also those plates are bad ass.  Haven't had a chance to work with Ps. Tamp yet, but sometime this year hopefully.
  peace
ps you're a nut job  :smile: 


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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Alkaloids]
    #1574857 - 05/24/03 06:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ps you're a nut job




Thanks man! :smile:

Let me know if you need a print! :smile:

I agree with what everyone is saying here, and want to thank you for the interesting ideas you are posting. :smile:

Micro, thanks for the descriptions.  Could you direct me to where I could find more info about the types of mycelial growth.  I am trying to visualize it, and interesting impressions are coming. :smile: 


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Re: Sectoring or Senescence [Re: Olgualion]
    #1574877 - 05/24/03 06:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

That was from textbooks on Fungi.  If you want really specific, maybe try a search for mycology on amazon.com; the textbooks I have don't go too much more into detail than that.

Info has changed a lot and unfortunately most libraries only have really dated stuff :frown:

Good luck,

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