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Invisible404
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"Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site"
    #15637813 - 01/09/12 12:12 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9S4OUH80.htm

Quote:

Report: Iran begins uranium enrichment at new site

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
TEHRAN, IRAN

Iran has begun uranium enrichment at a new underground site well protected from possible airstrikes, a leading hardline newspaper reported Sunday in another show of defiance against Western pressure to rein in Tehran's nuclear program.

Another newspaper quoted a senior commander of the powerful Revolutionary Guard force as saying Tehran's leadership has decided to order the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, a strategic oil route, if the country's petroleum exports are blocked. Revolutionary Guard ground forces also staged war games in eastern Iran in an apparent display of resolve against U.S. forces just over the border in Afghanistan.

"The supreme authorities ... have insisted that if enemies block the export of our oil, we won't allow a drop of oil to pass through the Strait of Hormuz. This is the strategy of the Islamic Republic in countering such threats," Revolutionary Guard deputy commander Ali Ashraf Nouri was quoted as saying by the Khorasan daily.

Iranian politicians have issued similar threats in the past, but this is the strongest statement yet by a top commander in the security establishment.

The latest statements are certain to fuel tensions with the U.S. and its allies, which are trying to turn up pressure on Iran with new sanctions to punish it over its disputed nuclear program. The West suspects Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons, but Iran denies this.

The United Nations has already sanctioned Iran for refusing to stop uranium enrichment -- which can produce both nuclear fuel and fissile warhead material. Tehran says its nuclear program is only for energy and medical research, and refuses to halt uranium enrichment.

Kayhan daily, which is close to Iran's ruling clerics, said Tehran has begun injecting uranium gas into sophisticated centrifuges at the Fordo facility near the holy city of Qom.

"Kayhan received reports yesterday that show Iran has begun uranium enrichment at the Fordo facility amid heightened foreign enemy threats," the paper said in a front-page report. Kayhan's manager is a representative of Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has the final word on all important matters of state.

Iran's nuclear chief, Fereidoun Abbasi, said late Saturday that his country will "soon" begin enrichment at Fordo. It was impossible to immediately reconcile the two reports.

Iran has a major uranium enrichment facility in Natanz in central Iran, where nearly 8,000 centrifuges are operating. Tehran began enrichment at Natanz in April 2006.

The Fordo centrifuges, however, are reportedly more efficient. And the site better shielded from aerial attack.

Nouri said Iran's leadership has made a strategic decision to close the Strait of Hormuz, should the country's exports be blocked. One-sixth of the world's oil flows to market through the Strait of Hormuz, at the mouth of the Persian Gulf.

President Barack Obama approved new sanctions against Iran a week ago, targeting the central bank and its ability to sell petroleum abroad. The U.S. has delayed implementing the sanctions for at least six months, worried about sending the price of oil higher at a time when the global economy is already struggling. But the new sanctions nevertheless prompted a series of threats from Iranian officials about closing the Strait of Hormuz.

The newspaper paraphrased Nouri as saying that a 10-day naval war game which ended Tuesday was preparation for such a closure. The Guard, which is Iran's most powerful military force and which has its own naval arm, has planned more sea maneuvers for February.

"The exalted leader (Khamenei) determined a new strategy for the armed forces, by which any threat from enemies will be responded to with threats," Nouri said.

The U.S. and Israel have said that all options remain open, including military action, should Iran continue with its enrichment program.

Tehran says it needs the program to produce fuel for future nuclear reactors and medical radioisotopes needed for cancer patients.

The country has been enriching uranium to less than 5 percent for years, but it began to further enrich part of its uranium stockpile to nearly 20 percent as of February 2010, saying it needs the higher grade material to produce fuel for a Tehran reactor that makes medical radioisotopes needed for cancer patients. Weapons-grade uranium is usually about 90 percent enriched.

Iran says the higher enrichment activities -- to nearly 20 percent -- will be carried out at Fordo. These operations are of particular concern to the West because uranium at 20 percent enrichment can be converted into fissile material for a nuclear warhead much more quickly than that at 3.5 percent.

Built next to a military complex, Fordo was long kept secret and was only acknowledged by Iran after it was identified by Western intelligence agencies in September 2009.

Buried under 300 feet (90 meters) of rock, the facility is a hardened tunnel and is protected by air defense missile batteries and the Revolutionary Guard, Iran's most powerful military force. The site is located about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Qom, the religious nerve center of Iran's ruling system.

"The Fordo facility, like Natanz, has been designed and built underground. The enemy doesn't have the ability to damage it," the semiofficial Mehr news agency quoted nuclear chief Abbasi as saying Sunday.






I'll point it out again, they only have enrichment up to 20%. THEY NEED 90% TO BLOW SHIT UP.




There is no reason for there to be a war with this country. Why the fuck are people making a fuss? How much of what I'm hearing third hand about Iran saying they're going to wipe Israel off the map is true? Why the fuck do we even still have ties with Israel anyway?

EDIT: yes, I realize we are a long ways off from war. but it ain't so far away, with them telling our aircraft carriers to fuck off in the strait of Hormuz and them carrying out naval wargame operations there, but...

Edited by StateOfMind404 (01/09/12 12:31 AM)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: 404]
    #15638093 - 01/09/12 01:27 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

StateOfMind404 said:
There is no reason for there to be a war with this country.




Tell that to Iran. :grin:


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Invisibledtowntoker
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #15638244 - 01/09/12 02:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: 404]
    #15638342 - 01/09/12 03:11 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

> I'll point it out again, they only have enrichment up to 20%. THEY NEED 90% TO BLOW SHIT UP.

Incorrect.  It isn't widely talked about, but you only need 6% enriched to "blow shit up".  It gets much easier to "blow shit up" as the percentage of U235 increases.  Also, the time and effort required to go from 20% to 90% is insignificant compared to the time and effort required to go from yellowcake to 20%.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Seuss]
    #15638681 - 01/09/12 06:08 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Really? That's scary.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Le_Canard]
    #15638805 - 01/09/12 07:05 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

> Really? That's scary.

Yes, really.  The 80% figure is what is needed for the easy to accomplish non-implosion based nuclear fission.  The better a country gets at implosion based nuclear fission, which works with both uranium and plutonium, the less enriched the uranium needs to be.  Realistically, 20% enriched is where the real danger starts.  If you are interested, search on terms "significant quantity" (SQ) and "strategic special nuclear material" (SSNM).  If you want solid numbers, you will have to dig pretty deep... again, this isn't something that is widely talked about.  Security through obscurity for a false sense of comfort.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Le_Canard]
    #15638931 - 01/09/12 07:46 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Really? That's scary.




why? you think they'd actually use it?


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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shins]
    #15638936 - 01/09/12 07:49 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

This is sum sad news.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shins]
    #15638960 - 01/09/12 07:57 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

> Really? That's scary.

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Really? That's scary.




why? you think they'd actually use it?




I think Iran would much rather play the "we might have one" game.  As I have said in the past, I suspect their ultimate goal is nuclear powered naval vessels rather than weapons of mass destruction.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shins]
    #15638972 - 01/09/12 08:02 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Really? That's scary.




why? you think they'd actually use it?




Not directly, maybe, but I'll bet they could "lose" one and have someone like the Taliban "find" it, ifyaknowwhatImean.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Le_Canard]
    #15639059 - 01/09/12 08:44 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That is a pretty irrational fear.

youll do fine.


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Invisible404
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Seuss]
    #15639219 - 01/09/12 09:51 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Seuss, if the real danger starts at 20%, what kind of destruction are we talking about here?




Is it true what they've said in the media that they've been developing atomic nuclear triggers?

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shins]
    #15639238 - 01/09/12 10:00 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
That is a pretty irrational fear.

youll do fine.




I certainly don't think so.

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Invisible404
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Le_Canard]
    #15639255 - 01/09/12 10:07 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well, the media have been saying things like Iran funds global terrorism and blah blah blah. Remember when we halted an assaination attempt on our own soil?

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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Seuss]
    #15639497 - 01/09/12 11:34 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I'll point it out again, they only have enrichment up to 20%. THEY NEED 90% TO BLOW SHIT UP.

Incorrect.  It isn't widely talked about, but you only need 6% enriched to "blow shit up".  It gets much easier to "blow shit up" as the percentage of U235 increases.  Also, the time and effort required to go from 20% to 90% is insignificant compared to the time and effort required to go from yellowcake to 20%.






80% IMO


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
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Invisible404
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15639507 - 01/09/12 11:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dtowntoker said:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/01/09/report-iran-sentences-us-man-to-death-for-alleged-spying/






Yeah, I woke up to that on google news... I'm sure this is going to end really well.

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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shins]
    #15639527 - 01/09/12 11:43 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I'll point it out again, they only have enrichment up to 20%. THEY NEED 90% TO BLOW SHIT UP.

Incorrect.  It isn't widely talked about, but you only need 6% enriched to "blow shit up".  It gets much easier to "blow shit up" as the percentage of U235 increases. 




How do you make something that low work?  The stuff I've been reading talks about even 20% U235 being impracticle, though often the reasoning for these blanket claims isn't disclosed, and so its difficult to evaluate.

I don't know what the practicle limits on compressing increasingly large masses/volumes of metal are, but it sure looks like you need to compress a large amount of stuff to get a critical mass at lower enrichment- even with good reflectors.  Am I missing something?

Either way, obviously the 90% figure is ridiculous.  If I recall correctly, Hiroshima was flattened with a bomb of less enrichment, and you don't need a bomb that powerful to create some serious threats.

Quote:

Figure 4.1.7.1.1. Uranium Critical Masses for Various Enrichments and Reflectors
total kg/U-235 content kg (density = 18.9)
Enrichment      Reflector
(% U-235)  None        Nat. U      Be
                      10 cm      10 cm
93.5      48.0/44.5  18.4/17.2  14.1/13.5
90.0      53.8/48.4  20.8/18.7  15.5/14.0
80.0      68. /54.4  26.5/21.2  19.3/15.4
70.0      86. /60.2  33. /23.1  24.1/16.9
60.0    120  /72.  45. /27.  32. /19.2
50.0    170  /85.  65. /33.  45. /23.
40.0    250 /100  100  /40.  70. /28.
30.0    440 /132  190  /57.  130  /39.
20.0    800 /160  370  /74  245  /49.



http://www.nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq4-1.html#Nfaq4.1.7.1



Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Really? That's scary.




why? you think they'd actually use it?




I don't know, which is what is scary.  When the regime is itself founded on special instructions from god, and other mythical charecters, and the leaders claim to be in some sort of special communion with him and his prophets, its kind of hard to be too confident what they'll do. Maybe god will tell the leaders to blow up something to pave the way for the end times, or maybe Ahmadinejad's friend the Hidden Imam will instruct him to reclaim the holly land.

More to the point, the craziness of the regime and its foundations means the threat of these possibilities, as well as the credibility of any threats, becomes all the more grave.  Then there's always the chance another group of crazies acting on special instruction from god might get their hands on a nice chunk of uranium.  From my limited understanding, the construction of a Hiroshima-type bomb isn't very difficult once you source the enriched uranium.

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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: johnm214]
    #15639541 - 01/09/12 11:47 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Just because they have the uranium doesn't mean they have an effective delivery system.  Especially transcontinential


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shill]
    #15639579 - 01/09/12 11:57 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

who cares as long that they can hit the joos..


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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: orison]
    #15639585 - 01/09/12 11:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Typical


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
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Invisibledtowntoker
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shill]
    #15639660 - 01/09/12 12:14 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shill said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> I'll point it out again, they only have enrichment up to 20%. THEY NEED 90% TO BLOW SHIT UP.

Incorrect.  It isn't widely talked about, but you only need 6% enriched to "blow shit up".  It gets much easier to "blow shit up" as the percentage of U235 increases.  Also, the time and effort required to go from 20% to 90% is insignificant compared to the time and effort required to go from yellowcake to 20%.






80% IMO






Lol, in your opinion?  Such a scientific method,  since you're a nuclear physicist, right?


Quote:

Shill said:
Just because they have the uranium doesn't mean they have an effective delivery system.  Especially transcontinential




In your opinion, once again. Or maybe simply to your very limited knowledge

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InvisibleShill
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15639670 - 01/09/12 12:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You just wanna rip on someone, fail.

The very first uranium bomb, Little Boy dropped on Hiroshima in 1945, used 64 kilograms of 80% enriched uranium.


SO, IN MY OPINION

They wouldn't need to exceed 80%


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Invisibledtowntoker
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shill]
    #15639680 - 01/09/12 12:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shill said:
You just wanna rip on someone, fail.

The very first uranium bomb, Little Boy dropped on Hiroshima in 1945, used 64 kilograms of 80% enriched uranium.


SO, IN MY OPINION

They wouldn't need to exceed 80%





They don't need to get past 20%.  It has nothing to do with opinion.

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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15639687 - 01/09/12 12:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

They wouldn't enrich it to 20%, too costly to enrich past 90%

80% is a good medium


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Invisibledtowntoker
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shill]
    #15639706 - 01/09/12 12:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You must have insider knowledge that intelligence agencies would kill for.


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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15639714 - 01/09/12 12:23 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It's logic


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15639723 - 01/09/12 12:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The author of the original article is called Ali Akbar. :rofl2: I'm more worried about America doing something stupid again under the guise of WMD's.


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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: snoot]
    #15639728 - 01/09/12 12:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
The author of the original article is called Ali Akbar. :rofl2: I'm more worried about America doing something stupid again under the guise of WMD's.





Wouldn't be the first time, and definatley won't be the last.


Plus a nuclear war would reduce the carbon footprints by humans.


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Invisible404
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: snoot]
    #15639945 - 01/09/12 01:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
The author of the original article is called Ali Akbar. :rofl2: I'm more worried about America doing something stupid again under the guise of WMD's.






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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: 404]
    #15640235 - 01/09/12 02:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

> Seuss, if the real danger starts at 20%, what kind of destruction are we talking about here?

That is hard to answer.  The more important thing is such a device would be very difficult to weaponize.  It would be large and heavy.  It is not something you could easily launch on a missile, but you could drop it from a large plane (commercial aircraft with suicide pilot, etc), or drive it somewhere in a truck.  Given the ease of going from 20% to 90%, I have no doubt this is the direction they would go if they were going to build a weapon.  Enriching 20% to 100% is like pulling 1 red candy out of a every 5 that you pick up.  Enriching from yellowcake to 100% is like pulling 1 red candy out of every 140 that you pick up.


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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Seuss]
    #15641123 - 01/09/12 04:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

20% would be a pain in the ass to reach critical mass with.  It's definitely possible, but Iran will want to take it to 80+ to avoid headaches.  Hiroshima was flattened with 80% enrichment and 90% is the figure that the US uses in it's weapons (I believe).

It really depends on what method of separation they're using as to how fast they're proceeding with it.  But like what Seuss said, it's much harder to go from yellowcake to enriched uranium.  I wonder as to the extent/if they have a decent uranium reprocessing set-up. 

Reactor grade uranium only needs to be like 4-6% enriched, if I'm not mistaken...so they're definitely upping their enrichment for something else.


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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
    #15641196 - 01/09/12 05:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Ignorance + parinoia is worse than any a-bomb.


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InvisibleShill
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Registered: 11/23/11
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shins]
    #15641269 - 01/09/12 05:20 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Ignorance + parinoia is worse than any a-bomb.




haha

At least a A-Bomb war would clean carbon footprinting (Yes I know I said taht earlier)


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The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: "Iran begins uranium enrichment at new underground site" [Re: Shill]
    #15641547 - 01/09/12 06:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So would reducing ignorance.

carbon is one of the building blocks of life anyways...

c02 is air for plants.

plants grow bigger and faster with higher c02.


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