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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005?
    #1563253 - 05/20/03 04:47 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

From HERE.

"May 20 ? President Bush made a direct appeal Tuesday to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas to clamp down on terror attacks on Israel while assuring the new leader that the United States remains committed to establishing a Palestinian state by 2005."

I hadn't heard anything about bush wanting a palestinian state by 2005.. Is this new or did I just miss out on it


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1563306 - 05/20/03 05:14 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If this happens, it will be the one thing Bush does that I agree with.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1563335 - 05/20/03 05:26 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I just find it strange that the President of the United States of America, the person who is supposed to be in charge of foreign policy, is talking about our plans for a Palestinian state by 2005, when 2005 is after his term. He is possibly starting something early that somebody else may have to finish.

What a prick.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1563397 - 05/20/03 05:55 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Bush is in essence talking through his hat. The US has some influence on the matter, sure, but the make or break part of the deal is outside of US control. The Israelis and Palestinians can derail the process at any time. It has happened before -- more than once.

I believe it is more a symbolic pronouncement -- a declaration of which direction Bush feels that the process should head in order to please the international community and (not coincidentally) the US. Even though the outcome is really out of the hands of any US administration, the pronouncement shows that for once Bush is conscious of the effect that perceived American attitudes can have on the outcome of deliberations between third parties.

It appears that perhaps finally he is getting some intelligent advice from his advisors.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1563424 - 05/20/03 06:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

This is all part of Bush's plan to take over the world.


Edited by Anonymous (05/20/03 06:12 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Phred]
    #1563429 - 05/20/03 06:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It appears that perhaps finally he is getting some intelligent advice from his advisors.



Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1563555 - 05/20/03 07:05 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Strumpling:
He is possibly starting something early that somebody else may have to finish.

IMO there is no way around doing this with some of the more complicated issues. Maybe it's the flip-side of the wisdom of limited terms--the fact that a succeeding administration can nullify even promising moves might discourage a current administration from thinking long-term, beyond their own stay in office.

hongomon


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: hongomon]
    #1563625 - 05/20/03 07:37 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I guess I misunderstood the situation


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1563730 - 05/20/03 08:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Not necessarily. The situation between Israel and the PLO is fucked up six ways to Sunday. So any proposed solution would need to take the long run into account. However, I really don't know what Bush's overall plan is, and it just may be that it is consistent with other actions he's taken as president--which is to say, stupid. In which case he is a prick just heaping more problems onto future presidencies, like you said.

Why in the hell the Western powers following WWII even set up a state of Israel smack in the middle of the Arab world is something I may never understand. And the indefensible borders was just asking for a war. Look at this:

Israel 1950s

If Israel hadn't had billions of dollars to put toward its defense all these years, I wonder if it could have prevented being cut into two pieces through the middle. I once came across a list of statistics showing military expenditures of the middle east. It was interesting how Israel's budget was close to equal that of its surrounding foes combined. Another crazy arms race.

hongomon


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: hongomon]
    #1563785 - 05/20/03 08:41 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"Why in the hell the Western powers following WWII even set up a state of Israel smack in the middle of the Arab world is something I may never understand."

Its like when you were a little kid and you would just try to hide your mistakes and lies, only to realize later "holy shit what a fucking stupid move.. I can't believe I didn't realize that I'd have to deal with this sooner or later.."

I see what you mean by saying these problems will take longer than one term no matter what, but why does it look like the USA is going to be more involved in this than any other "members" of the UN. on top of that, why weren't we kicked out of the UN already by just running off and fighting after they said "we shouldn't fight?!"

heh lol I'm dragging this a bit off-topic but honestly shouldn't the UN be taking care of this? Do we already own the UN now too?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1563845 - 05/20/03 09:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Strumpling:
Its like when you were a little kid and you would just try to hide your mistakes and lies, only to realize later "holy shit what a fucking stupid move.. I can't believe I didn't realize that I'd have to deal with this sooner or later.."

When I was a little kid?  I wish I had to think back that far for an example.  :smirk:

I don't think the current administration wants to "own" the U.N.  I think they want to discredit it, invalidate it.  To oversimplify it, neoliberals would be more likely to want to "own" the U.N.; neoconservatives are more likely to "go it alone."  Problem is I don't know how far to trust these categories. 


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: hongomon]
    #1565838 - 05/21/03 02:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Trust nothing...question everything!


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: Bush promising Palestinian State by 2005? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1567893 - 05/22/03 01:50 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Only thing that's different this time i think is that the majority of Palestinian and Israelis are tired of the nonsense and innocent deaths they just want the killings to stop. So until the extremeists on both sides get under control they'll have a problem. One should show initiative to want peace is the only thing.


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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