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ACorvus
Stranger
Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 120
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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ID Request (old and rotten)
#15582758 - 12/28/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi all,
I recently found a patch of woodchips and roses in a fairly urban area. I saw a few days ago what looked like a few very old wavy caps growing near the roses: the woodchips looked well rotted and the chips pretty decayed, in fact there were weeds growing through. Therefore I decided to try a rescue operation and grab some butts and mycelium for cardboard tek.
I think from the profile, gills, habitat etc that they may well be Ps. Cyanescens. In fact even though the stems are dark with age there is some bluing going on there. It's been very dry apart from torrential rain about 4 days ago, and in the photos I've captured some pins that are drying out again. I also managed to get some spores off a cap of one of these pins by wetting and wiping on paper - the colour is definitely not brown, more black with a hint of purple. I will add any pics I can get of this later.
Pictures follow..
Apologies for the poor quality of the fungi, I'd been looking for ages and if I'd got there a week earlier it probably would have been a lot easier.
Thanks
A
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HarryL
Squnä'am
Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 8,070
Loc: Washington State
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: ACorvus]
#15582770 - 12/28/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Looks old and rotten to me
But, I am not a TI.... Might want to wait for an experts opinion
-------------------- Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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suchen
Once and Future Noob
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: HarryL]
#15582848 - 12/28/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see the bluing you are talking about on a lot of the stems. It's definitely worth a shot at cardboard tek.
-------------------- Rod Tulloss said: The bulb is the bulb. The volva is the volva. They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”
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amilibertine
It’s good to be back!
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: suchen]
#15582882 - 12/28/11 01:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Could be dried out Psilocybe cyanescens. I wouldn't eat them though haha. Definitely would try the old cardboard tek as was mentioned already.
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,496
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: amilibertine]
#15582897 - 12/28/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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If we decide they are cyans, I'd just hit them with an alcahol extraction, and getfucked up
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes
Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: SomeGuy]
#15582918 - 12/28/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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might be rotten cyanescens but too far gone for consumption, still good for making LC.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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Ran-D
Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,323
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Looks like cyans to me, especially in pic #6.
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ACorvus
Stranger
Registered: 11/13/11
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Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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Cheers mjk,
In the state they are, how would you go about making an LC? I can't do it in the next few days, should I let the caps dry out totally and crush them to get the spores out?
Or would it be better to wash them with water and evaporate the residue, then treat that as a spore print? Just heard that LCs are very prone to contams.
I've already got the bits of soil and small chips I didn't put on the cardboard, mixed with some water, and plan to chuck that into a bed near a local library!
Cheers
Alex
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: amilibertine]
#15583102 - 12/28/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi all,
Just got my cardboard set up with the butts and myc and noticed lots of little flies and springtails jumping around in there.
I tried to keep everything clean and microwaved the tub and egg carton (which had already been soaked for 2 hours) and now am thinking these beasties are going to screw it up!
Any ideas?
A
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes
Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: ACorvus]
#15583150 - 12/28/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ACorvus said: Cheers mjk,
In the state they are, how would you go about making an LC? I can't do it in the next few days, should I let the caps dry out totally and crush them to get the spores out?
Or would it be better to wash them with water and evaporate the residue, then treat that as a spore print? Just heard that LCs are very prone to contams.
I've already got the bits of soil and small chips I didn't put on the cardboard, mixed with some water, and plan to chuck that into a bed near a local library!
Cheers
Alex
I would crush the mushrooms to make LC, (cyanescens are vicious so I don't worry about contaminates) use those stem butts and mycelium on some wet egg cartons and stick them in a clean zip-lock bag. The mushrooms in pictures 6 look a lot fresher than the others.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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fux234
Woodgnome
Registered: 09/22/10
Posts: 1,198
Loc: Westwood
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: ACorvus]
#15583157 - 12/28/11 02:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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i hope you also picked those with golden heads! they where good
and i dont think you will have probs with flies, just put the cardboard with mycelium in a tupperware and let it grow a bit
-------------------- "Carpe diem!" P.Semilanceata Germany
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: fux234]
#15583294 - 12/28/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi fux,
Well, I left all of those as I would have felt guilty - they were small, about 1.5cm across on the biggest one when I took the pic this morning. I went back in the dark and could not find them again.
However, since it looks like they are pretty much dying (no rain forecast and frost predicted again) I may just grab a couple.
I'm pretty sure there are some Galerinas in that patch tho so I have to be careful - does Gal myc grow on cardboard at all or if it does, is it easy to tell apart from Cyan myc?
Cheers
Alex
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: ACorvus]
#15583536 - 12/28/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Spores, as best as I could do with washing and wiping etc (no chance of a proper print on these).
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: ACorvus]
#15583855 - 12/28/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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The psilocybes will out compete galerina on cardboard, galerina doesn't do well on fresh cardboard. What did you do with the chips you dragged home pictured in your first post? I'd add them to about 20 times as many fresh chips and let them sit over the winter in a cool place.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: I would crush the mushrooms to make LC, (cyanescens are vicious so I don't worry about contaminates)
No way, mold outcompetes cyanescens in LC any day.
The correct way is spores or gill fragments -> agar, do a couple transfers and then make grain spawn. Use the grain spawn to inoculate wood chips, cardboard or egg cartons.
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fux234
Woodgnome
Registered: 09/22/10
Posts: 1,198
Loc: Westwood
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Hey Alex
I don´t think you have to feel guilty if you pick them, like you sai´d they where allready dried out, and you will (i think so) give the nature back what you took, because you try to start a new patch with the mycelium
so go back at you spot on daylight and hope the good ones are still there, take pictures and post them so we can ID them then you won´t eat gallerias
-------------------- "Carpe diem!" P.Semilanceata Germany
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: fux234]
#15586887 - 12/29/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, here you go. This is a couple of the pretty ones from pic 6, actually the biggest from the pic. They had become even more wrinkly so I rehydrated these in my deskside draw at work!
Caps:
Gills:
General:
The biggest cap is about 19-20mm across. The stems were pale before (see first msg pic 6) but where they where in contact with water they have gone brownish/blackish.
I will try to get a print off these now they are looking plump again.
Cheers
Alex
EDIT: Pin enlargements:
Edited by ACorvus (12/29/11 12:57 PM)
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sum0
Registered: 06/04/10
Posts: 733
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: ACorvus]
#15588932 - 12/29/11 07:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice pics! I especially like the Pin elargement part, looks like you could market that technique and sell it some people around here
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fux234
Woodgnome
Registered: 09/22/10
Posts: 1,198
Loc: Westwood
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: sum0]
#15590546 - 12/30/11 02:02 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah mate you got em! those are wonderfull cyans
-------------------- "Carpe diem!" P.Semilanceata Germany
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: sum0]
#15590651 - 12/30/11 03:29 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Haha! I like it. I didn't realise the humour in that when I posted it!
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) [Re: fux234]
#15590662 - 12/30/11 03:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks very much for the id. In the end the spore print didn't work, I think they had already dried out and dropped them all in a panic...
Let's hope the myc takes hold. I've made two card cultures, one from the first set and a "single egg dimple" with that last clump.
If it turns out only the little one works, could I wait for that one to colonise its little bit of card, then cut up that card into 6 or 12 and spawn a whole fresh carton from it?
Thanks to all for the help, this is a great place.
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) - spore micrograph [Re: fux234]
#15595943 - 12/31/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dug out my old microscope, it's not a great one and I had to use my mobile through the lens. Do these spores look roughly correct (mag 400x).
Cheers.
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ehtdaedlufetarg
Toadstool Taxonomy
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) - spore micrograph [Re: ACorvus]
#15596948 - 12/31/11 01:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yep.
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: ID Request (old and rotten) - spore micrograph [Re: ehtdaedlufetarg]
#15597600 - 12/31/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fantastic , as that was from a gill fragment on the rotten ones.
So it does look like both my collections are Ps. Cyan
My myc so far has only got vicious in one of my 9 egg box holes. I'm hoping it will start taking in the others. If it doesn't when should I cut my losses and chuck the non-growing ones?
I will move this thread to the growing forum before long...
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: ACorvus]
#15625307 - 01/06/12 12:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi all,
A week after placing my collected chips/butts on cardboard (I did boil and microwave it just to be sure) and I only got good growth in one "cell" of the egg box. There is a bit in another but it doesn't look right, ie not rhizomorphic. I added the bits of card on top to try to encourage more growth.
I have given good FAE and try not to lift the lid too much, temps are between 21 and 24 centigrade.
Numbering left to right, top to bottom, I see the correct behaviour in cell 5, suspect in 3 (and possibly 2).
Photo was taken 2 days ago, today I came back to it and all but 3 and 5 have suspicious grey fuzz on certain parts and have not progressed.
Therefore I split the carton up and kept cells 5 and 3 and one chip from the base of 6 that I found to have some rhizo-like stuff on the upper side.
The rest I chucked out, including 2 due to it's miserable performance.
Very frustrated as everyone else seems to get rampant growth on card. Could it be that this patch is so far gone that the myc is knackered and isn't really viable?
Starting to think about starting from spores now, don't want to miss this year's season. Or is this just a case of "less is more" plus don't try to propagate from anything including stem butts that had rotted and just put a chip or two in there?
I don't have the setup to do agar (ie flowhood/glovebox) but I could try a gill fragment in LC (I have jars and a PC).
Any advice most gratefully received.
A
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Registered: 04/18/10
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: ACorvus]
#15625327 - 01/06/12 12:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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just give it some time
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Ran-D
Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,323
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: ACorvus]
#15625329 - 01/06/12 12:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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The growth in 3 and 5 looks good to me, #3 will start looking more rhizomorphic as it spreads. I couldn't tell you what the grey fuzz was in the others..
You are a lot more likely to get fruits from that live mycelium next season than you are from spores IMO, keep it going.
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ACorvus
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: Ran-D]
#15625428 - 01/06/12 01:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi, thanks guys.
The grey fuzz looked as if it might be something nasty, possibly penicillium or the like. When I picked those bits out of the carton today a couple of them were really slimy on the bottom (and there was a faint "old sock" smell so I thought it best to cut my losses.
I managed to find another specimen:
A bit scary taking photos/samples this is really in a busy part of the capital, loads of people and cars going by!
I cleaned the stem and dunked it and the chips attached in warm pasteurised water to get the gunk off.
I've put the very bottom of the stem, a small section with no myc/chips, and 3 small chips in a new egg box, was really clean this time and put a large tyvek fabric window for FAE on the top.
The reason I worry about the "wrong" myc growth on 2 is that I also collected what I'm almost 100% is a galerina or pholiotina from the same spot. I *really* don't want that growing anywhere!
Cheers again.
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: ACorvus]
#15625446 - 01/06/12 01:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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what you aught to do is wash your hands and get a little bowl with a lid, go over there and grab a handful of those woodchips, and put them in a bowl. Take them home, or somewhere, in a shady spot and dump the bowl out and cover with 2 in. of wood chips. Thats been proven 100's of times, to work
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: SomeGuy]
#15625483 - 01/06/12 01:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi SomeGuy,
Trouble is this is a very public place (traffic roundabout) and I can't really wash my hands there!
Perhaps I'll have a go after I feel comfortable going there again, and once I've found a place for the new substrate (don't have one right now).
A
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falcon
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: ACorvus]
#15626281 - 01/06/12 04:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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temps are between 21 and 24 centigrade.
They like temps in the 5->10C better, and what SomeGuy said.
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ACorvus
Stranger
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: falcon]
#15628660 - 01/07/12 02:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Really? All the articles and posts I've seen about colonising cardboard and transfer to woodchips indoors say somewhere around 20C, as the myc grows faster. I thought 5-10C was the temp for fruiting, unless I'm mistaken (and you should really wait till frosts have passed for moving to the outdoor bed).
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falcon
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Re: Help! Cardboard not colonising! [Re: ACorvus]
#15629537 - 01/07/12 11:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've had the best results at 5->10, less contamination with other competing stuff.
edit: Quote:
(and you should really wait till frosts have passed for moving to the outdoor bed)
Nope, if your just transferring some colonized chips to some fresh chips, you can do this any time of the year.
Edited by falcon (01/07/12 12:46 PM)
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