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Offlineflanders53
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Pan subbs up in CNY...
    #1558212 - 05/18/03 07:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Hey New Yorkers just letting you know the pan subbs are up here in CNY. I picked a few yesterday and today..they are drying now. After the rains, the subbs dried out significantly in the intense sun these last two days. Hopefully we'll get some rain and much more will come up!! Good luck subb hunters.


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Offlineshowcivic17
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1558555 - 05/18/03 10:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

do u know if u can find subbs in western NY around buffalo


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Offlinewangyo
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: showcivic17]
    #1558898 - 05/18/03 11:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

hey man, from cny too. where abouts are you, maybe we can read the rules.


Edited by Gumby: I'm not going to trash a whole thread by moving it to the gathering forum. I suggest you read the very first thread in this forum(you know, the one that says "EVERYONE READ") that states the new rules. All requests for hunting partners belong in the Gathering forum.


Edited by GumbyDude (05/18/03 11:51 PM)


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1560629 - 05/19/03 05:59 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I think Pan Subbs probably come up around buffalo. I'm like 5 hours from there I think though.

wangyo - I'm in a situation where I can't really meet anyone. (probation...paranoid)

Thanks gumby for not moving it. Sorry wangyo, good luck though man.


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Offlineshowcivic17
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1562373 - 05/20/03 06:58 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I live near syracuse and I want to know if you
can find liberty's around here because i hard they only grow upstate new york near the mountains....It's just something i heard


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: showcivic17]
    #1562383 - 05/20/03 07:13 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Panaeolus subbalteatus is an early spring and early fall shroom. It most likely would not be growing right now in upper NY.

mjshroomer. Iff so it would be at riding stables and/or race tracks and most likely would not be foound in manure heaps.

mj


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1562399 - 05/20/03 07:36 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

MJ - Pan subbs are mainly found in rotting hay/manure in pastures, horse pastures correct?

I don't whether you are doubting me or not in you're post, and I don't think you are, but I just want to say that I'm absolutely positive these are pan subbs. I picked a shit load of them last year and tripped quite nicely on them. :smile:

I checked my other spot a few days ago...its was a large mound of horse manure/moist soil and small amounts of sand. It was bulldozed over!!! I almost cried. That spot produced many, many large fruits last year. :frown:

Civic- I looked for libertys last year but to no avail. I haven't heard of any being picked around here lately. I really wish I could find some. I'm not sure whether they come up around here or not. Maybe they are very rare. MJShroomer I would really appreciate some P. Semilanceata info for the state of NY if you have some. Thanks man.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1562549 - 05/20/03 10:49 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, Horse manure wmixed with stable shavings, wood flakes and hay compost with horse manure but not directly from horse manure.

And they are rare in cow manure.

Their main habitat is rotted hay.

Check Angry shrooms post here for some beautiful digital imaes of Panaeolus subbalteatus or lok at them in my field guide at my shroom site.

It would be nice if you posted some pictures.

your shrooms could be one of three or four different species hich macroscopically resemble PN. subbs.

Their normal season is early spring and early fall. Here and in Oregon they disappear right bout now before the hot months began. They do not grow in the hot summer months anywher einthe USA. and then they reappear, not as much inthe early fall.

Still a few images would be nice/.

you can always take a few specimens to Kinkos and scan them tot he shroomery. It is very easy to do. I have sent scanned images of shrooms over the internet when i did not have my camera with me.

mj


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1562589 - 05/20/03 11:33 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I dunno about all that. LK posted pics last summer of Pan subbs growing directly from horse manure.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Gumby]
    #1562758 - 05/20/03 01:38 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

A one in a million fruiting no doubt.

Joshua in Oregon found them in a lawn last year, a few pounds of them. However it did not return this year.

Another one in a million freuiting.

I found them in woodchips in five different times in Seattle in twenty-five years and only in cow manure about five times in thirty years. 99% of thetcollections I seen are like Angry Shrooms massive fruiting in Northern California from a compost heap.

Yes they can make that appearance but it is extremely rare and usually does not occur again for years. ANd usually in small amounts if in manure at all. I dfound one field on Maui in 1986 with P. subbs in cow manure and have never found them since that one.

And I go to pastures every year.

I usually avoid horse pastures becasue the liberty caps I like are in cattle fields more than where horses are.

mj

As I asked, a few pictures would be appreciative here inthe shroomery/.

mj


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Offlineshowcivic17
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1562989 - 05/20/03 03:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

So wait...liberty's arent common around CNY only upstate..please help me out because i don't want to waist my time looking for them...



and another thing i don't live near any horse tracks or pastures but theres a big thing of hay or straw in my back yard do you think pan. subbs will grow on that or no?

get back to me when u can


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Offlineshowcivic17
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: showcivic17]
    #1563027 - 05/20/03 03:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry for all the questions but i guess thats why your here.right?


i went on many sites and most of them said that liberty cap mushies dont grow in NY only in california and around there..this website is the only one that says that....so whats true??


i heard pan. subbs. are easily found on golf coarses and what luck theres one behind my house..

Thanks for all the help......


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Gumby]
    #1563060 - 05/20/03 03:35 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

GumbyDude I agree. I have picked Pan Subbs directly from horse manure also, but only once. John - I will post a picture of some that I ate last year. The image is a little small, but you can see their size pretty well. I fucking had the best trip of my life on these same mushrooms in the picture.

And MJ I also found two very tall Pan Subbs growing from what looked like the grass but I think there have been old wood chips there now I that I think about it. I am absolutely sure they were Pan Subbs too. There are pins outside right now, when they mature I will snap pictures for you. I will be tripping on the ones that I dry most likely this weekend.

**edit - I should probably add that the Pan Subbs in this box had been drying for about a day or so, which accounts for their ligher cap appearance. I believe these were picked around midsummer.



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Edited by flanders53 (05/20/03 03:36 PM)


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1563121 - 05/20/03 03:56 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

mj, the winter has been exceptionally long and nasty here in ny this season. so, parameters are currently in the "early spring" range. in fact, it has been so cold here that the first spring mushrooms of the year are popping out only now. so, i think flanders' got it quite right :smile: 


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: comario2]
    #1563307 - 05/20/03 05:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Flanders, I do not think that your shrooms are panaeolus subbalteatus.

The primary reason is that I have picked this shreoom for over twenty years and i have never seen a single shiny cap on a single specimen ever. Your caps are shiny and that is not the feathure of Panaelus subbalteatus.
Also your shrooms are completely conical and do not have the od bell shape of Panaeolus subbalteatus. They are most likely a related Panaeolus. But OI dpo not nbelieve they are subbs.

I wish you could post a much larger picture for me to scrutinize.

mj.



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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1563448 - 05/20/03 06:17 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Dude. I tripped harder than I've ever tripped before on those exact same mushrooms, the exact same night I took that picture. Ever spore print that I took came out JET BLACK. They are pan subbs.

Have you ever picked subbs from the east coast? I have read a few different sites that state that the appearance of Pan Subbs varies greatly from the east to the west.

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/080402-5/56591-DSCN0173.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="/forums/thumbs/080402-5/56591-thumb_DSCN0173.jpg"></a>

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/080402-5/71791-DSCN0180.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="/forums/thumbs/080402-5/71791-thumb_DSCN0180.jpg"></a>

<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/072802-33/73538-mush2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="/forums/thumbs/072802-33/73538-thumb_mush2.jpg"></a>



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Edited by flanders53 (05/20/03 06:24 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1563744 - 05/20/03 08:25 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

There are three relatives of panaeolus subbalteatus which resemble very closely are somewhat macroscopically similar to P. subbalteatus.

Panaeolus olivaceus, Panaeolus retirugis, and Panaeolus microsporus, a the latter is common in southern Ontario and the Northeast USA.

I am sure that your shrooms becauee of the specifics I mentioned above are probably one of those three species I just provided.

There are also Panaeolus moellariana, Panaeolus ater, and Panaeolus fimicola.

Those are all psychoactive and similar to P. subbalteatus.

But I still think your shrooms are one of the above three I first listed.













Notice the thickness and color of the stems. Notice that all the caps eventually become flat with age.

Thses are two features not in your mushrooms as are many i cited above.

Here is uyour photo enlarged to two hundred prescent. No way are yours the same mushroom.



mj
mj


Edited by mjshroomer (05/20/03 08:38 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1563761 - 05/20/03 08:33 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)



I will post this above to show comparison to other photos I posted. Again your shrooms are not Panaeolus subbalteatus.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1565060 - 05/21/03 07:04 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Bump


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Anonymous

Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1565896 - 05/21/03 02:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: ]
    #1565989 - 05/21/03 03:02 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Did you guys read the part where I said they had been drying for a day or so? Hmm...this is weird. These were found in a pasture, where hay had been rotting for a while. There was manure scattered in some places underneath the straw. They came up exactly like the fruits I've seen of Pan Subbs. They had jet black spore prints, hollow stems, exact same gills as Pan subbs. When I picked these last year, everyone here, including MJ I think, agreed they were subbs. Actually Mr Mushrooms, I believe you congratulated me on picking my first psychoactive mushroom.

How many grams does it take to trip from the relatives of Pan Subbs MJ? Maybe these aren't subbs...but all I can say is, my friends and I tripped reeeeaally nicely from them.

I did have another picking spot last year. It was in a horse pasture. I'm about 99% positive the fruits from that spot were subbs. They matched Angryshroom's pictures just about exactly.

At a young age, the mushrooms that we are debating resemble Pan Subbs very very closely, with the ring on the cap. I'm interested in figuring out what these are. When we ingested them, they didn't seem very potent. To trip on dry mushrooms we had to dose quite heavily. The fresh trip was BEAUTIFUL though!! I can't wait to do it again this year. Thanks MJ and Mr. Mushrooms, you input is appreciated and I'd like to hear more!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1566128 - 05/21/03 03:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

AS I mentioned, those are probably Panaeolus olivaceus or a similar Panaeolus. There are 13 species of Panaeolus od which the Pn. subbs are one.

Yes I beleive I remember saying they were subss at the time you originally found them but there were many differences in all of your photos.

I do have some images of dried P. subbs somewhere on my site which again do not even resemble your shroooms.

The main one is the thin stalked stem, An incurved margin on a shroom in the bottom right corner of your picture. The lack of the fibrils on mopst of your stems and the shiny glutinous looking film on the caps of soem of those shrooms inthe image you posted.

Also the caps are all conical with out deformity underneath them. And the conical in their drying in your images do not refelect the many shapes of the specie sin drying stages. They are all too uniformed in their bell shaped -conic shaped image. Again that is a big differenence intheir ID as P. subbs.

They could be in the Panaeous cataneifolius/retrugis/olivaceus complex.

Buit they are not the PN. subbs like int he Angry Shroom photos I posted.

mj

Have a shroomy day


Edited by mjshroomer (05/21/03 03:45 PM)


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1566301 - 05/21/03 04:36 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks MJ. I will look around the web, and try to find out what they are. They will be back this year I believe, and we'll try to figure them out, I'll take more detailed pics. I picked mushrooms from a different spot than the ones in the photo, and they looked like Angryshroom's subbs. I think they were subbs, but the mushrooms in the pics in this thread probably aren't.

Can you tell me the approximate wet dosage for a level 4 trip for pan casters, retrugis, and olivaceus? thanks for you're help man.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1566615 - 05/21/03 06:40 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

They are all basically one fresh ounce or more to a level three-to-five trip. or from 3-5 grams dried. If they are properly dried.

I might mention that the other post I relooked at his images and again the stems seem awful tall fo PN. subbs.

It is still an extremely rare shroom although it is common. When I say rare, I am talking unless it is in a compost heap, usually people who find them in manure or in cow fields or lawns, never find more than an ounce or two fresh to beigin with.

I jsut wrote MR. Mushroom a long letter about this confusion. I today saw an unidentified Panaeolus in alawn with a silvery stem and ap shiny like a membrane on it. My fotos were all blurry so I could not post it.

Anyway,Angry Shrooms shrooms are true subbs.
many people ID Panaeolina foenisecii as Pan. Subb and even say theat the sproe print is black, but when i look at their prints they are a dark chocolate brown.

many ID the bluing on shroms by7 saying that they had a purple ring, tyet the color is not in the sense as we know it the color purple.

Some say the spores are blue when they are not, or that the shrooms turn purple. yet it is blue that they turn.
}
Or all the users who smoke shrooms and say they get high.

I have shown pictures of deadly Galerina autumnalis to many people who have told me they ate them before and got real high.
So macroscopic ID, unless someone has a really good camera, is hard at times.

Try to photograph them where they are growing so people can see.

A 35 millimeter camera used can be bought for under 50.00. Ahora closeup lens run about fourty dollars for three sizes. Put them on the front lens and you can get a good image. Not the best but better than ones posted.
have a shroomy day

mj


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1566859 - 05/21/03 08:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Hey MJ. I have a digital camera. It shoots at 3.2 or 3.3 megapixels. As a matter of fact, the pic I showed earlier was shot with the same camera. I had to resize the image so that it would fit the upload limit for these forums.

When there is a decent amount of fruits, I will photograph the habitat of these. I am absolutely sure they aren't P. Foen. You talked of blueing in your last post. I did not notice any blueing in the mycelium of these mushrooms, I did however, notice slight tinges of blue in the mycelium of the Subbs I picked from my other spot(the horse pasture) Gumbydude even commented last year that he saw blueing in it. I am absolutely positive that the spore prints were black, especially since there were so many of them to look at. I wonder what these could be. I'd like to identify them as soon as possible. Some more should be coming up with the next rains here in NY. Keep in touch.


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1566866 - 05/21/03 08:11 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

PS - MJ, can you direct me to some links that have good descriptions/pictures of the species that could potentially be what I was and am picking? Thanks!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567526 - 05/21/03 11:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The only books on the panaolus are in French and German.

Ola'hs Le Genre Panaeolus and Ewald Gerhardt's Monograph on the genera in German.

Today I photographed another species of Panaeous of which i do not know which one and the camera blurred each image so I did not post them.

Sometimes my ddigital takes nice pictures and other times it doesnt.

Oh Yews, you can post a large 250 mb piture at mycotopia and then copy it to the shroomery. Thats how I post larger images.

mj


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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567542 - 05/21/03 11:48 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

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OfflineQuintessence
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... *DELETED* [Re: flanders53]
    #1567571 - 05/21/03 11:55 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Quintessence


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Quintessence]
    #1567575 - 05/21/03 11:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

:smile: Thanks alot guys! I will take some prints when they mature more and there are more of them. So far there aren't very many. :frown: I will keep in touch!


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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567587 - 05/22/03 12:03 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Those are the exact same Panaeolus that I find mixed in with my pan subb patch, and yes-- they *are* active and do drop jet black spore prints. They very rarely, if ever show bluing, but they are active for sure. I'm guessing that they're Panaeolus oliviaceus... they look very simliar.

Thats the thing I hate about Panaeolus- the genus is simple as hell to identify, but narrowing it down to a species is tough. There are so many species of Panaeolus and there is so little information and pictures. Another that makes it tough is that once the sun hits them... it's damn near impossible to ID them after that color on the cap fades.


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Gumby]
    #1567600 - 05/22/03 12:07 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah Gumby! Thanks for the input man!! Olivaceus eh...hmm. Never would've thought. I'll look them up now. How did you like the trips from them man?? Not too potent eh? Did you eat any fresh?


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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: flanders53]
    #1567631 - 05/22/03 12:20 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Heh... not potent by any means :\
There were never enough avaliable to try them fresh, always had to stock pile them. A friend( :wink: ) ate around 6 grams dry and had a nice level 3ish experience. 


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Offlineflanders53
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Re: Pan subbs up in CNY... [Re: Gumby]
    #1567653 - 05/22/03 12:28 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, same here. We ate them dry a number of times. Kinda nasty. Had a fresh trip though...mmm mm good! Like store bought mushies they tasted. Very visual! I loved it. We split two sandwich baggies three ways. I'd say about 2+ ounces but I dunno...


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