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Offlinemycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Skikid16]
    #1559470 - 05/19/03 06:06 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

School sponsored or not it was a high school prom. If a school has the right to bust a graduation party for underage drinking and then also punish the kids when they return to school then why the hell did they do nothing about a whites only prom. They had every right to intervine and they did nothing nor did the government. And as far as I am concerned yes if a person wants to be racist that all fine and dandy UNTIL it infringes on the freedom and rights of another individual. Whats next whites only restaurants,churches,and business's after all by your logic ANY privately owned business or gathering has the right to racisism.

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Skikid16]
    #1560424 - 05/19/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

skikid:

true, but if a person beleives that america is the apex of human achievement, then they would seriously delusional.

i just think its really unhealthy to assign a grandiose identity to ones nation......it clouds the mind.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: mycophat]
    #1562113 - 05/20/03 12:42 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

And as far as I am concerned yes if a person wants to be racist that all fine and dandy UNTIL it infringes on the freedom and rights of another individual. Whats next whites only restaurants,churches,and business's after all by your logic ANY privately owned business or gathering has the right to racisism.


Well, for the sake of argument, how would whites only restaurants, churges, and business's infringe upon anyone's rights, after all, you said its alright if someone wants to be racists as long as it doesn't infringe upon one's rights.


With that said let me state that I am not for segregation, I am for freedom to expression, regardless of how ignorant that expression may be.


And as far as the school not interveining, its not their place. I did not know that a school can bust people for underage drinking, especially if the underage drinking did not occur on school property. I thought that was the police's job.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1562121 - 05/20/03 12:44 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

fair enough, but at the same time, credit must be given where credit is due.

America may not be the apex of human existence, but it is up there.



--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Skikid16]
    #1562263 - 05/20/03 02:05 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)


America may not be the apex of human existence, but it is up there.

I agree.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Skikid16]
    #1562388 - 05/20/03 05:17 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Well, for the sake of argument, how would whites only restaurants, churges, and business's infringe upon anyone's rights, after all, you said its alright if someone wants to be racists as long as it doesn't infringe upon one's rights.




resturants, Churches and businesses are usually in the PUBLIC sector. Any business in the public sector has to allow the public access to their establishment.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1562500 - 05/20/03 07:57 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

true, but if a person beleives that america is the apex of human achievement, then they would seriously delusional.




Whats better in history than the United States, for all its problems? Ancient Rome? Hey, at least we dont feed the religious minorities to the lions. Those old South Sea cultures? Mmm...Cannabalism. Or, maybe your into all those baby-sacrificing pagan civilizations.

The Western World today, not just America, but most of Europe and parts of Asia, ARE the apex of human civilization. Not to say it wont go UP from here. But this is the best its EVER been.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1562602 - 05/20/03 09:43 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Well, for the sake of argument, how would whites only restaurants, churges, and business's infringe upon anyone's rights, after all, you said its alright if someone wants to be racists as long as it doesn't infringe upon one's rights.




resturants, Churches and businesses are usually in the PUBLIC sector. Any business in the public sector has to allow the public access to their establishment.



What do you mean by 'public sector?' Do you mean that privately owned and operated properties and institutions are under the domain of the public? Should the government tell you who you can allow in your front yard because the public has ready access to it and it's visible from public roads? Should the boy scouts be forced to allow girls in? Should the girl scouts be forced to allow boys in? Should the NAACP be forced to accept David Duke as a member?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Evolving]
    #1562667 - 05/20/03 10:38 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Do you mean that privately owned and operated properties and institutions are under the domain of the public?




Maybe i worded that wrong, No i don't think the above examples should be forced. I was referring to resturants, stores, etc. For example the boyscouts, if they get funded by private money should be able to allow anyone they want at the same time excluding those they don't want.

i guess i was also referring to your local McDonalds, Ram's Horn, HO-JO's etc.

Quote:

Should the NAACP be forced to accept David Duke as a member?




I wish i could say yes to this one for the pure comedic value of what would happen.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1562793 - 05/20/03 11:54 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

madtown tripper:

"The Western World today, not just America, but most of Europe and parts of Asia, ARE the apex of human civilization. Not to say it wont go UP from here. But this is the best its EVER been"

that is the silliest shit ive ever heard in my life. what about ancient indegenous cultures who didnt rely on civilization to survive? how do you define "best", mass depression, mindless consumption, toxic waste, office massacres, atomic bombs, explotation, genocide.....etc etc

this is the best its EVER been? you are so confident, how? why is american culture better than tibeten culture? why is america more amazing than cuba?

you are missing my point. what im trying to bring attention to is ethnocentricism, and how it clouds people's minds.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1562962 - 05/20/03 12:57 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not sure if you meant to reply to me but i'll answer anyways

Quote:

what about ancient indegenous cultures who didnt rely on civilization to survive




which culture would that be?

Incas, Aztecs, Toltecs, Mayans, Egyptians, Romans, Indians and many others relied on civilization to survive.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1563081 - 05/20/03 01:42 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)



wow innvertigo, i didnt know that!

you see, thats why I said "indegenous cultures who didnt rely on civilization to survive"

in this comment, I was reffering to the cultures that DIDNT rely on civilization. as opposed to the cultures that DID.

the important word here is "didnt".

sorry for the confusion.

examples: kalahari bushmen, inuit, Cheyenne etc etc.



--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Evolving]
    #1563128 - 05/20/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well, for the sake of argument, how would whites only restaurants, churges, and business's infringe upon anyone's rights, after all, you said its alright if someone wants to be racists as long as it doesn't infringe upon one's rights.




resturants, Churches and businesses are usually in the PUBLIC sector. Any business in the public sector has to allow the public access to their establishment.



What do you mean by 'public sector?' Do you mean that privately owned and operated properties and institutions are under the domain of the public? Should the government tell you who you can allow in your front yard because the public has ready access to it and it's visible from public roads? Should the boy scouts be forced to allow girls in? Should the girl scouts be forced to allow boys in? Should the NAACP be forced to accept David Duke as a member?



You have to sign up and become a member of the boy scouts or the NAACP. These are not in the public sector. If you allow the general public in, you exclude anyone based on race, gender, creed, etc. This is why malls are in the public sector, even if they are privately owned.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1563178 - 05/20/03 02:14 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

examples: kalahari bushmen, inuit, Cheyenne




didn't the Cheyanne (Indians) have civilizations and hierarchy?? The Bushmen i'm not sure about.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1563264 - 05/20/03 02:53 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

We'll start with MY quote.
Quote:

"The Western World today, not just America, but most of Europe and parts of Asia, ARE the apex of human civilization.




Then, we have YOUR quote.
Quote:

that is the silliest shit ive ever heard in my life. what about ancient indegenous cultures who didnt rely on civilization to survive?




So. If *I* was talking about the "apex of human CIVILIZATION", then wouldnt a group of humans outside of CIVILIZATION be excluded? Or, am I missing something?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1563605 - 05/20/03 05:26 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Regarding "The Western World today, not just America, but most of Europe and parts of Asia, ARE the apex of human civilization."

I'm just going to jump in long enough to share a Dickens quote:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way- in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

(Dickens, C. Tale of Two Cities)

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: hongomon]
    #1564788 - 05/21/03 12:30 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

madtowntripper: touche'

but thats my fault, civilization is a very broad term, and i wish not to get into semantics.

what im trying to say is, you are wrong, and i am right.

now do you understand?

listen. america is not the pinnacle of human culture/civilization/existence, or whatever the fuck we want to call it. all of the great advancements and achievements that have been produced in the west are balanced with all the great dissappointments and waste that has also been produced in the west.



--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1565467 - 05/21/03 10:49 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

And I still refuse to believe that. You really think that RIGHT now, In the Western World, people arent better off, on the WHOLE, than they have ever been before?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1566202 - 05/21/03 02:03 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

madtowntripper:

some are better off, some are worse off.

but anyways, better off than what? are we comparing all human life that has ever existed to the modern western world?

im wondering how much you know about "the western world", what are you taking into consideration when you refer to those words?

yes, life is easy in the western world, but also, it is often devoid of meaning. In the sense that, people spend their whole life working a shit job that doesnt have any positive bearing on anyone.

for example......lets say you work as a marketing executive, marketing junk food to kids. Sure, you make alot of money, and your job is really easy. but you dedicate 48 hours a week to useless, pointless waste. Sure, you'll make enough money to buy alot of "stuff" like....a big house, a big TV, a benz, a boat...whatever the fuck you want. But in the end, your life has no substance, no adventure, and no honour.

compare that to a hunter gatherer nomad. you roam around the plains looking for food and a good place to camp, your whole life is a battle of survival. you see an animal, and you use all your physical and mental energy to kill it. if you suceed, you feed the whole tribe and keep those around you alive.

sure, its alot harder....but it has meaning. you're not on anti-depressents watching other humans kill each other on some glowing electronic device, you dont sit and think all day....why am i here? my life is pointless.

now i realize, that this example is obviously very advantageous for my argument, but i think it proves my point. it all depends on how you define "better off", if you are reffering to material success, yes definitly.

in summary, I myself would not want to have grown up in any other place or in any other time, but to say that the western world is "the best ever" is an ethnocentric statement, plain and simple.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

Edited by atomikfunksoldier (05/21/03 02:07 PM)

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Fuck America! Stew [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1566316 - 05/21/03 02:43 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

compare that to a hunter gatherer nomad. you roam around the plains looking for food and a good place to camp, your whole life is a battle of survival. you see an animal, and you use all your physical and mental energy to kill it. if you suceed, you feed the whole tribe and keep those around you alive.




That is living, all we do is exist...
This is the worst its ever been.


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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