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Offlinemyceliumaster
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Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes?
    #15525435 - 12/16/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So I built the Shot Gun Fruiting Chamber with 5 inches of perlite on the bottom. The relative Humidity in my house is 35%, but the fruiting chamber would only raise up to 70% according to my electronic hygrometer. I plugged up 1 (of 3) row of holes above the perlite by taping from the inside. I also sealed about 1/2 of the holes on the top via the same method. At this point I have left the holes on the bottom and on the lower sides (where the perlite is) untouched. I am wondering where I should continue to seal holes since my humidity is only now raising to 82%? Before I seal anymore I'm going to give my newly dunked and rolled cakes an air exchange and light misting (having taking the hygrometer out first, I've heard their finicky). If the rH refuses to rise above 95% at this point, should I seal another row of holes above the perlite, and continue doing so in that way? I'm fairly sure the rH will be above 95% via this method before having to close and perlite holes, however, I fear that defeats the purpose of the design and prevents all air exchange. Any tips?

Edited by myceliumaster (12/16/11 10:13 AM)

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OfflineEvil Toadstool
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: myceliumaster]
    #15525499 - 12/16/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've always had great results and I've never drilled a hole in any fruiting chamber I've ever used. A good fanning 3 or 4 times a day is all you need. I'd plug all the holes.

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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: myceliumaster]
    #15525503 - 12/16/11 10:27 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Don't use an electronic hygrometer. Go to a pet shop in the reptile section and pick up an anolog one. The electronic ones do not read accurately above a certain point (for you I am guessing it's 70%)

If you are still having issues make sure to stagger the holes you are plugging and don't plug up an entire row.

Also do a search on how to properly calibrate an analog hygrometer to make sure you are getting a good reading.


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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Evil Toadstool]
    #15525512 - 12/16/11 10:30 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Evil Toadstool said:
I've always had great results and I've never drilled a hole in any fruiting chamber I've ever used. A good fanning 3 or 4 times a day is all you need. I'd plug all the holes.




I would not, and I don't think many people here would. You want to give your cakes as much FAE as possible. The more holes you can have without compromising the RH the better. Listen to the collective experience from Vetrin growers.


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OfflineEvil Toadstool
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: audiophoenix]
    #15525550 - 12/16/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Quote:

Evil Toadstool said:
I've always had great results and I've never drilled a hole in any fruiting chamber I've ever used. A good fanning 3 or 4 times a day is all you need. I'd plug all the holes.




I would not, and I don't think many people here would. You want to give your cakes as much FAE as possible. The more holes you can have without compromising the RH the better. Listen to the collective experience from Vetrin growers.


To each their own.

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Offlineroaddog
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: audiophoenix]
    #15525556 - 12/16/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Quote:

Evil Toadstool said:
I've always had great results and I've never drilled a hole in any fruiting chamber I've ever used. A good fanning 3 or 4 times a day is all you need. I'd plug all the holes.




I would not, and I don't think many people here would. You want to give your cakes as much FAE as possible. The more holes you can have without compromising the RH the better. Listen to the collective experience from Vetrin growers.



yes I agree, and also, I would really make sure your hygrometer, is calibrated correctly, Also I like to spray right on the growing mushrooms, and substrate. Just dont leave them constantly dripping wet. always allow them some time to dry a little, before respraying.

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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Evil Toadstool]
    #15525558 - 12/16/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

RR says the best thing to do with a hygrometer is break the lcd screen then write 100% on the face in marker.


--------------------
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”- Dr. Seuss

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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: myceliumaster]
    #15525581 - 12/16/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No one's asked yet, so I'll dare to. What size are your holes? Do you have a picture that shows your setup?


--------------------
Respectfully,
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All information is obtained for mycological study in identifying and characterizing edible mushrooms. All suggestions are offered with a grain of salt :glittershitz: as the gathering of this information is for microscopy and very well IS ONLY regurgitated information found across the internet, books and other media. :nyan: It's okay you can ignore me because I'm female, society raised you to be sexist. I don't blame you, if the world told me I was superior I'd believe them too.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Rewindicus]
    #15525664 - 12/16/11 11:03 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rewindicus said:
RR says the best thing to do with a hygrometer is break the lcd screen then write 100% on the face in marker.



sure that will work, but I usually take them apart, and adjust them from the inside. But a magic marker will make it easy.

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Offlinemyceliumaster
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: roaddog]
    #15526389 - 12/16/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)
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So upon sealing a few more holes and fanning, then spraying and closing the container immediately, I improved the rH to 90%. Is this sufficient if it is being read properly? My holes are 1/4 inch and they are drilled and spaced apart apx. 2-3 inches in a grid pattern as Roger Rabbit describes. Looking in from the outside (this last time I took the hygrometer out and sprayed in and sealed the mist in) it looks very moist/misty on the inside, but no water droplets are forming on the top. The sides have droplets on them, but only because I sprayed them. Images below.

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OfflineDudester67
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: audiophoenix] * 1
    #15526875 - 12/16/11 03:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Evil Toadstool said:
I've always had great results and I've never drilled a hole in any fruiting chamber I've ever used.



Finally... someone with the balls to share what some of us know to be true.  Not that holes aren't beneficial, but they are not necessary for growing cubes.

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Listen to the collective experience from Vetrin growers.



The "Vetrin" growers you refer to are actually mostly noobs who have never tried using any other types of fruiting chambers.  Many of the real veterans I see these days are actually using spawn bags as fruiting chambers! (which I think is crazy!)  Go figure...

Here are what some hole-less fruiting chambers look like:



And I'm certainly not knocking the shotgun.  I LOVE that design.  When I first saw it in '08 I said to myself, "HOLY SHIT!!! That's brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?!"  People had already started drilling holes in their tubs by the mid '00's but RR introduced the six-sided, 1/4" holed design.

I guess I just get frustrated with the "shotgun nazis" on this site who insist that it's the only acceptable fruiting chamber and write silly things like "perlite won't work without holes on the bottom" or "you'll surely FAIL without holes on all six sides" when really they're just clueless noobs.  It frustrates me because I want people to know why things work the way that they work and not just to follow a step-by-step cookbook version of mycology.

And as much as I love the shotgun, I have a few issues/questions/concerns about the design, and the few times that I've tried to raise them with RR he totally ducks them.  Bummer!

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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Dudester67]
    #15526928 - 12/16/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dudester67 said:
Quote:

Evil Toadstool said:
I've always had great results and I've never drilled a hole in any fruiting chamber I've ever used.



Finally... someone with the balls to share what some of us know to be true.  Not that holes aren't beneficial, but they are not necessary for growing cubes.

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Listen to the collective experience from Vetrin growers.



The "Vetrin" growers you refer to are actually mostly noobs who have never tried using any other types of fruiting chambers.  Many of the real veterans I see these days are actually using spawn bags as fruiting chambers! (which I think is crazy!)  Go figure...

Here are what some hole-less fruiting chambers look like:



And I'm certainly not knocking the shotgun.  I LOVE that design.  When I first saw it in '08 I said to myself, "HOLY SHIT!!! That's brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?!"  People had already started drilling holes in their tubs by the mid '00's but RR introduced the six-sided, 1/4" holed design.

I guess I just get frustrated with the "shotgun nazis" on this site who insist that it's the only acceptable fruiting chamber and write silly things like "perlite won't work without holes on the bottom" or "you'll surely FAIL without holes on all six sides" when really they're just clueless noobs.  It frustrates me because I want people to know why things work the way that they work and not just to follow a step-by-step cookbook version of mycology.

And as much as I love the shotgun, I have a few issues/questions/concerns about the design, and the few times that I've tried to raise them with RR he totally ducks them.  Bummer!




Not here to argue, but OP is using a hygrometer that isn't even giving him accurate readings. Chances are that his SGFC is just fine. :shrug: Almost everyone has great success with the SGFC, so why fix what isn't broken?


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OfflineDudester67
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: audiophoenix]
    #15527073 - 12/16/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Not here to argue, but OP is using a hygrometer that isn't even giving him accurate readings. Chances are that his SGFC is just fine. :shrug: Almost everyone has great success with the SGFC, so why fix what isn't broken?




Yeah yeah I agree, I think the shotgun is great and if he built it to specs then it's probably fine.  I didn't mean for my post to sound so argumentative, I think it was just a culmination of many recents posts I've read where I've kept my mouth shut and finally I had to let it out!  And please understand, my frustration comes only from a desire to help people learn and not get misled by bad info.

And by the way, I think those pet store hygrometers for reptiles are nearly as bad as the digital ones.  I've actually found however some good, cheap 'made by slave labor' hygros that work pretty well.  But the pet store ones I've used have all been shit.  I guess it just depends on the particular unit.

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OfflineCircleofFifths
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: audiophoenix]
    #15527954 - 12/16/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Not here to argue, but OP is using a hygrometer that isn't even giving him accurate readings. Chances are that his SGFC is just fine. :shrug: Almost everyone has great success with the SGFC, so why fix what isn't broken?




I have the same problem with mine. 70% on my hygrometer is in reality 95% humidity. I just know to keep mine between 65 and 70% and I'm golden.

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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: CircleofFifths]
    #15528048 - 12/16/11 08:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

So I built the Shot Gun Fruiting Chamber with 5 inches of perlite on the bottom. The relative Humidity in my house is 35%, but the fruiting chamber would only raise up to 70% according to my electronic hygrometer.




Use the search posts function here with my username and the words 'digital hygrometer', 'calibrate', and 'car tire' for my suggested calibration method.

If you built your shotgun terrarium per the tek, forget humidity because it IS right.

Others are absolutely correct above that you need not have any holes if you fan often enough to keep the CO2 level below 1000 ppm.  If you don't want to fan several times daily, build a shotgun terrarium per the tek and it will provide humidity and fresh air as required.
RR


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Dudester67]
    #15528055 - 12/16/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dudester67 said:
I have a few issues/questions/concerns about the design, and the few times that I've tried to raise them with RR he totally ducks them.  Bummer!




wtf?  :shrug:
RR


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15528064 - 12/16/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RR said:
If you built your shotgun terrarium per the tek, forget humidity because it IS right.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Phoenix Crash]
    #15528427 - 12/16/11 10:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Not picking on the SGFC, but what about fruit flies? My logical mind wants to plug the holes.


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Edited by wavyedge (12/16/11 10:21 PM)

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OfflineCircleofFifths
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: myceliumaster]
    #15529362 - 12/17/11 05:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

myceliumaster said:
So upon sealing a few more holes and fanning, then spraying and closing the container immediately, I improved the rH to 90%. Is this sufficient if it is being read properly? My holes are 1/4 inch and they are drilled and spaced apart apx. 2-3 inches in a grid pattern as Roger Rabbit describes. Looking in from the outside (this last time I took the hygrometer out and sprayed in and sealed the mist in) it looks very moist/misty on the inside, but no water droplets are forming on the top. The sides have droplets on them, but only because I sprayed them. Images below.




If you keep sealing up all of the holes then you no longer have issues with a SGFC because it no longer is one.

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OfflineDudester67
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: CircleofFifths]
    #15529417 - 12/17/11 06:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
wtf?  :shrug:
RR




okay... well actually i have a bunch of questions and curiosities about your design, but for now I'll try to keep it basic and not get too nerdy on the physics.

You are fond of saying that taping up holes will actually lower the humidity in a SGFC, not raise it. (which i personally think is a crock but lets put that aside.  ...now obviously taping up holes will impede airflow, but I want to stick to the issue of maintaining 90's RH, which at least according to Stamets is necessary for pin formation).

So I'll just pose a question:

Why wouldn't holes 1" apart be better than holes 2" apart?

Edited by Dudester67 (12/19/11 01:19 PM)

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OfflineDudester67
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: wavyedge]
    #15529428 - 12/17/11 06:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

straightedge said:
Not picking on the SGFC, but what about fruit flies? My logical mind wants to plug the holes.




dude, fungus gnats will get inside your terrarium no matter what.  Those bastards are so clever they'll find there way into a vacuum seal...

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Dudester67]
    #15529532 - 12/17/11 07:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Why wouldn't holes 1" apart be better than holes 2" apart?




Since you think what I say about taping holes will reduce humidity is a crock, why would you want to drill twice as many holes?
RR


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: wavyedge]
    #15529663 - 12/17/11 08:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

straightedge said:
Not picking on the SGFC, but what about fruit flies? My logical mind wants to plug the holes.



they are not fruit flies, they are called fungus gnats. They are attracted to contamination. No contamination, no fungus gnats.

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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: roaddog]
    #15529725 - 12/17/11 09:02 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

they are not fruit flies, they are called fungus gnats. They are attracted to contamination. No contamination, no fungus gnats.





That is incorrect.  They're attracted to the smell of mycelium.

They breed in houseplants, especially those indoors over winter which have been over watered.  If one finds the infected houseplant and removes it, the fungus gnat problem goes away.

They're also attracted to wine and beer, so a small glass of each near the terrarium will lure them to that where they drown.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Dudester67]
    #15529729 - 12/17/11 09:05 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dudester67 said:
Quote:

straightedge said:
Not picking on the SGFC, but what about fruit flies? My logical mind wants to plug the holes.




dude, fungus gnats will get inside your terrarium no matter what.  Those bastards are so clever they'll find there way into a vacuum seal...





Just workin' my way up to 50 posts. :smirk:

Man, back in the day those lil minions used to stress me out. Keep in mind, at the time I was still under the spell of keeping everything 'sterile' from spores to fruit mentality ( think airpump mono) and in my mind that was a disaster flag. At least to my *sterilized* casing :shocked: haha. Glad those days are over.

Dude, You're right about that, they're ninjas...no matter what I did, they'd find a way. haha. That too was the one gripe about the SGFC that scared me. But RR said they really don't do any damage and suck em up with a vacuum or put a juice/wine bottle out. I trusted him and now it's all gravy.

Funny thing though, I used to get them constantly but now that I find them interesting and even welcome them, I haven't seen more than 1 or 2 a year around my grows. I guess no tree frogs for me. :frown:  haha.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Dudester67]
    #15529738 - 12/17/11 09:07 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dudester67 said:
Saying that taping up holes will actually lower the humidity in a SGFC, not raise it. (which i personally think is a crock.



The FIRST thought that entered my mind, immediately after that post was read is "How is moisture going to evaporate from the substrate so that the RH can be raised in the first place with out the contact of fresh-air?".

Have SOME empathy.  The purpose of handing out the advise of sticking-to-teks is for newbs.  Cubensis can be grown in any-old box/storage-tote so long as a proper regimen of fresh-air is supplied.  The time it takes to construct a SGFC and the time it takes to maintain one over a sealed terrarium is why this researcher opts to use the SGFC over an old-world-style, sealed terrarium.


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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15529786 - 12/17/11 09:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

they are not fruit flies, they are called fungus gnats. They are attracted to contamination. No contamination, no fungus gnats.





That is incorrect.  They're attracted to the smell of mycelium.

They breed in houseplants, especially those indoors over winter which have been over watered.  If one finds the infected houseplant and removes it, the fungus gnat problem goes away.

They're also attracted to wine and beer, so a small glass of each near the terrarium will lure them to that where they drown.
RR



OK, yes. I should have not given such a quick answer. I meant gnats will not hurt anything, meaning they wont crawl in your substrate and lay eggs, and reproduce, unless there is contamination present. I have them in my grow space.Especially since I grow marijuana and mushrooms together. They just dont pose a problem, until there is contamination, then I notice the numbers, can grow.  Also I have found that they will sometimes try to crawl in to jars, that have bacteria. Same with a colonizing substrate, that is having problems with bacteria. I find the more bacteria, the more gnats. You are correct about the plants, But I use a layer of sand, on top of my soil, to stop them, If I notice a problem. Also use the yellow sticky strips, predatorial insects, and arachnids. You are also correct about alcohol. They drive me up a wall, when I make moonshine. some times they will utterly swarm my worm coils, trying to get into the fresh made moonshine, so they can kill themselves, if the fall in my collection vessel. The reason they are attracted to alcohol, is alcohol is bacteria waist, its the bacteria, they are after. Wouldn't you agree?

Edited by roaddog (12/17/11 11:44 AM)

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Offlinemyceliumaster
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: roaddog]
    #15530022 - 12/17/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmm... So when I open the chamber it's humid... I assume as long as I exchange air 4-5 times per day and mist each time I should be fine with half the holes plugged. I've gotten mixed response on whether or not you can fae via fanning/misting too much. My understanding is that as long as moisture is replaced each time air is exchanged and the mycelium isn't drenched it should be fine. Does that mean exchanging air 5ish (4-6) times a day is better then 3, or not necessarily in people's experience?

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Offlineroaddog
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: myceliumaster]
    #15530047 - 12/17/11 10:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I imagine you will do like everyone else, fan heavy, the first few grows, then as you get experience, you can maybe back off. Point is, there is no such thing as too much fresh air, but dont let them dry out ether.

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OfflineDudester67
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: hamloaf]
    #15531857 - 12/17/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

dudester67 said:
Why wouldn't holes 1" apart be better than holes 2" apart?




Since you think what I say about taping holes will reduce humidity is a crock, why would you want to drill twice as many holes?
RR




A total dodge.  Very disappointing from someone I hold in such high esteem.    :shake:

Similarly dodged a few months ago: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15061586#15061586
And similarly dodged in a thread from '09 which at the moment I don't feel like searching for.

Quote:

hamloaf said:
The FIRST thought that entered my mind, immediately after that post was read is "How is moisture going to evaporate from the substrate so that the RH can be raised in the first place with out the contact of fresh-air?".





Proper RH is maintained by the perlite alone.  I'm not sure I totally understand your question.  Moisture will evaporate from the sub regardless, unless you conceal it in a truly FULL saturation RH environment which is pretty much impossible to do.


And regarding fungus gnats, the best way to control their population is with those yellow sticky pads you can find at garden stores.  I've tried the "wine bottle technique" but with minimal success.  It seems the gnats prefer mycelium over wine.  (Can you blame them?!)

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Invisibletryptonite
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Dudester67]
    #15533696 - 12/18/11 05:48 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Phoenix Crash said:
Quote:

RR said:
If you built your shotgun terrarium per the tek, forget humidity because it IS right.




:whathesaid:




what if a shotgun chamber was used without any holes in the lid? due to the fact that cheap plastic lids break very easily when drilling holes in them

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InvisibleDr.Boomstik
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: tryptonite]
    #15533707 - 12/18/11 05:57 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"what if a shotgun chamber was used without any holes in the lid? due to the fact that cheap plastic lids break very easily when drilling holes in them" - more fanning will help alleviate any problems OR ...

A new sharp drill bit, light but steady pressure, and some Hot water to soften up the plastic will work wonders for you. In fact, I usually put a screen in the drain to catch plastic pieces and do all my drilling in the tub/shower with hot water pouring over the tote. That is, until my glasses fog up. :laugh:


--------------------
Expect poison from standing water.

The best wine is the oldest. The best water, the newest.

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OfflineTony Camargo
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Rewindicus]
    #24979933 - 02/10/18 12:04 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

People take this shit seriously so stop posting nonsense plus NOONE likes a smartass so keep your opinion to yourself!!

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InvisibleZiran
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Tony Camargo]
    #24979934 - 02/10/18 12:05 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tony Camargo said:
People take this shit seriously so stop posting nonsense plus NOONE likes a smartass so keep your opinion to yourself!!





:oldthread:


--------------------
Song Of Healing
:super: Updated Pf Tek Guide :super:
Ziran's Teks
AMU Q&A Thread
The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.


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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: Shotgun Terrarium Raise Humidity, Which Holes? [Re: Ziran]
    #24990418 - 02/13/18 12:59 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Lol. Waking the dead with that angry response there Tony!


--------------------
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”- Dr. Seuss

"Too much of a good thing, can be wonderful!" - Mae West

"If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth




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