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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Why did we go to war?
    #1549798 - 05/15/03 02:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So, Mr Straw, why did we go to war?

* Jack Straw, 21 February 2003: 'Some of these weapons are deployable within 45 minutes of an order to use them'

* Jack Straw, 14 May 2003: Asked of the need to find weapons of mass destruction... 'It's not crucial'

By Ben Russell, Political Correspondent
15 May 2003


The legal and political basis for the war in Iraq was thrown into doubt yesterday when Jack Straw declared that uncovering Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction was "not crucially important".

The Foreign Secretary's comments added to the confusion over the capacity of the former Iraqi leader to unleash chemical or biological weapons, which in the weeks before the Allied invasion had been declared an imminent threat to Britain and the West.

Mr Straw was accused of rewriting history after he appeared to undermine the Government's confident claim that Saddam held up to 10,000 litres of anthrax, declaring: "Ten thousand litres is one third of one petrol tanker. Whether or not we are able to find one third of one petrol tanker in a country twice the size of France remains to be seen."

Asked about Iraq's arsenal on BBC Radio 4, he said only: "I hope there will be further evidence of literal finds." Significantly, Mr Straw used the past tense to describe Iraq's arsenal, saying: "It certainly did exist. There is no question about that, and the Blix report suggested that it still existed."

Challenged on the importance of a fresh weapons find, he said: "It's not crucially important for this reason ... The evidence in respect of Iraq was so strong that the Security Council on the 8th of November said unanimously that Iraq's proliferation and possession of the weapons of mass destruction and unlawful missile systems, as well as its defiance of the United Nations, pose ? and I quote ? 'a threat to international peace and security'."

Peter Kilfoyle, a former defence minister, said: "Jack Straw is trying to reinvent history. All these claims about WMD are built on sand. If they do not find these weapons, it takes away the only conceivable justification for conducting this war.

"It shows the real reasons for this war: the superpower flexing its muscles and looking after resources, in this case petroleum."

Geoff Hoon, the Secretary of State for Defence, insisted yesterday that the existence of weapons of mass destruction was "the sole justification" for war and confidently predicted that such weapons would eventually be found, pointing to finds of biological protection suits and a vehicle thought to be a mobile biological weapons laboratory.

But Mr Straw's comments were the latest in a series of shifting statements from cabinet ministers about the whereabouts of Saddam's weaponry, the alleged threat from which provided the legal and political justification for the war.

They were in sharp contrast to the Foreign Secretary's speech to the Royal Institute of International Affairs in February when he declared that some of Saddam's chemical or biological weapons could be deployed "within 45 minutes".

Since then the Foreign Office has, slowly and subtly, changed its rhetoric. While Mr Blair and Mr Hoon continue to exude confidence about the prospects of finding a "smoking gun" in Iraq, Mr Straw has quietly raised the prospect of a different scenario.

He first raised doubts over Iraq's weapons of mass destruction last month when he told MPs not that weapons existed now and would be found, but that "Iraq had illegal possessions of mass destruction and had them recently".

MPs and watching journalists were left with the impression, unchallenged by senior Foreign Office officials, that Britain was no longer completely confident that the elusive weapons would ever be found.

The Foreign Office has stressed that war was amply justified by Iraq's failure to account for weapons holdings dating from after the 1991 Gulf War, detailed in reports by the UN chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix.

Ministers, including Ruth Kelly, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, and the Foreign Office minister Mike O'Brien, have used the analogy of the conflict in Northern Ireland to justify the change, arguing that years of searching have failed to uncover the IRA's weapons dumps.

On Tuesday, John Reid, the Leader of the Commons, said he was not surprised that Iraqi weapons had not yet been found.

Mr Straw argued yesterday that the discovery of mass graves at the site of ancient Babylon provided a moral justification for the war.

"You see these pictures in newspapers about the discovery of 15,000 or so mass graves," he said. "Anybody who had any doubt about the rightness of our actions should just draw to their own attention the venality of the Saddam regime, which thankfully has now been removed."

But the Foreign Secretary's comments raised deep concerns in the ranks of Labour MPs already unhappy with the decision to take Britain to war. Doug Henderson, a former armed services minister, and a leading opponent of the war, said: "I think it's pretty essential if any legitimacy is to be maintained that the reason for embarking on this process is proven. If it's not, people will ask what are the motives for war."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=406341


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Registered: 04/23/00
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1552418 - 05/15/03 09:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, an entire nation just got fucking lied to and nobody is making a fuss. So much for liberal news media coming in to save us.


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Anonymous

Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1552940 - 05/16/03 01:39 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure if the quote is right but...

"If you're not enraged you're not paying attention."


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Offlinemycophat
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Registered: 03/21/03
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: ]
    #1553465 - 05/16/03 08:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Did anyone else see the press conference where Bush gave his speech and at the very end of it he slipped up and said..."Thank you and I bless you"...Uhh...didnt he mean..."thank you and god bless you" Bush either thinks he IS God or better than the man himself. And personaly I would like to see a psycological exam done on our Pres. cause I think he is crazier than a bedbug.


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InvisibleEdame
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Posts: 1,270
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1553920 - 05/16/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wow, an entire nation just got fucking lied to and nobody is making a fuss. So much for liberal news media coming in to save us.




People are making a fuss (at least here in the UK), the Labour party is divided all over the place at the moment. There are plenty of Labour MP's openly questioning this, and the local election results also suggest that the voting public aren't too happy either.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: Edame]
    #1553957 - 05/16/03 02:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"Mr Straw argued yesterday that the discovery of mass graves at the site of ancient Babylon provided a moral justification for the war."

Moral justification is subjective to every individual, and cannot be used as an excuse for war.  That line makes me sick! :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1553961 - 05/16/03 02:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

But not as much as: " Bush gave his speech and at the very end of it he slipped up and said..."Thank you and I bless you"...Uhh...didnt he mean..."thank you and god bless you"

I think he actually MEANT "i bless you".... :smirk:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1554649 - 05/16/03 06:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

To show the world what happens when they let terrorists operate with impunity in their country. We'll stand for a lot of shit but if you push us too far we can really make life a bitch for anyone who crosses us.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1554653 - 05/16/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians dead...yeah that's a real bitch alright


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Posts: 3,392
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1554657 - 05/16/03 06:59 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

To show the world what happens when you let greed and deception operate with impunity in thier country.  We're really fucked up over here, but as long as we name an enemy and keep our war machine at the top of the pile no one will  really notice the erosion of freedom. :smirk:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1554757 - 05/16/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Where were you in my corporate personhood thread? There is your greed. Why didn't you speak up then? Go read up on corporate personhood and legal fodder.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Anonymous

Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1555086 - 05/16/03 11:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

That corporate personhood thread was great!


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Offlinetrev
comming out of retirement
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Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: ]
    #1555704 - 05/17/03 04:52 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I hate our leaders its always been a dream of mine to travel the world now there has been bomb blasts against westerners in saudi, bali, malasia, now morocco,
Western countrys have been able to travel into space build amazing/unbeleivable structures yet we have not been able to use our vast weath of rescources to make us secure via peacefull means. We have a moral highground that is founded on the very corruption deception and exploitation we use to justify our international actions.


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Anonymous #14
[quote]There are billions of people on this planet. The world does not revolve around the united states, moron. I hope terrorists crash their collective cocks into your asshole. [/quote]


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Why did we go to war? [Re: trev]
    #1555712 - 05/17/03 05:18 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I wish al-queda were willing and determind to get to the politicians and corporate bosses. As long as it's ordinary people dying Shrub and the oil men will just continue warring and plundering to their hearts content.

While ever it's someone else's kids dying they won't think twice - if it was their own maybe they would.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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