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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15485229 - 12/08/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
The Mariners still have King Felix and Michael Pineda and...stuff.




and still finish LAST in overall runs scored for the 3rd fucking year in a row :facepalm:


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15485240 - 12/08/11 11:11 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Dustin Ackley is a valuable chip as well. But the fact that he has a chance to be their best offensive player next year is a really bad sign. At least Oakland kind of sucks too. The Mariners have a pretty middling farm system, but at least they have a competent GM as far as I can tell. They should be able to compete in the next 5 years one way or another. At least they're not the Astros. You'll always have that. The Astros are destined to suck for the next decade.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


Edited by robbyberto (12/08/11 11:14 AM)

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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15485252 - 12/08/11 11:14 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

yea but now us and oakland are like the fuckin joke of the league compared to Texas and LA. It's going to be a big fight between texas and LA this year, seattle and oakland will be fighting for 3rd...

maybe in 2013 when the astros come to the AL west, our 3rd place finish won't feel as bad :facepalm:

even if the mariners manage to sign prince fielder, we're still going to get ass rammed by texas and LA>

still...we NEED fielder. We desperately need some excitement around this fuckin city. Rejuvenate the fans!


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15485275 - 12/08/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think getting Fielder would be a wise move. He'll eat up too much money (get it). Adding Fielder takes their offense from utterly and completely incompetent to only terribly incompetent. He just won't help them win the division or wild card. They'd be better off spending big in the draft and developing some high impact talent to play with Ackley and Pindea before they get too expensive.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15485296 - 12/08/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
I don't think getting Fielder would be a wise move. He'll eat up too much money (get it). Adding Fielder takes their offense from utterly and completely incompetent to only terribly incompetent. He just won't help them win the division or wild card. They'd be better off spending big in the draft and developing some high impact talent to play with Ackley and Pindea before they get too expensive.




I don't think fielder will give us any kind of shot at the playoffs, but that isn't the point. Fielder will draw big crowds, and we desperately need more fans at our games. Last season I went to the game where we had the lowest attendance in mariner history, something like 10,000 people. It was pathetic.

The problem with the mariners is that we NEVER sign big bats. Or when we do, (adrian beltre) they are only shadows of their former selves. Fielder is the type of power hitter that the M's need. Someone who can smash the ball in Safeco's power alley (right field).

I think Ackley and Pineda are going to be secured for multiple years while they're still young at a relatively cheap price. Felix is on board for the long haul...we need a bat. A proven bat.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15485363 - 12/08/11 11:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You have a point that he could bring more fans to the games. Still, I have a hard time seeing the increased ticket sales making it a worthwhile investment. There is certainly value to showing your fans you're not throwing in the towel. I have to disagree on Beltre. I believe he was worth his contract. Safeco KILLED Beltre's offensive numbers. He still played off the charts defense and hit well on the road. There are valid arguments to be made for both sides of both points of contention.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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InvisibleshLong
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15485479 - 12/08/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

EVERYBODY STOP


HOLD THE PHONES


I guess Ive been following football a little too closely this year.


The MIAMI Marlins? :wtf:  ( i know thats where they're from anyhow...but dang)

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InvisibleshLong
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: shLong]
    #15485488 - 12/08/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Denver Rockies

Eden Prairie Vikings

Charlotte Panthers

theres a trend in the works, I can feel it

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: shLong]
    #15485491 - 12/08/11 12:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yes. A new stadium was built for them in Miami.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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InvisibleshLong
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15485496 - 12/08/11 12:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

dang...Im slackin up here in the great white north

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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: shLong]
    #15485707 - 12/08/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shLong said:
dang...Im slackin up here in the great white north




lol ya that's been in the works for a long time now.


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Offlinecountchocula420
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15485722 - 12/08/11 12:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: countchocula420]
    #15485733 - 12/08/11 12:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

there's a new boss in LA

his name is Poo Holes


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15487055 - 12/08/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anthony said:
you just post the stats that don't matter. HR's? Rose wasn't a HR hitter. Would you look at a player like Ichiro and be like "nah..he wasn't that good, he only hit 95 career HR's"??




Bullshit.  I posted BA, On base, Slugging and On base plus Slugging.  Also his incredibly damaging sb/cs ratio.  Then we consider that for most of his career he played corner positions. 
Quote:



No, so don't even act like HRs are a factor when determining what type of player Pete Rose was. He had 4,256 hits. Are you joking? That alone should put ANY player in the hall, disregarding all of their other stats. You don't get that many hits by accident.




I know what kind of player Rose was.  A compiler with limited defensive ability who made stupid decisions on the base paths.  That other guy who has so many more HRs than Lil Pete?  Also not considered a HR hitter.  He just isn't the complete Judy that Rose was.  And he plays middle infield.
Quote:



Also I don't know what kind of baseball you've been watching where 98 runs, 194 hits, 7 HRs, and 60 RBI isn't a spectacular season. Get real dude




Your definition of spectacular and mine clearly aren't even close.


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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15487115 - 12/08/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

well then you must not know anything about the sport :shrug:

because batting over .300 is amazing. Especially to play for 24 years and STILL bat above .300

I won't bother listing the incredible HOF players who batted under .300 for their careers, but there are MANY.

his OBP is very good. Ichiros career OBP is lower than Pete Roses, no argument that Ichiro is a HOF player, is there?

Pete Rose wasn't a slugger, so of course his slugging % is going to be (relatively) low.

So, the fact that you try to say he had a bad career batting average and on base percentage is downright laughable.

OK I'll give you the fact that he wasn't a stellar base stealer. OMG HE GOT CAUGHT STEALING! At least he was trying to advance into scoring position. That shows me he had ambition, he tried his hardest, he played his fuckin heart out. That much is clear when you watch his older games.

Please tell me who the other player is you are averaging Roses' stats against. I'm very curious, but I imagine this person is a HOFer?



118 runs  206 hits  16 HRs  80 RBI

that's an MVP type season


just for reference, the only players in 2011 who had 200+ hits, 100+ runs scored and 80+ RBIs were:
Adrian Gonzalez
Jacoby Ellsbury
Melky Cabrera


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Edited by Anthony (12/08/11 05:12 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15487587 - 12/08/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anthony said:
well then you must not know anything about the sport :shrug:

because batting over .300 is amazing. Especially to play for 24 years and STILL bat above .300

I won't bother listing the incredible HOF players who batted under .300 for their careers, but there are MANY.




Of course there are.  Hell, Rabbit Maranville is in.  That doesn't mean every soso judy compiler deserves to be.  And as far as modern players go those guys hit for serious power (Yes, Virginia, it matters.  A lot) or were awesome defensive players at important positions. 
Quote:



his OBP is very good. Ichiros career OBP is lower than Pete Roses, no argument that Ichiro is a HOF player, is there?




His OBP is NOT particularly good.  Nick Swisher hit that this year.  With power.  Somebody who averages Nick Swisher's 2011 for 20+ years does not deserve the hall.
Quote:



Pete Rose wasn't a slugger, so of course his slugging % is going to be (relatively) low.




Yes.  I pointed out that he wasn't a slugger.  THAT WAS MY POINT!  In case you didn't know it hitting for power is extremely important in baseball. Extremely.
Quote:



So, the fact that you try to say he had a bad career batting average and on base percentage is downright laughable.




Did I say those were bad?  No I did not.  I said they were nowhere near enough to compensate for his utter lack of power, defensive uselessness and idiotic baserunning
Quote:



OK I'll give you the fact that he wasn't a stellar base stealer. OMG HE GOT CAUGHT STEALING! At least he was trying to advance into scoring position. That shows me he had ambition, he tried his hardest, he played his fuckin heart out. That much is clear when you watch his older games.




He tried hard so he deserves a gold star.  HOF?  If it wasn't for the gambling they would have given ot to him.  Mistakenly, like Puckett, in my opinion.
Quote:



Please tell me who the other player is you are averaging Roses' stats against. I'm very curious, but I imagine this person is a HOFer?




Not yet but he will be.
Quote:





118 runs  206 hits  16 HRs  80 RBI

that's an MVP type season


just for reference, the only players in 2011 who had 200+ hits, 100+ runs scored and 80+ RBIs were:
Adrian Gonzalez
Jacoby Ellsbury
Melky Cabrera





And Derek Jeter has averaged that over 162 game projections for his career, which were the same stats I used for Rose.  14 of his 17 years he has gone 148 or more.  Plus playing SS.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15487628 - 12/08/11 06:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

162 game average for Rose PA: 721 AB: 639 R: 98 H:194 2B:34 3B: 6 HR: 7 RBI: 60 SB:9 CS:7 BB:71 K:52 BA: .303 OBP: 375 SLG:.409

And he did something close to that for most of the 24 seasons in which he played. That is a tremendous amount of very good production. There is no comparison between Rose's and Jeter's defense. Rose was probably an average defensive player; Jeter is and was a miserable defensive player.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15488041 - 12/08/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
162 game average for Rose PA: 721 AB: 639 R: 98 H:194 2B:34 3B: 6 HR: 7 RBI: 60 SB:9 CS:7 BB:71 K:52 BA: .303 OBP: 375 SLG:.409

And he did something close to that for most of the 24 seasons in which he played. That is a tremendous amount of very good production. There is no comparison between Rose's and Jeter's defense. Rose was probably an average defensive player; Jeter is and was a miserable defensive player.





7 RBIs?  Jeter plays SS.  Miserable?  Hardly.  Average at worst.  Rose?  He started at 2nd and they quickly realized they better put him somewhere.  Just the fact that Jeter plays middle infield makes him a vastly more valuable fielder than Rose.

I know you're a big OPS guy.  Look at Rose's.  It is shit.  If you factor in the SB/CS stats that is lowered by 11 points to .773.  Unfortunately there is no way to count the other idiotic baserunning blunders that this hideous ratio would tend to indicate.   

He wasn't that fucking good.  His major talent was showing up for work.  But his production from any of the corner spots he occupied was, on a year to year basis, probably marginally better than average.

(These numbers do not include my SB/CS adjustment.)

OPS stats for 1st basemen in 2011,  he'd be 15th

OPS stats for 3rd basemen in 2011,  he'd be 8th

OPS stats for left fielders in 2011,  he'd be 9th

OPS stats for right fielders in 2011,  he'd be 16th

He was Chauncey Gardner.  He was just there.


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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15490511 - 12/09/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Derek Jeter is one of the greatest players of all time...

I'm done arguing zappa, because I know that most baseball fans agree with me. Your arguments are mediocre at best, and you seem to be so stubborn that you will ignore some of pete's amazing accomplishments and instead focus on his stealing % whatever brah

20 seasons of Swishers 2011 stats:

BA: .260
Hits: 2740
Runs: 1620
RBI: 1700
HR: 460
2B:600

you are smoking crack if you don't think he'd be in the HOF.

There are plenty of players way worse than Rose who are currently in the Hall. He deserves to be there too.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15490984 - 12/09/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

stewert gone, street gone, ianetta gone. Gettin rid of the schmucks. Good move


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