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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15480238 - 12/07/11 12:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Pete Rose will never get in while alive.  He broke the single cardinal rule and signed an agreement.  The steroid guys who cheated were cheating to win.  He put himself in a position to cheat to lose.  BIG difference.


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OfflineAnthony
M1 A1


Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3,725
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15480250 - 12/07/11 01:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pete Rose will never get in while alive.  He broke the single cardinal rule and signed an agreement.  The steroid guys who cheated were cheating to win.  He put himself in a position to cheat to lose.  BIG difference.




you do realize that Pete Rose bet FOR his team to win, right?


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InvisibleshLong
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Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 25,330
Loc: 'sconsin Flag
Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15480263 - 12/07/11 01:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

if it's shown he placed even 1 bet against the Reds, then yes, he should be banned. But betting for your own team to win, I dont see an issue with that.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15480276 - 12/07/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anthony said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Pete Rose will never get in while alive.  He broke the single cardinal rule and signed an agreement.  The steroid guys who cheated were cheating to win.  He put himself in a position to cheat to lose.  BIG difference.




you do realize that Pete Rose bet FOR his team to win, right?




How do you know that?  What if he had money on game 1 but not on game 2 and burned his relievers out in game 1?  He signed the agreement.


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InvisibleshLong
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15480283 - 12/07/11 01:11 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:ifyoucanawe: that's also a valid point

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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: shLong]
    #15480326 - 12/07/11 01:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't care.

I think your skills as a player should determine whether or not you make it into the hall.

Pete Rose was one of the most amazing players to ever step foot on a baseball field.
Career:
.303 BA
4256 Hits
2165 Runs
1314 RBIs

No one will ever break his hits record imo. I just don't think it can be done. Pete Rose SHOULD be in the Hall, and I'd be hard pressed to find a baseball fan who disagrees.

He said "yea, my team is the shit. I bet you $10,000 we win tonight" and got banned for it. That's fucking retarded.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15480545 - 12/07/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anthony said:
I don't care.

I think your skills as a player should determine whether or not you make it into the hall.

Pete Rose was one of the most amazing players to ever step foot on a baseball field.
Career:
.303 BA
4256 Hits
2165 Runs
1314 RBIs

No one will ever break his hits record imo. I just don't think it can be done. Pete Rose SHOULD be in the Hall, and I'd be hard pressed to find a baseball fan who disagrees.

He said "yea, my team is the shit. I bet you $10,000 we win tonight" and got banned for it. That's fucking retarded.



Baseball has one unforgivable sin.  Gambling on baseball.  Ever hear of the Black Sox?  Did you not read my post about playing for one game and not another?  Is that not a conflict?

I was paying attention to baseball when Rose was a player.  He was not great.  Good for many years but never great.  He is the epitome of a compiler.  Never great but around forever.  Don't be so sure his hits record will never be eclipsed.  What if Ichiro had started in MLB and not Japan?

Finally, he signed the agreement.  He is banned.  That's it.  Maybe they'll do it after he's dead.


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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15480613 - 12/07/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Black Sox (8 players) intentionally lost the 1919 world series.

Pete Rose bet that his team was going to WIN! IMO that is infinitely different.

As a manager, what can you do that you aren't already doing to help your team win? It's not like him betting on his team to win influenced the outcome of any games. Maybe it made him want to win more...but from a managerial standpoint, you can WANT all you want...but unless your players perform, you aren't going to win.

IMO what Pete Rose did is harmless and he should be acknowledged for the outstanding player he was. Easily the best switch hitter to ever play the game.


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Edited by Anthony (12/07/11 02:20 PM)

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InvisibleshLong
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15480643 - 12/07/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Tony, he's saying that its possible to burn out pitching in 1 game (which he may not do otherwise) in order to win, therefore perhaps worsening their teams chances in the following game.

I agree with you though, I think Rose should be forgiven

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OfflineAnthony
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Registered: 06/16/11
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: shLong]
    #15480658 - 12/07/11 02:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shLong said:
Tony, he's saying that its possible to burn out pitching in 1 game (which he may not do otherwise) in order to win, therefore perhaps worsening their teams chances in the following game.

I agree with you though, I think Rose should be forgiven




the fact of the matter is that managers do things like burn relievers all the time in an attempt to win. It's not like the only reason Rose was trying was because he had money on the games...I just don't think it is justified. I really don't....

if he was throwing games intentionally, which is already pretty fucking tough unless you have player support, then I agree he should be hung.

Pete is the man. :thumbup:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15480790 - 12/07/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The point is this:

Did Rose weight the outcome of one game more than another (or two or three) because he had money on that one game?  And how the fuck do you know he always bet on his team to win?  You do not.

Also, he wasn't that good.  Punch and Judy hitter with no defensive skills and almost as many caught stealing (149) as steals (198).


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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15480850 - 12/07/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Zappa you gotta be smoking crack.

Pete Rose is the best switch hitter to ever play.

Most career runs by a switch hitter – 2,165
Most career doubles by a switch hitter – 746, he is also 2nd all time doubles leader
Most career walks by a switch hitter – 1,566
Most career total bases by a switch hitter – 5,752

All time MLB hits leader, 4,256

9 Seasons w/ 200+ hits
10 Season w/ 100+ runs

17-time All Star

had a 44 game hitting streak, 3rd all time...

whatever you say about pete rose, it doesn't matter, because the stats don't lie.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15480964 - 12/07/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You're right.  The stats don't lie.  He wasn't that good. 

BA .303  On base .375 Slugging .409 OPS .784  HRs 160.  The aforementioned harmful steals to caught stealing ratio.

Compare:

BA .313  On Base .383  Slugging .449  OPS  .832  HRs 240  SB/CS  339/91

162 game averages

Rose:

98 runs  194 hits  7 HRs  60 RBI

Other guy:

118 runs  206 hits  16 HRs  80 RBI

Other guy plays SS.  Rose?  Mostly corner outfielder or corner infielder.


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OfflineAnthony
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Registered: 06/16/11
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: zappaisgod]
    #15481021 - 12/07/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

you just post the stats that don't matter. HR's? Rose wasn't a HR hitter. Would you look at a player like Ichiro and be like "nah..he wasn't that good, he only hit 95 career HR's"??

No, so don't even act like HRs are a factor when determining what type of player Pete Rose was. He had 4,256 hits. Are you joking? That alone should put ANY player in the hall, disregarding all of their other stats. You don't get that many hits by accident.

Also I don't know what kind of baseball you've been watching where 98 runs, 194 hits, 7 HRs, and 60 RBI isn't a spectacular season. Get real dude


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InvisibleshLong
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Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 25,330
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15484478 - 12/08/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Is that the KGjr broken wrist play in your avatar, Anthony?

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: shLong]
    #15484795 - 12/08/11 08:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Albert Pujols, Angels Agree To 10-Year, $250M+ Contract

Yeah but taxes will just eat that up.

Also,

Japan’s Darvish says he plans to head to majors. I think he could be better than 95-96 Nomo.

Edited by robbyberto (12/08/11 09:08 AM)

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OfflineAnthony
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15485195 - 12/08/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
Albert Pujols, Angels Agree To 10-Year, $250M+ Contract

Yeah but taxes will just eat that up.

Also,

Japan’s Darvish says he plans to head to majors. I think he could be better than 95-96 Nomo.




FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKK

the mariners are gonna be FUCKED this year :facepalm:

the angels are about to rape the AL West

@ ShLong

yup, that's the one
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=3850092&topic_id=10728310


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15485204 - 12/08/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Angels just inked C.J. Wilson as well. 5 years/ 75 million. I predict that the Rangers will sign Prince Fielder today.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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OfflineAnthony
M1 A1


Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3,725
Loc: earth
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: robbyberto]
    #15485208 - 12/08/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I swear to god if that happens I am committing suicide


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Baseball Talk 2011 [Re: Anthony]
    #15485218 - 12/08/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Mariners still have King Felix and Michael Pineda and...stuff.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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