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OfflineMattyBong
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Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN]
    #15472270 - 12/05/11 10:48 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Female Ecstasy users show long-lasting signs of toxicity in their brains, an imaging study shows.

The neurotransmitter serotonin, a critical signaling molecule, has roles in regulating mood, appetite, sleep, learning and memory.

In Monday's issue of the Archives of General Psychiatry, U.S. researchers used PET scans to look at levels of certain serotonin receptors in different regions of the brain in 15 women who had used Ecstasy compared with 10 who never taken it.

The study is important, said study author Dr. Ronald Cowan, a psychiatry professor at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, because the drug is now being tested as a treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety associated with cancer.

"Our studies suggest that if you use Ecstasy recreationally, the more you use, the more brain changes you get,” Cowan said. Investigators will need to know the dose at which Ecstasy becomes toxic before it is used as a treatment, the study’s authors cautioned.

In the study, they found Ecstasy use produces chronic serotonin neurotoxicity in humans.

Since previous studies suggest that the use of birth control, estrogen level and age affect serotonin receptors, the researchers took those factors were taken into consideration in the analysis. But the authors acknowledged they may not have fully accounted for those variables.

"Given the broad role that serotonin plays in human brain function, the possibility for therapeutic MDMA use, and the widespread recreational popularity of this drug, our results have critical implications for human MDMA users," the investigators concluded.

To be eligible for the study, Ecstasy users couldn't take it in the nine days before the imaging study. When hair samples were analyzed to test for drug use, one woman was excluded from the study because of a positive cocaine result.

Participants were aged 18 to 25.

The study focused on healthy women and the findings may not apply to men or those with anxiety or depression, the researchers said.

The research was funded by the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse, the U.S. National Institute of Mental Health, and the U.S. National Center for Research Resources.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/12/05/ecstasy-brain-serotonin.html


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---Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions---

--- A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?---

---This sentence is false---

---You met me at a very strange time in my life---

---Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one---

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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: MattyBong]
    #15472430 - 12/05/11 11:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

see they are making decisions on whether to use MDMA for scientific or theraputic purposes based on data collected from users of STREET ecstasy. thats not right. street ecstasy is a concoction of chemicals.

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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: MattyBong]
    #15472439 - 12/05/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

and we know what we've known for years. abuse of some stuff will fry ya. ive seen it in people


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We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #15472463 - 12/05/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

agreed. You play too much you pay too much.


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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”- Dr. Seuss

"Too much of a good thing, can be wonderful!" - Mae West

"If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth




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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Rewindicus]
    #15472489 - 12/05/11 11:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

what i will bring up is this.
you do come back, it just takes time with some people.
i have a buddy who used to roll a whole bunch and got memory issues for a while, but he finally seems on track.
now i won't say i won't roll again, but its been over 3 years. its very random anymore when it happens. i find myself just drinking ( which is bad too) and smoking the good herb weed mostly anymore. but once every blue moon i do trip.
repeated abuse of MDMA or even some of the things i do can lead to issues.
my body my temple


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We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #15472512 - 12/05/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

totally but its just ironic that alot of the people that swear up an down that rolls an drying your brain out all the time has no long term issues are usually the ones that behind their backs are referred to as the Etards/Burnouts/Fryheads.

from the beginning when i was 16 an had my first roll i never said i would let it get out of control because i had seen from my peers what it was doin to them when they abused it. nowadays alot of those same friends are on anti-depressants fucking 23/24/25 year olds that honestly have nothing to be depressed about (good jobs/homelifes/relationships ect) on meds! its kinda crazy.

please no flaming i realize alot of people on this site are on all kinds of meds an you got your own reasons for being on em but these kids really dont have anything to be depressed about and i know them well enough to say that. I think a large part of it us due to 8+ years of multiple weekly uses of drugs. but im no doctor of course just a theory.  :shrug:


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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”- Dr. Seuss

"Too much of a good thing, can be wonderful!" - Mae West

"If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth




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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Rewindicus]
    #15472521 - 12/05/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

possibly. ive burned myself out on stuff a couple times. but i do come back.
i try not to roll anymore cause it usualy turns into a week or drugs, sex and drinking.
....and something goes bad in life and your jobless or broke or something. oh well.
sometimes i worry what a dentist will say if he sees my teeth. he'll surely see ive grinded them a bunch


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We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #15472546 - 12/05/11 11:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

dude i saw this chick grind her teeth down SO bad her first time rolling the next morning she was in a TON of pain and had def done permanent damage she had to her all her teeth capped because eating and drinking anything was just too painful.


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“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”- Dr. Seuss

"Too much of a good thing, can be wonderful!" - Mae West

"If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth




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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Rewindicus]
    #15472579 - 12/06/11 12:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"Alcohol users' brains show toxic effects"


:lolsy:


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:wizard::deemsters:

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Invisible5-HT2A
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: NWlight]
    #15472645 - 12/06/11 12:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This study sort of tells you nothing. It shows differences in brain scans but gives no information on how that translates to performance/well-being. It also examined a very small number of women.

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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #15472703 - 12/06/11 12:36 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i'm sure heavy use is certainly not good for you(as is the case with most drugs(or all drugs?)

but

Quote:

in different regions of the brain in 15 women who had used Ecstasy compared with 10 who never taken it.




that's way too small of a sample size to get anything from

Quote:


"Given the broad role that serotonin plays in human brain function, the possibility for therapeutic MDMA use, and the widespread recreational popularity of this drug, our results have critical implications for human MDMA users," the investigators concluded.




i highly doubt using it once in a while affects you more than getting drunk every once in a while.

Quote:


The research was funded by the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse, the U.S. National Institute of Mental Health, and the U.S. National Center for Research Resources.




as in the same government that wants to continue the war on drugs, specifically pot. yea no bias there  :rolleyes:


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Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

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Offlinewithoutawire
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: bigmike7104]
    #15472723 - 12/06/11 12:40 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It passed FDA stage I and II trials so this article means shit.


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: withoutawire]
    #15472734 - 12/06/11 12:43 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

^ /thread


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:wizard::deemsters:

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: bigmike7104] * 1
    #15472752 - 12/06/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i think a lot of people downplay the negatives that can result from overuse of ecstasy.... i used to do it too.

studies like this should be welcomed in the drug using community if anything so you (we) can all can be more informed about possible problems arising from the overuse of certain substances and alter the way we use those drugs accordingly.

it would be a lot cooler to have a reason to limit your use ahead of time as opposed to doing what i did last summer and saying "durrhurr government puts out only lies about drugs, nothing bad will happen if i eat a bunch of ecstasy on a regular basis" and finding out the hard way that ecstasy most definitely fucks up your brain if you do it too much.


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Offlinewithoutawire
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15472767 - 12/06/11 12:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Oh I don't doubt MDMA has its side effects, but


Quote:

In the study, they found Ecstasy use produces chronic serotonin neurotoxicity in humans.






This ruins the legitimacy of the article, when it should say. "Chronic ecstasy use leads to serotonin neurotoxicity". Otherwise it sounds like doing ecstasy leads to severe issues, when clearly that's only the case in the more extreme circumstances. This article is an attempt to ruin the legitimacy of MDMA in psychotherapy by wording what I quoted the way it was written. That is what pisses me off, and has me all GRRR. I do know that it causes damage if abused to an extent and anyone who doesn't believe that is just kidding themselves.

The brain has the ability to recover extremely well. MDMA is far less neurotoxic that methamphetamine and I see people daily with years and years of meth abuse who are coming back to normal and functioning at basically the same capacity.


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15472784 - 12/06/11 12:55 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I think people love the feeling of drugs a lot, so they tend to dismiss data that says their habits are bad for them.  Especially with ecstasy there is a lot of misinformation (partly because of genuine lack of science).

But in this case Jackson, I still think they didn't prove anything new using methods that were up-to-par.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: withoutawire]
    #15472812 - 12/06/11 01:02 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

even if the aim of the research is to make other mdma-related research seem less worthwhile and reasonable, they may still have some good data.

you dont overlook good data just because someone isn't on your side about a particular subject.


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Offlinewithoutawire
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15472839 - 12/06/11 01:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Didn't I just say MDMA causes neurotoxicity? The way the article is worded is extremely poor and might not even reflect the data, which I didn't even say anything about.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: withoutawire]
    #15472875 - 12/06/11 01:20 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

well the article isnt going to actually do anything when you get down to it, so the wording of it doesnt matter. the people who would use the data mentioned in the article would get everything they need to know from the paper written by the researchers who did the study, not article x written by joe schmoe for morning newspaper version 4.235b.

its best if you just look at it for what it actually is as opposed to what the authors opinion is, as with most other things. :tongue:


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: withoutawire]
    #15472883 - 12/06/11 01:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Article is stupid. 15 users of "ecstasy" who in reality may have easily been taking meth/piperazines/cathinones etc. and probably doing a lot of other drugs too. Yes, MDMA is neurotoxic, but this study is still flawed.

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Offlinemenino


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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: chopstick]
    #15473191 - 12/06/11 05:22 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What about the toxic substance h2o? 

Water intoxication is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by over-consumption of water.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill

It should be prohibited an put on schedule 1 to protect our children.

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Offlinedarkczar
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: chopstick]
    #15473289 - 12/06/11 06:27 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Article is stupid. 15 users of "ecstasy" who in reality may have easily been taking meth/piperazines/cathinones etc. and probably doing a lot of other drugs too. Yes, MDMA is neurotoxic, but this study is still flawed.




My sentiments exactly, Chopstick.  There was an article recently about new higher strength ecstacy pills that are around.  There was a reference to analysis of large numbers of pills.  None of them were pure ecstacy.  Some of them had no ecstacy at all.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: withoutawire]
    #15473374 - 12/06/11 07:06 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

withoutawire said:
Oh I don't doubt MDMA has its side effects, but


Quote:

In the study, they found Ecstasy use produces chronic serotonin neurotoxicity in humans.






This ruins the legitimacy of the article, when it should say. "Chronic ecstasy use leads to serotonin neurotoxicity". Otherwise it sounds like doing ecstasy leads to severe issues, when clearly that's only the case in the more extreme circumstances. This article is an attempt to ruin the legitimacy of MDMA in psychotherapy by wording what I quoted the way it was written. That is what pisses me off, and has me all GRRR. I do know that it causes damage if abused to an extent and anyone who doesn't believe that is just kidding themselves.

The brain has the ability to recover extremely well. MDMA is far less neurotoxic that methamphetamine and I see people daily with years and years of meth abuse who are coming back to normal and functioning at basically the same capacity.




Though that is better, it still implies a causal relationship. A better phrase would be,

Quote:

Chronic esctacy use has been associated with serotonin neuotoxicity.




This still leaves room open for other variables.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15473887 - 12/06/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
it would be a lot cooler to have a reason to limit your use ahead of time as opposed to doing what i did last summer and saying "durrhurr government puts out only lies about drugs, nothing bad will happen if i eat a bunch of ecstasy on a regular basis" and finding out the hard way that ecstasy most definitely fucks up your brain if you do it too much.




Could I ask what specifically you noticed change?  You just talking the typically depression-like symptoms after a binge or something more serious/long lasting/debilitating?


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.

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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15473932 - 12/06/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
you dont overlook good data just because someone isn't on your side about a particular subject.




This is not "good data". I agree, we have to do honest research about those substances and accept it, if it is unbiased.
However, following anything from a sample size of 25 people is scientific bullshit.


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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
    #15473992 - 12/06/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i deffinitly notice depression for a few days afterwards. that feeling of your serotonin being burned out.
with prolonged abuse ive seen memory issues arise.
its a bummer. i will never forget some of those memories and my bud wont even remember


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1] * 3
    #15474042 - 12/06/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
it would be a lot cooler to have a reason to limit your use ahead of time as opposed to doing what i did last summer and saying "durrhurr government puts out only lies about drugs, nothing bad will happen if i eat a bunch of ecstasy on a regular basis" and finding out the hard way that ecstasy most definitely fucks up your brain if you do it too much.




Could I ask what specifically you noticed change?  You just talking the typically depression-like symptoms after a binge or something more serious/long lasting/debilitating?




its a variety of things, all of which arent apparent in my day to day life. im not sure if the symptoms still persist or not, because i stopped using ecstasy after i put 2 and 2 together in my brain and realized what was happening; and the symptoms only show their ugly head after i have done ecstasy.

the symptoms that i ONLY get from ecstasy are a variety of things. while rolling i get lightheaded very very easily. if i stand up suddenly i am at high risk of passing out. my vision blacks out completely if i stand up at all and i have to lean against a wall until my vision comes back and the lightheadedness goes away.

that symptom also shows the day after doing ecstasy, and can lasts the whole day or only a few hours after a wake up. by this i mean the lightheadedness and the blacking out of my vision will occur whenever i stand up after doing ecstasy. my vision usually comes back within 10 seconds of standing up but the lightheadedness can persist for a few minutes. but those small portions of time where i am lightheaded and cant see will happen every time i stand up for at least a few hours.

another symptom is a ringing in my ears. like in call of duty when a flash bang grenade goes off. more often than not this comes along with the blacking out of my vision or lightheadedness. the ringing usually is very loud for a few seconds and then winds down into a constant tone which eventually dissipates after a few minutes.

headaches are pretty common as well.

another thing is a recurring bad trip that revolves around memory problems. basically i experience the complete inability to remember things that happened even moments ago. i will forget what im talking about mid sentence. i will forget what i looked at 2 seconds previously. i will forget everything. its like information hits my brain and then just bounces off of it and isnt processed. i get this symptom not only while on ecstasy but also while doing other drugs such as shooms, lsd, or mescaline. its very hard to put into words what makes this trip so horrifying, but it is only something that has happened to me after my recent ecstasy binge and not only that but it transcends individual drugs and is a blanket symptom which will show up randomly even if i take as little as one hit of acid. (so long as i have recently done ecstasy as well)



as i said, i stopped doing ecstasy as soon as i realized that the overuse of ecstasy was what caused these problems, and since then havent experienced them.

its some really serious shit, there is no reason for those things to happen. it was really embarrassing and i kind of hid the fact for a while but ive decided that its dumb to just sweep it under the rug and now i think its worth mentioning.

also, a lot of people get "brain zaps" after overdoing the ecstasy. i never got brain zaps but i talked to a lot of people who got them during my own quest for an explanation to my own symptoms. brain zaps are (from what i hear) the sensation of a shock in the brain and then a few seconds to a minute of the blacking out of the vision and lightheadedness which i also experience, though without the shocking sensation in my head.




everyone can be my guest and make shitty comparisons between mdma toxicity and water toxicity or whatever kind of other stuff you want to do to downplay something which is well known, but i just want you all to know that mdma isnt good for you at all and if youre going to do it you should only do it a few times a year at most, with as much time between rolls as you can possibly wait.

i didnt do that, and now i literally cant roll because i would rather function normally than suffer crippling symptoms the day after i take ecstasy.


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15474122 - 12/06/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy.  I think that responsible use is quite safe.  I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #15474148 - 12/06/11 11:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

and thats exactly what i said, if you read my entire post.

though i wouldnt say "safe" as much as i would say "not a big problem".

its like smoking a few cig's here and there. sure, you might not get cancer, but youre not doing yourself any good either.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15474173 - 12/06/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Damn, that is terrible sounding.  Thanks for the detailed response man.

I'm with you on playing it as safe as can possibly be managed.  I never do it without at least 2 months in between at the very minimum and don't exceed 4 times a year max.

That could be the reason that I've never experienced anything like you're talking about but I've also seen friends of mine do just about the same amount of molly as me and experience some pretty serious seeming brain malfunctions.  Jaw clenched, eyes scary intense-looking and stringing together sentences like "Holy shit, spidiffid combitzer blestipitsy magredinner.."  Start out with a few recognizable words and just turn into some grade A bullshit.  Not even mumble mouth, just taking total nonsense.

Very strange chemical in some respects.  I'm really curious to know what factors play the biggest role in these sort of negative effects occurring.  Obviously dosage, frequency of use and genetic predisposition.  I'm just extremely curious which play the biggest role.  Based on my observations it seems like genetic sensitivity to MDMA is a pretty huge factor and seems to vary greatly between individuals.  My tiny girlfriend was like "Yeah, I mean... I feel good but it's not too intense." off just about the same amount where I had to step outside for a minute and get some air because I was coming up so hard.  And I certainly don't feel overly sensitive to MDMA, if anything, the opposite compared to most people.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.

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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #15474219 - 12/06/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy.  I think that responsible use is quite safe.  I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.




How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.


--------------------
]

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
    #15474221 - 12/06/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
Jaw clenched, eyes scary intense-looking and stringing together sentences like "Holy shit, spidiffid combitzer blestipitsy magredinner.."  Start out with a few recognizable words and just turn into some grade A bullshit.  Not even mumble mouth, just taking total nonsense.




yea, i completely forgot to mention that shit. that only happens when im also tripping though.

tripping + rolling = inability to speak and drastic loss of memory


--------------------


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15474387 - 12/06/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy.  I think that responsible use is quite safe.  I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.




How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.



Me?  I take pure M, I don't take rolls.

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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: pwnasaurus]
    #15474563 - 12/06/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy.  I think that responsible use is quite safe.  I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.




How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.



Me?  I take pure M, I don't take rolls.




Sorry 'bout that. I clicked the wrong quote. My question was directed towards Mr. Samuel L. Jackson. I've not done MDMA, but if I were to it would be only the best of Molly.

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OfflineThe Vapor
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #15476293 - 12/06/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

5-HT2A said:
This study sort of tells you nothing. It shows differences in brain scans but gives no information on how that translates to performance/well-being. It also examined a very small number of women.




An those everyone is different to start with, so their low sample size just made things even more muddy.


--------------------

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15476328 - 12/06/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy.  I think that responsible use is quite safe.  I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.




How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.



Me?  I take pure M, I don't take rolls.




Sorry 'bout that. I clicked the wrong quote. My question was directed towards Mr. Samuel L. Jackson. I've not done MDMA, but if I were to it would be only the best of Molly.





the only stuff ive eaten for the past ~8 months (until i stopped eating it) looked like this.




--------------------


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OfflineAUX
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15476597 - 12/06/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Sassafras does a lot more damage to your brain than MDMA. The pills in the 2nd picture look an awful lot like sassafras to me. Just sayin'.

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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: AUX]
    #15476683 - 12/06/11 07:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:

the only stuff ive eaten for the past ~8 months (until i stopped eating it) looked like this.







Damn, well that sucks to hear about your plight, especially considering the quality of the stuff.  I hope that your symptoms never reappear for your sake.

I don't think I'd do it without at least a Marquis test.


Quote:

AUX said:
Sassafras does a lot more damage to your brain than MDMA. The pills in the 2nd picture look an awful lot like sassafras to me. Just sayin'.




You mean MDA?


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]

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OfflineAUX
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15479569 - 12/07/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I mean MDA. That stuff in particular looks like it was extracted from saffrole oil and around here, we just call that sass.

MDA was big before MDMA and it was fucking people up pretty bad. Then somebody methylated it and it became far less neurotoxic. But today, lots of molly is partially or fully MDA. If you are eating a lot of MDA, you are going to experience a lot more negative effects than if you are eating a lot of MDMA.

Yes, that brown shit is bomb. No, its not "pure molly". Go ahead and eat it if you want but know that you are not eating MDMA.

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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: AUX]
    #15480478 - 12/07/11 01:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know what's in those capsules but I'm 100% sure that other shit is molly.  And (not to be a dick, just for education purposes), you don't extract MDA from safrole oil.  It's simply a precursor.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.

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OfflineAUX
Entheogenist

Registered: 03/12/11
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
    #15482066 - 12/07/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
I don't know what's in those capsules but I'm 100% sure that other shit is molly.




Agreed.

Quote:

Shpongle1 said: And (not to be a dick, just for education purposes), you don't extract MDA from safrole oil.  It's simply a precursor.



Thanks. No offense taken :smile:

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Invisibledigitalemu
Digital Emu

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 302
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Rewindicus]
    #15485040 - 12/08/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rewindicus said:
totally but its just ironic that alot of the people that swear up an down that rolls an drying your brain out all the time has no long term issues are usually the ones that behind their backs are referred to as the Etards/Burnouts/Fryheads.

from the beginning when i was 16 an had my first roll i never said i would let it get out of control because i had seen from my peers what it was doin to them when they abused it. nowadays alot of those same friends are on anti-depressants fucking 23/24/25 year olds that honestly have nothing to be depressed about (good jobs/homelifes/relationships ect) on meds! its kinda crazy.

please no flaming i realize alot of people on this site are on all kinds of meds an you got your own reasons for being on em but these kids really dont have anything to be depressed about and i know them well enough to say that. I think a large part of it us due to 8+ years of multiple weekly uses of drugs. but im no doctor of course just a theory.  :shrug:





Being depressed is not the same as a depression and depression is not just caused by bad things in ones life.  Having a good job, good homelife and relationships, you can still have depression.  There are people who take meds their entire lives due to brain chamical imbalance.

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Invisibledigitalemu
Digital Emu

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 302
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
    #15485073 - 12/08/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
I don't know what's in those capsules but I'm 100% sure that other shit is molly.  And (not to be a dick, just for education purposes), you don't extract MDA from safrole oil.  It's simply a precursor.





Your 100% sure BY A PHOTOGRAPH that it's MDMA and not rock salt?  I have a bin of rock salt in front of my building that looks just like that first picture so there is no way to tell exactly what it is based on the appearance.

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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: digitalemu]
    #15485375 - 12/08/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

digitalemu said:
Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
I don't know what's in those capsules but I'm 100% sure that other shit is molly.  And (not to be a dick, just for education purposes), you don't extract MDA from safrole oil.  It's simply a precursor.





Your 100% sure BY A PHOTOGRAPH that it's MDMA and not rock salt?  I have a bin of rock salt in front of my building that looks just like that first picture so there is no way to tell exactly what it is based on the appearance.




:lol:  It's molly, end of story.  That's all I was saying and that's all I am saying.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.

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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 3,003
Loc: Wonderland
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
    #15485938 - 12/08/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i'll test some SamueLjackson
..if any might be avalible for purchase or trade...
......since your sick of it as you say....
hopefully whatever it is/was has fixed itself in your head dude.
read lotta your posts and your a good member.
so sassofrassa oil/ extract is far more damaging than just MDA/MDMA and what not? for the longest while i thoguht it was what made MDA/MDMA

atleast the powders...i believe most pressies are everything except MDA/MDMA, even the cleaner feeling rolls. the chem has been black listed for too long


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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OfflineShpongle1
Male


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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #15486036 - 12/08/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Scudreloaded said:
so sassofrassa oil/ extract is far more damaging than just MDA/MDMA and what not?




No, it's just that MDA has been shown to be more toxic than MDMA.  All the talk about "extracting" anything is gibberish or misunderstandings.  MDA is MDA, there's no "extracted MDA" vs "synthesized MDA". 

I think the confusion is that you extract safrole oil, which you then modify through a lengthy process to synthesize MDA or MDMA, with MDA typically believed to be more neurotoxic.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.

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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
    #15486279 - 12/08/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

MDA is a more visual thing so oddly it don't surprise me its a lil more damaging


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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OfflineAUX
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Registered: 03/12/11
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #15486553 - 12/08/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

LSD is more visual and is a lil less damaging.

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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: AUX]
    #15487008 - 12/08/11 04:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

im very UNSUREif lsd can be damaging..
ive felt the sizzle feeling your head gets...
drank horrendously on LSD and woken up feeling normal.

but the thing we call afterglow, may be an indicator or that it is damaging.
fucked up the reward receptors atleast.
LSA /LSD make me feel sorta wiped out for around a full week
if the party ends....


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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Offlinepcplease
Salame

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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #15533473 - 12/18/11 02:43 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Scudreloaded said:
i believe most pressies are everything except MDA/MDMA, even the cleaner feeling rolls. the chem has been black listed for too long






Not true at all. There are always a LOT of extremely strong (150mg+) pills in Europe, some of which will inevitably make it to the states, and we have our US pills (pokeballs, mints, etc) with around 50-85mg MDMA apiece. The chemical itself is relatively easily synthesized, and as long as there is demand (forever) the chemical will not cease to exist. Most people pressing pills with MDMA will not add anything active other than maybe caffeine to keep the customers satisfied. People won't notice/appreciate the MDMA if its being overpowered by a higher dose of another drug. Also, some people want a little bit (~5:1 MDMA:meth) of meth to keep them dancing, but there are more pills containing just MDMA than MDMA+_____

Obviously there can be copycats of pills, and bunk/pipe/methbombs, but the ability to know that a pressed pill found in your area contains MDMA/MDA via pillreports or e-data makes taking pressed pills safer than taking molly for those without testing kits or a reliable, trustworthy source of clean moonrocks. It's a lot easier to cut powder than it is to cut a pill.


--------------------

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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: pcplease]
    #15533535 - 12/18/11 03:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pcplease said:
Quote:

Scudreloaded said:
i believe most pressies are everything except MDA/MDMA, even the cleaner feeling rolls. the chem has been black listed for too long






Not true at all. There are always a LOT of extremely strong (150mg+) pills in Europe, some of which will inevitably make it to the states, and we have our US pills (pokeballs, mints, etc) with around 50-85mg MDMA apiece. The chemical itself is relatively easily synthesized, and as long as there is demand (forever) the chemical will not cease to exist. Most people pressing pills with MDMA will not add anything active other than maybe caffeine to keep the customers satisfied. People won't notice/appreciate the MDMA if its being overpowered by a higher dose of another drug. Also, some people want a little bit (~5:1 MDMA:meth) of meth to keep them dancing, but there are more pills containing just MDMA than MDMA+_____

Obviously there can be copycats of pills, and bunk/pipe/methbombs, but the ability to know that a pressed pill found in your area contains MDMA/MDA via pillreports or e-data makes taking pressed pills safer than taking molly for those without testing kits or a reliable, trustworthy source of clean moonrocks. It's a lot easier to cut powder than it is to cut a pill.





pills are never spiked with meth or heroin like alot of people seem to believe. the amount of either drug needed to have effects be felt orally are way bigger than can fit in a pill. plus the cost for meth and heroin to be mixed into a pill that wouldnt give an effect orally anyways isnt economical and doesnt make sense anyways. Just sayin. i used to work for dance safe we did pill testing and not once did i ever see a pill come through with heroin or meth. caffeine yes. piperazines yes. bunk OH YES.


--------------------
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”- Dr. Seuss

"Too much of a good thing, can be wonderful!" - Mae West

"If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth




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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Rewindicus]
    #15534604 - 12/18/11 11:47 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rewindicus said:
Quote:

pcplease said:
Quote:

Scudreloaded said:
i believe most pressies are everything except MDA/MDMA, even the cleaner feeling rolls. the chem has been black listed for too long






Not true at all. There are always a LOT of extremely strong (150mg+) pills in Europe, some of which will inevitably make it to the states, and we have our US pills (pokeballs, mints, etc) with around 50-85mg MDMA apiece. The chemical itself is relatively easily synthesized, and as long as there is demand (forever) the chemical will not cease to exist. Most people pressing pills with MDMA will not add anything active other than maybe caffeine to keep the customers satisfied. People won't notice/appreciate the MDMA if its being overpowered by a higher dose of another drug. Also, some people want a little bit (~5:1 MDMA:meth) of meth to keep them dancing, but there are more pills containing just MDMA than MDMA+_____

Obviously there can be copycats of pills, and bunk/pipe/methbombs, but the ability to know that a pressed pill found in your area contains MDMA/MDA via pillreports or e-data makes taking pressed pills safer than taking molly for those without testing kits or a reliable, trustworthy source of clean moonrocks. It's a lot easier to cut powder than it is to cut a pill.





pills are never spiked with meth or heroin like alot of people seem to believe. the amount of either drug needed to have effects be felt orally are way bigger than can fit in a pill. plus the cost for meth and heroin to be mixed into a pill that wouldnt give an effect orally anyways isnt economical and doesnt make sense anyways. Just sayin. i used to work for dance safe we did pill testing and not once did i ever see a pill come through with heroin or meth. caffeine yes. piperazines yes. bunk OH YES.




Heroin, doubtful. But amphetamines, quite plausible.

http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=28068
http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=28050
http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=28030


--------------------
]

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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


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Posts: 18,686
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] *DELETED* [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15538205 - 12/19/11 03:34 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by NWlight

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:

Edited by NWlight (12/19/11 02:15 PM)

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InvisibleJohn NadaDiscord
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: NWlight]
    #15538289 - 12/19/11 04:39 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:facepalm:

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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: John Nada]
    #15538299 - 12/19/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

StevenMichael said:
:facepalm:



wtf are you face-palming? I'm paying for my college tuition with money I made from slinging E tabs.  I know what I'm talking about.




....PS Dear Federal Government.  I am a compulsive liar seeking the approval of my peers.  I have no friends so i go on drug websites to impress the low-lives of the world who are the only ones who I can impress.


there, happy now ? :wink:


--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:

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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: NWlight]
    #15540083 - 12/19/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Bump.  You guys are claiming tons of BS and I'd like to hear a thought out response.


--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
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Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: NWlight]
    #15540239 - 12/19/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:
Bump.  You guys are claiming tons of BS and I'd like to hear a thought out response.





Who is claiming bs?

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