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menino


Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: chopstick]
#15473191 - 12/06/11 05:22 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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What about the toxic substance h2o?
Water intoxication is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by over-consumption of water.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill
It should be prohibited an put on schedule 1 to protect our children.
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darkczar
The Stage Whisperer


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 218
Loc:
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: chopstick]
#15473289 - 12/06/11 06:27 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: Article is stupid. 15 users of "ecstasy" who in reality may have easily been taking meth/piperazines/cathinones etc. and probably doing a lot of other drugs too. Yes, MDMA is neurotoxic, but this study is still flawed.
My sentiments exactly, Chopstick. There was an article recently about new higher strength ecstacy pills that are around. There was a reference to analysis of large numbers of pills. None of them were pure ecstacy. Some of them had no ecstacy at all.
-------------------- God is my designated driver.
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Ieponumos
Mycophile/Phytophile


Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 4,850
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: withoutawire]
#15473374 - 12/06/11 07:06 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
withoutawire said: Oh I don't doubt MDMA has its side effects, but
Quote:
In the study, they found Ecstasy use produces chronic serotonin neurotoxicity in humans.
This ruins the legitimacy of the article, when it should say. "Chronic ecstasy use leads to serotonin neurotoxicity". Otherwise it sounds like doing ecstasy leads to severe issues, when clearly that's only the case in the more extreme circumstances. This article is an attempt to ruin the legitimacy of MDMA in psychotherapy by wording what I quoted the way it was written. That is what pisses me off, and has me all GRRR. I do know that it causes damage if abused to an extent and anyone who doesn't believe that is just kidding themselves.
The brain has the ability to recover extremely well. MDMA is far less neurotoxic that methamphetamine and I see people daily with years and years of meth abuse who are coming back to normal and functioning at basically the same capacity.
Though that is better, it still implies a causal relationship. A better phrase would be,
Quote:
Chronic esctacy use has been associated with serotonin neuotoxicity.
This still leaves room open for other variables.
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Shpongle1



Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3,163
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
#15473887 - 12/06/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SamuelLJackson said: it would be a lot cooler to have a reason to limit your use ahead of time as opposed to doing what i did last summer and saying "durrhurr government puts out only lies about drugs, nothing bad will happen if i eat a bunch of ecstasy on a regular basis" and finding out the hard way that ecstasy most definitely fucks up your brain if you do it too much.
Could I ask what specifically you noticed change? You just talking the typically depression-like symptoms after a binge or something more serious/long lasting/debilitating?
-------------------- There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
#15473932 - 12/06/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SamuelLJackson said: you dont overlook good data just because someone isn't on your side about a particular subject.
This is not "good data". I agree, we have to do honest research about those substances and accept it, if it is unbiased. However, following anything from a sample size of 25 people is scientific bullshit.
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Scudreloaded
psychonaut



Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 3,003
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
#15473992 - 12/06/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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i deffinitly notice depression for a few days afterwards. that feeling of your serotonin being burned out. with prolonged abuse ive seen memory issues arise. its a bummer. i will never forget some of those memories and my bud wont even remember
-------------------- We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson
- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1] 3
#15474042 - 12/06/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shpongle1 said:
Quote:
SamuelLJackson said: it would be a lot cooler to have a reason to limit your use ahead of time as opposed to doing what i did last summer and saying "durrhurr government puts out only lies about drugs, nothing bad will happen if i eat a bunch of ecstasy on a regular basis" and finding out the hard way that ecstasy most definitely fucks up your brain if you do it too much.
Could I ask what specifically you noticed change? You just talking the typically depression-like symptoms after a binge or something more serious/long lasting/debilitating?
its a variety of things, all of which arent apparent in my day to day life. im not sure if the symptoms still persist or not, because i stopped using ecstasy after i put 2 and 2 together in my brain and realized what was happening; and the symptoms only show their ugly head after i have done ecstasy.
the symptoms that i ONLY get from ecstasy are a variety of things. while rolling i get lightheaded very very easily. if i stand up suddenly i am at high risk of passing out. my vision blacks out completely if i stand up at all and i have to lean against a wall until my vision comes back and the lightheadedness goes away.
that symptom also shows the day after doing ecstasy, and can lasts the whole day or only a few hours after a wake up. by this i mean the lightheadedness and the blacking out of my vision will occur whenever i stand up after doing ecstasy. my vision usually comes back within 10 seconds of standing up but the lightheadedness can persist for a few minutes. but those small portions of time where i am lightheaded and cant see will happen every time i stand up for at least a few hours.
another symptom is a ringing in my ears. like in call of duty when a flash bang grenade goes off. more often than not this comes along with the blacking out of my vision or lightheadedness. the ringing usually is very loud for a few seconds and then winds down into a constant tone which eventually dissipates after a few minutes.
headaches are pretty common as well.
another thing is a recurring bad trip that revolves around memory problems. basically i experience the complete inability to remember things that happened even moments ago. i will forget what im talking about mid sentence. i will forget what i looked at 2 seconds previously. i will forget everything. its like information hits my brain and then just bounces off of it and isnt processed. i get this symptom not only while on ecstasy but also while doing other drugs such as shooms, lsd, or mescaline. its very hard to put into words what makes this trip so horrifying, but it is only something that has happened to me after my recent ecstasy binge and not only that but it transcends individual drugs and is a blanket symptom which will show up randomly even if i take as little as one hit of acid. (so long as i have recently done ecstasy as well)
as i said, i stopped doing ecstasy as soon as i realized that the overuse of ecstasy was what caused these problems, and since then havent experienced them.
its some really serious shit, there is no reason for those things to happen. it was really embarrassing and i kind of hid the fact for a while but ive decided that its dumb to just sweep it under the rug and now i think its worth mentioning.
also, a lot of people get "brain zaps" after overdoing the ecstasy. i never got brain zaps but i talked to a lot of people who got them during my own quest for an explanation to my own symptoms. brain zaps are (from what i hear) the sensation of a shock in the brain and then a few seconds to a minute of the blacking out of the vision and lightheadedness which i also experience, though without the shocking sensation in my head.
everyone can be my guest and make shitty comparisons between mdma toxicity and water toxicity or whatever kind of other stuff you want to do to downplay something which is well known, but i just want you all to know that mdma isnt good for you at all and if youre going to do it you should only do it a few times a year at most, with as much time between rolls as you can possibly wait.
i didnt do that, and now i literally cant roll because i would rather function normally than suffer crippling symptoms the day after i take ecstasy.
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
#15474122 - 12/06/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy. I think that responsible use is quite safe. I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: pwnasaurus]
#15474148 - 12/06/11 11:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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and thats exactly what i said, if you read my entire post.
though i wouldnt say "safe" as much as i would say "not a big problem".
its like smoking a few cig's here and there. sure, you might not get cancer, but youre not doing yourself any good either.
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Shpongle1



Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3,163
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
#15474173 - 12/06/11 11:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Damn, that is terrible sounding. Thanks for the detailed response man.
I'm with you on playing it as safe as can possibly be managed. I never do it without at least 2 months in between at the very minimum and don't exceed 4 times a year max.
That could be the reason that I've never experienced anything like you're talking about but I've also seen friends of mine do just about the same amount of molly as me and experience some pretty serious seeming brain malfunctions. Jaw clenched, eyes scary intense-looking and stringing together sentences like "Holy shit, spidiffid combitzer blestipitsy magredinner.." Start out with a few recognizable words and just turn into some grade A bullshit. Not even mumble mouth, just taking total nonsense.
Very strange chemical in some respects. I'm really curious to know what factors play the biggest role in these sort of negative effects occurring. Obviously dosage, frequency of use and genetic predisposition. I'm just extremely curious which play the biggest role. Based on my observations it seems like genetic sensitivity to MDMA is a pretty huge factor and seems to vary greatly between individuals. My tiny girlfriend was like "Yeah, I mean... I feel good but it's not too intense." off just about the same amount where I had to step outside for a minute and get some air because I was coming up so hard. And I certainly don't feel overly sensitive to MDMA, if anything, the opposite compared to most people.
-------------------- There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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Ieponumos
Mycophile/Phytophile


Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 4,850
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: pwnasaurus]
#15474219 - 12/06/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said: OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy. I think that responsible use is quite safe. I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.
How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Shpongle1]
#15474221 - 12/06/11 11:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shpongle1 said: Jaw clenched, eyes scary intense-looking and stringing together sentences like "Holy shit, spidiffid combitzer blestipitsy magredinner.." Start out with a few recognizable words and just turn into some grade A bullshit. Not even mumble mouth, just taking total nonsense.
yea, i completely forgot to mention that shit. that only happens when im also tripping though.
tripping + rolling = inability to speak and drastic loss of memory
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
#15474387 - 12/06/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ieponumos said:
Quote:
pwnasaurus said: OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy. I think that responsible use is quite safe. I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.
How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.
Me? I take pure M, I don't take rolls.
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Ieponumos
Mycophile/Phytophile


Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 4,850
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: pwnasaurus]
#15474563 - 12/06/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
Ieponumos said:
Quote:
pwnasaurus said: OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy. I think that responsible use is quite safe. I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.
How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.
Me? I take pure M, I don't take rolls.
Sorry 'bout that. I clicked the wrong quote. My question was directed towards Mr. Samuel L. Jackson. I've not done MDMA, but if I were to it would be only the best of Molly.
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The Vapor
Lost In A Tea Daze


Registered: 03/22/10
Posts: 8,433
Loc: Misty Mountains, B.C.
Last seen: 8 days, 22 hours
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: 5-HT2A]
#15476293 - 12/06/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
5-HT2A said: This study sort of tells you nothing. It shows differences in brain scans but gives no information on how that translates to performance/well-being. It also examined a very small number of women.
An those everyone is different to start with, so their low sample size just made things even more muddy.
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
#15476328 - 12/06/11 06:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ieponumos said:
Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
Ieponumos said:
Quote:
pwnasaurus said: OK, now I don't disagree with anything you've said, but the key here is you are talking about ABUSING and OVERUSING ecstasy. I think that responsible use is quite safe. I'm talking like 3-4 times a year.
How pure was the X you consumed? Rolls are notorious for containing adulterants such as meth.
Me? I take pure M, I don't take rolls.
Sorry 'bout that. I clicked the wrong quote. My question was directed towards Mr. Samuel L. Jackson. I've not done MDMA, but if I were to it would be only the best of Molly.
the only stuff ive eaten for the past ~8 months (until i stopped eating it) looked like this.

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AUX
Entheogenist

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 661
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
#15476597 - 12/06/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sassafras does a lot more damage to your brain than MDMA. The pills in the 2nd picture look an awful lot like sassafras to me. Just sayin'.
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Ieponumos
Mycophile/Phytophile


Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 4,850
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: AUX]
#15476683 - 12/06/11 07:33 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SamuelLJackson said:
the only stuff ive eaten for the past ~8 months (until i stopped eating it) looked like this.


Damn, well that sucks to hear about your plight, especially considering the quality of the stuff. I hope that your symptoms never reappear for your sake.
I don't think I'd do it without at least a Marquis test.
Quote:
AUX said: Sassafras does a lot more damage to your brain than MDMA. The pills in the 2nd picture look an awful lot like sassafras to me. Just sayin'.
You mean MDA?
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AUX
Entheogenist

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 661
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: Ieponumos]
#15479569 - 12/07/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, I mean MDA. That stuff in particular looks like it was extracted from saffrole oil and around here, we just call that sass.
MDA was big before MDMA and it was fucking people up pretty bad. Then somebody methylated it and it became far less neurotoxic. But today, lots of molly is partially or fully MDA. If you are eating a lot of MDA, you are going to experience a lot more negative effects than if you are eating a lot of MDMA.
Yes, that brown shit is bomb. No, its not "pure molly". Go ahead and eat it if you want but know that you are not eating MDMA.
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Shpongle1



Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3,163
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Ecstasy users' brains show toxic effects [CAN] [Re: AUX]
#15480478 - 12/07/11 01:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know what's in those capsules but I'm 100% sure that other shit is molly. And (not to be a dick, just for education purposes), you don't extract MDA from safrole oil. It's simply a precursor.
-------------------- There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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