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OfflineNixxiJ
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possible copelandia cyanescens, UK?
    #15468914 - 12/05/11 12:32 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

http://

Habitat:
West Midlands, UK, Short grass (but no animals graze here that I know of!)

Gills:Dark Brown, not attached (I think - TINY space between end of gills and top of stem?)

Stem:
Thin, about 6cm in length, pale brown to beige.

Cap:
3-4 cm diameter, beige with slightly darker margins, conical, convex.

Spore print color:
BLACK

Bruising:
No - but I picked them yesterday and didn't check when fresh.

No smell to speak of - just a slightly mushroomy smell!


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: NixxiJ]
    #15468926 - 12/05/11 12:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Panaeolus cyanescens is a tropical species. It doesn't occur in the UK in the wild.

Your mushroom looks like a psathyrella species to me.


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Offlinem-d-m-a
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: koraks]
    #15469057 - 12/05/11 01:03 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

What he said


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: koraks]
    #15469666 - 12/05/11 03:37 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Panaeolus cyanescens is a tropical species. It doesn't occur in the UK in the wild.





This is quite obvious, yet it is listed in the "Mushrooms by state/area"-list:

England (United Kingdom)

Conocybe kuehneriana
Copelandia cyanescens    <
Gymnopilus junonius
Gymnopilus purpuratus
Gymnopilus sp.
Inocybe corydalina var. corydalina
Inocybe haemacta
Panaeolus castaneifolius
Panaeolus cinctulus
Panaeolus fimicola
Panaeolus olivaceus
Panaeolus retirugis
Panaeolus sp.
Pluteus salicinus
Psilocybe cyanescens
Psilocybe fimetaria
Psilocybe semilanceata
Psilocybe strictipes


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #15469721 - 12/05/11 03:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Panaeolus cyanescens is a tropical species. It doesn't occur in the UK in the wild.





This is quite obvious, yet it is listed in the "Mushrooms by state/area"-list:

England (United Kingdom)

Conocybe kuehneriana
Copelandia cyanescens    <
Gymnopilus junonius
Gymnopilus purpuratus
Gymnopilus sp.
Inocybe corydalina var. corydalina
Inocybe haemacta
Panaeolus castaneifolius
Panaeolus cinctulus
Panaeolus fimicola
Panaeolus olivaceus
Panaeolus retirugis
Panaeolus sp.
Pluteus salicinus
Psilocybe cyanescens
Psilocybe fimetaria
Psilocybe semilanceata
Psilocybe strictipes




I think might just be a error. I heard a story once of a lady buying dung from a zoo and spreading it over her yard as a fertilizer, later a passer by noticed some Copelandia cyanescens growing from her yard.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: koraks]
    #15469954 - 12/05/11 04:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Panaeolus cyanescens is a tropical species. It doesn't occur in the UK in the wild.






It does according to Keay & Brown 1990, and that is why it is on the list.  If anyone has access to that article please PM me.


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Invisiblevjp
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15470045 - 12/05/11 05:00 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Panaeolus cyanescens is a tropical species. It doesn't occur in the UK in the wild.






It does according to Keay & Brown 1990, and that is why it is on the list.  If anyone has access to that article please PM me.




pm'd


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OfflineFronnis
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15470111 - 12/05/11 05:14 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

You shouldn't be expecting to be finding Panaeolus cyanescens in England, and most definitely not in December xD.
I know that the "Leicestershire and Rutland Environmental Records Centre" dataset reports a finding near Coventry. There have been been findings this year as north as (south) Switzerland this year, but it's known for them to sometimes grow when the conditions are right by the mountains around there.


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Fronnis]
    #15471556 - 12/05/11 10:29 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

i know stamets has seen them in the pnw once and ive seen a picture of ,i think Michael Beugs, pnw Pan cyan as well. :shrug: and we have similiar climates.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15473133 - 12/06/11 06:14 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
i know stamets has seen them in the pnw once and ive seen a picture of ,i think Michael Beugs, pnw Pan cyan as well. :shrug: and we have similiar climates.





Those were probably Copelandia bispora.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15473155 - 12/06/11 06:34 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Panaeolus cyanescens is a tropical species. It doesn't occur in the UK in the wild.






It does according to Keay & Brown 1990, and that is why it is on the list.  If anyone has access to that article please PM me.



I just looked through that article (full text) quickly, but copelandia/panaeolus cyanescens isn't mentioned in it.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: koraks]
    #15473166 - 12/06/11 06:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
I just looked through that article (full text) quickly, but copelandia/panaeolus cyanescens isn't mentioned in it.




I couldn't find it either.  I wonder if there is some other source which says that or it is just a mistake.  It lists that as the reference in "A Worldwide Distribution of Neurotropic Fungi."  Perhaps they published something else as well in 1990?



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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15473175 - 12/06/11 07:05 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Well, scholar.google.com doesn't really come up with anything relevant.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: koraks]
    #15473181 - 12/06/11 07:10 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Well, scholar.google.com doesn't really come up with anything relevant.





Allright, that does it.  I removed Copelandia cyanescens from the UK list until someone can find a solid reference that it does occur there.


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15473351 - 12/06/11 08:57 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
i know stamets has seen them in the pnw once and ive seen a picture of ,i think Michael Beugs, pnw Pan cyan as well. :shrug: and we have similiar climates.





Those were probably Copelandia bispora.




why is that?

but now that i look at this Micael Beug pic it doesnt look like Pan cyans to me at all. what about you ?

http://www.svims.ca/council/Panaeo.htm


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15473361 - 12/06/11 09:00 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
i know stamets has seen them in the pnw once and ive seen a picture of ,i think Michael Beugs, pnw Pan cyan as well. :shrug: and we have similiar climates.





Those were probably Copelandia bispora.




why is that?

but now that i look at this Micael Beug pic it doesnt look like Pan cyans to me at all. what about you ?

http://www.svims.ca/council/Panaeo.htm




That picture is tripping me out!!! Seriously, if one can find a Pan cyan in that kind of wether, wtf is stopping it from popping up around here?


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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15473533 - 12/06/11 10:14 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
but now that i look at this Micael Beug pic it doesnt look like Pan cyans to me at all. what about you ?

http://www.svims.ca/council/Panaeo.htm



That pic doesn't look like Pan cyanenscens to me either. It looks much closer to Pan cinctulus.


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"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: TimmiT]
    #15474185 - 12/06/11 01:12 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TimmiT said:
Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
but now that i look at this Micael Beug pic it doesnt look like Pan cyans to me at all. what about you ?

http://www.svims.ca/council/Panaeo.htm



That pic doesn't look like Pan cyanenscens to me either. It looks much closer to Pan cinctulus.




Could be that bluing strain of P. cinctulus or perhaps something undescribed. I will admit that the stem is meatier and the still hydrated caps too dark for cyans, but that bluing is so intense. If those are subbs, they are some of the most potent ones in this world.

Now that I look at it though, one thing that really seems off is the picture of the surrounding habitat.

It looks like wood chips that they're coming out of, despite his description of the habitat being dung/pastures.


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Offlineamilibertine
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15474208 - 12/06/11 01:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Quote:

TimmiT said:
Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
but now that i look at this Micael Beug pic it doesnt look like Pan cyans to me at all. what about you ?

http://www.svims.ca/council/Panaeo.htm



That pic doesn't look like Pan cyanenscens to me either. It looks much closer to Pan cinctulus.




Could be that bluing strain of P. cinctulus or perhaps something undescribed. I will admit that the stem is meatier and the still hydrated caps too dark for cyans, but that bluing is so intense. If those are subbs, they are some of the most potent ones in this world.

Now that I look at it though, one thing that really seems off is the picture of the surrounding habitat.

It looks like wood chips that they're coming out of, despite his description of the habitat being dung/pastures.




I was thinking the same thing about the substrate.  I just gonna put this out there but those gills look an awful lot like Psilocybe gills to me.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: amilibertine]
    #15474233 - 12/06/11 01:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

amilibertine said:
Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Quote:

TimmiT said:
Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
but now that i look at this Micael Beug pic it doesnt look like Pan cyans to me at all. what about you ?

http://www.svims.ca/council/Panaeo.htm



That pic doesn't look like Pan cyanenscens to me either. It looks much closer to Pan cinctulus.




Could be that bluing strain of P. cinctulus or perhaps something undescribed. I will admit that the stem is meatier and the still hydrated caps too dark for cyans, but that bluing is so intense. If those are subbs, they are some of the most potent ones in this world.

Now that I look at it though, one thing that really seems off is the picture of the surrounding habitat.

It looks like wood chips that they're coming out of, despite his description of the habitat being dung/pastures.




I was thinking the same thing about the substrate.  I just gonna put this out there but those gills look an awful lot like Psilocybe gills to me.




Looking a the concentric rings on the pilei, I'm thinking Panaeolus.
:2cents:


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Offlinesuchen
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15474327 - 12/06/11 01:42 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

They certainly look very Panaeolus-y. I think the substrate is a compost heap, possibly with manure mixed in. That is an outrageous photo with all that bluing!


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Rod Tulloss said:

The bulb is the bulb.

The volva is the volva.

They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”


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OfflineUK Explorer
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: suchen]
    #15474822 - 12/06/11 03:30 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I've heard rumours of more exotic spcies surviving in the South West of the UK whose weather conditions are much warmer and milder, more akin to the North of France. Couldn't really envisage such species lasting long in the wider UK though.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15475020 - 12/06/11 04:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:
It looks like wood chips that they're coming out of, despite his description of the habitat being dung/pastures.





They are probably stable shavings.  The west coast is way out of the temperature range that Panaeolus cyanescens likes, but several people have found Copelandia bispora there.  It would be interesting to check the herbarium deposit for 2 spored basidia.


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15476449 - 12/06/11 08:59 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Quote:

TimmiT said:
Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
but now that i look at this Micael Beug pic it doesnt look like Pan cyans to me at all. what about you ?

http://www.svims.ca/council/Panaeo.htm



That pic doesn't look like Pan cyanenscens to me either. It looks much closer to Pan cinctulus.




Could be that bluing strain of P. cinctulus or perhaps something undescribed. I will admit that the stem is meatier and the still hydrated caps too dark for cyans, but that bluing is so intense. If those are subbs, they are some of the most potent ones in this world.

Now that I look at it though, one thing that really seems off is the picture of the surrounding habitat.

It looks like wood chips that they're coming out of, despite his description of the habitat being dung/pastures.





I agree, either cinctuls or something new.

you would think this guy would have checked it out
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Ieponumos said:
It looks like wood chips that they're coming out of, despite his description of the habitat being dung/pastures.





They are probably stable shavings.  The west coast is way out of the temperature range that Panaeolus cyanescens likes, but several people have found Copelandia bispora there.  It would be interesting to check the herbarium deposit for 2 spored basidia.





who made those finds and how do you know they were Copelandia bispora? a Coplandia of any species found in the PNW is an exciting thing and VERY out of the ordinary!

Stamets says he id'd a mushroom from Tenino WA that HE SAID was Copelandia cyanescen . the owner bought horses fron Florida and the mushrooms died out after 2 years! pg 75 of PMOTW.
dont you think he would have looked at it under a scope and would have noticed if it had 2 spored basidia instead of 4 ? C cyanescen  indistinguishable from C bispora nacroscopically correct? and isnt C bispora from north africa?? maybe he didnt even look and you are correct Alan.


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15476509 - 12/06/11 09:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I live in the warmest part of the UK and I've looked in loads of cow and horse dwelling fields in the last 5 or 6 years, and I've never found any copes, personally, or heard of anyone finding any.


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Offlinepsylosymonreturns
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: elprawn]
    #15476574 - 12/06/11 09:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

ya its not something one could look for, more something you may fluke out and bump into one day.


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15476603 - 12/06/11 09:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

It is probably just something someone lied about to make themselves sounds cooler than they really are.
"O look it's an active panaeolus, the only logical conclusion is it must be copelandia cyanescens."


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May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.



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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15476830 - 12/06/11 09:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:


dont you think he would have looked at it under a scope and would have noticed if it had 2 spored basidia instead of 4 ? C cyanescen  indistinguishable from C bispora nacroscopically correct? and isnt C bispora from north africa?? maybe he didnt even look and you are correct Alan.




Correct, all members of Panaeolus, section Copelandia are identifiable only under the scope.

C. tropicalis is primarily distributed in Africa.

It would be interesting to see these in greater depth.


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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15478026 - 12/07/11 02:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm also in the warmest part of the UK and having hunted for shrooms in many fields for over 10 years i can also say ive never come across any dung related shrooms


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15478267 - 12/07/11 03:35 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
who made those finds and how do you know they were Copelandia bispora?




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10357885#10357885
http://mushroomobserver.org/21080
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8890525#8890525


Quote:

a Coplandia of any species found in the PNW is an exciting thing and VERY out of the ordinary!




It has been reported before more than twice.

Quote:

Stamets says he id'd a mushroom from Tenino WA that HE SAID was Copelandia cyanescen . the owner bought horses fron Florida and the mushrooms died out after 2 years! pg 75 of PMOTW.
dont you think he would have looked at it under a scope




Absolutely not.

Quote:

and would have noticed if it had 2 spored basidia instead of 4 ?





Stamets?  Are you kidding?

Quote:

C cyanescen  indistinguishable from C bispora nacroscopically correct?





It is more of an olive color and macroscopically resembles a strongly bluing Panaeolus cinctulus.  It likes horse dung and grass and fruits from San Diego to Washington.

Quote:

and isnt C bispora from north africa??




It grows there too.

Quote:

maybe he didnt even look and you are correct Alan.




Stamets usually doesn't check microscopic features.


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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15478894 - 12/07/11 08:59 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

wow that is friggin cool, nice find Lipa!!!

well thanks for the links alan! that is a sweet find! i definetly didnt see that one!

i highly doubt they grow up this high but i will definetly keep my eyes on the Pans!!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible copelandia cyanescens, UK? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15478939 - 12/07/11 09:20 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psylosymonreturns said:
i highly doubt they grow up this high but i will definetly keep my eyes on the Pans!!




It probably does, Panaeolus bispora has been recorded from Washington.


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