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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
If...
    #1545200 - 05/13/03 03:08 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

If "spiritual" books have it right and we truly do not die and time is actually meaningless and we will all return to the source eventually, why bother striving for "spiritual advancement"? Why effort at all if the end is inevitable?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1545213 - 05/13/03 03:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

That is the big paradox. Trying to become something is one of the great barriers, because obviously if you are focused on becoming, you are not "being here now". Zen masters tried to make their students strive for enlightenment until the point where they realized that it is not something that can be achieved. At this point, one supposedly becomes enlightened. Enlightenment is not something that the ego can "do" or "get", and that is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for so many people (including myself).

I don't know about your gross characterization of "spiritual" books, though. Maybe you are talking about new age mumbo jumbo???


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1545214 - 05/13/03 03:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

hmm...for fun? for the experence?
i dont' really know...


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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Anonymous

Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1545220 - 05/13/03 03:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Let's see, according to my calendar........


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Anonymous

Re: If... [Re: soylent_green]
    #1545232 - 05/13/03 03:22 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

If you're right and were wrong why worry about arguing with everyone so much?


It's just the way things are. If this whole thing does go down it is likely that the people who believed and had knowledge about it's coming will have a better chance of living or transitioning...or whatever else happens. you'd prolly be sitting on your couch with shit in your pants watching FOX news saying 'omg omg omg omg omg omg'.


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: If... [Re: ]
    #1545248 - 05/13/03 03:26 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i dont' see anything wrong with asking the question,
if i could answer you better i would.
but really, i think mabey people just do it...because they feel like it..


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1545412 - 05/13/03 04:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Well they way I understand it is, if you advance now you will end or minimize suffering and have a jolly good time, if you don?t, you will eventually return to the source but suffering all the way.
But what do I know.


--------------------


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OfflineYou_are_God
^So are We^
Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 63
Loc: The Dream Game...
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: If... [Re: soylent_green]
    #1545415 - 05/13/03 04:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

considering that everything is "perfect" and free will does not exist then there is truly no choice but to take the path that is set for "you". Basically it all works out for us.
Peace


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1545426 - 05/13/03 04:22 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think I really strive for "spiritual advancement," but I'm starting to think that the line between "spiritual advancement" and "scientific understanding" is disappearing.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offline11polakie11
PeripheralCustodian

Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 112
Loc: G-Ville FLA
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: If... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1545843 - 05/13/03 06:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

at the center of the hurricane lies the calmest spot
in the center of the atoms of the hurricane exists the same calm

to think of things as inaccesible or distant, is to construct your own blindness - and walking the path with or without seeing happens regardless


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1546016 - 05/13/03 07:31 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Things we do in reality affect it, being spiritual affects reality positively, so it is beneficial to all those who live and die in it.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1546040 - 05/13/03 07:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"If "spiritual" books have it right and we truly do not die and time is actually meaningless and we will all return to the source eventually, why bother striving for "spiritual advancement"? Why effort at all if the end is inevitable?"
-------------------

The other day, Sclorch introduced a term I never heard of- this word might actually be a new term. The term is: Coherence check.

From what I understood, I asked the folowing: Then, testing, fine tuning and adjusting [of a theory or philosophy] is termed a coherence check?

Sclorch agreed.


I really enjoy reading what you post, Swami, because you are like a coherence check initiator.  :grin:

I've been waiting for you to say something.  :laugh:



Ok....  First of all,  I would like to know what "spiritual books" you may be refering to...


Personally, when I look at the concept of life after death, I relate it to a scientific principle I learned in high school...  >That, energy gets transfered, and not destroyed<... 

I believe, that what I am, constitutes largely of energy...  So I hope that "whoever" discovered that rule, that they were correct.... [ If not, then we are all in BIG DO DO ]



I'd like to ask you....  Why do you think time is meaningless?



In terms of returning to a source...  I suppose that would be a reasonable "think"  to deduce....

But...  I am under the impression that we [as a population] have come from TWO independent souces  ( I will not explain that at this time... so, please, don't ask... and try not to ASSUME  :grin:  ) ....

I also think, that since we are all here, together,  that we are all heading in the SAME direction ...  as a population.



Striving for "spiritual advancement" [ you may have to explain exactly what you mean by that particular term ], is then necessary in terms of understanding what is going on, where it is that we really are, and what destination it is that we might be heading. [ I think- cause it may depend on what you meant by the above term ]



[ I think ]  The end will be one of two possibilities.  [ I think ]  We all need to figure out together how to inititiate the more pleasing ending... [ I think ]  A time of freedom approaches; when it is here, everyone's ( or at least of the majority ) decision making should be fine tuned and ready for action...

After having come this far, changing course to a "DOWNWARD SPIRAL" would be "bitter tasting" [ I think, and I hope you'd agree ].

So... I don't know what end you are refering to when you say it is inevitable...



I feel that the future is NOTwhat it used to be...  And THAT is where the miracle lies ! 

     


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,729
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 20 days, 6 hours
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1547387 - 05/14/03 05:45 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Why the effort? Because humans are by nature intent-driven choicemaking machines. We do things. And spiritual advancement allows us to do things that are not primarily about satisfying our egos, so it opens up more options, while removing some unnecessary fear and suffering. That's motivation enough for me.


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: If... [Re: Swami]
    #1548058 - 05/14/03 02:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It's the exploration of truth.

Why would you really want to live a life where you never grow? I suppose some people ignore their abilaties and would rather just be lazy about life and have other peoples' ways of thinking controll them.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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