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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
2012...a little info?
    #1542856 - 05/12/03 07:37 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

alright...i know theres something up with 2012...but is it some kind of universal thing....
and i've heard that in that year..we will be able to seperate from our bodies or it will become easyer or something...
but i havne't been able to find much info on it to find out what it's all about.
so, dose anyone know anything about 2012? or have any good informitive web sites they would like to share?
thanks  :laugh:


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1543111 - 05/12/03 08:58 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

There are all kinds of different ideas as to just what the whole 2012 ascension is all about.

From what I have gathered, there seem to be 2 extremes. On one extreme, there is an all out apocalypse which destroys all or almost all life on this planet, by way of some natural disasters, or possibly a nuclear war or series of meltdowns.

Another extreme is that we will smoothly transcend into a higher state of existence. The fourth, and then the fifth dimension. This means our astral as well as our physical bodies will undergo rapid change. Our DNA will supposedly mutate, or evolve from a 2-strand double-helix to a 12 strand tetrahedron. Supposedly this process is currently underway.

I don't buy into any one of these 2 extremes as of yet. I think it could be a combination of both events. I think that there may be a global cataclysm, destroying a large majority of life on earth, and that some of us who are well-prepared will be able to stay alive and focus on our ascension to the 5th dimension.

From what I know, it's not a universal thing... it applies only to our solar system, which is passing through the milky way galaxy's central meridian. Some believe that there are alien beings existing in higher realms who have come to watch over our planet and aid in our spiritual advancement so that our transcendence goes as smoothly as possible. Or, they may just be here to observe, because it is a galactic event that only occurs once in a very long time.

I wish I knew more about it all. I have tried to read about it and given up most of the time because of so many conflicting ideas, causing my brain to shift into overdrive. I start getting so many thoughts that I just can't read any more.

There are all kinds of websites out there that will discuss the 2012 ascension. Just try a search engine... Search for 2012 ascension, or try going to a library or bookstore and look for books by John Major Jenkins. He writes about the Mayan calendar and their prophecies, as well as scientific data relating to 2012. He has a book called "Maya Cosmogenesis 2012" that I highly reccomend. I haven't read all of it as of yet, but it is a fascinating read.

I'm sure Shroomism will have plenty to add to this.


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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.

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OfflineViBrAnT
WaRpInG &sPiRaLiNg
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 286
Last seen: 21 years, 13 days
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1543126 - 05/12/03 09:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

anyone who thinks that 2012 will be big year, i will personally end your life. there now you dont have to think about such garbage, oh by the way my friends call me tRuThLiEs............


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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1543128 - 05/12/03 09:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's both an apocalypse and an ascension depending on how you perceive it. Most people will die as the earth cleanses itself, however some will live on to partake in a new golden age of civilization on earth.

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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1543135 - 05/12/03 09:03 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I typed "2012" into google and it gave me this: 2012 Unlimited

Looks informative, for whatever it's worth. I would also check into "Terence McKenna" or "timewave zero." Hope that helps.

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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1543152 - 05/12/03 09:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

anyone who thinks that 2012 will be big year, i will personally end your life. there now you dont have to think about such garbage............




Whoa there, take it easy brother, I don't think threatening people's lives for pursuing some information is all too helpful!
If you think that the theory is bunk, why don't you explain why rather than resorting to death threats? I'd like to hear your reasons, because I am still skeptical about 2012. I never draw early conclusions... in fact I never draw conclusions period.

So let's hear it!


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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.

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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1543233 - 05/12/03 09:30 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

wow..i didnt' know it had any apocalypse meaning too it...
i was just kinda courious at waht it's all about...


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1543630 - 05/12/03 11:16 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

will athiests transcend or are we doomed?

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1543709 - 05/12/03 11:35 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Steer clear of that 2012 website for now man. Theres way too much bullshit to sort through. The guy makes half that shit up.

Check the spiritual links thread at the top of this forum, some of the sites there have good info. Until you are familiar with the theories, you want be able to sort through the good and the absurd at that site.

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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1543752 - 05/12/03 11:53 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Good advice Fiend. Sorry for posting a link that I didn't bother to verify myself. Very lazy of me.

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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: sunyata]
    #1543777 - 05/13/03 12:04 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, you have to watch out, because a lot of the people who make these websites about 2012 are adding their own theories to their information. A lot of anything you read about 2012 will be just theory or opinion, not necessarily fact, so be sure to do plenty of research before you allow yourself to be persuaded one way or another.

"will athiests transcend or are we doomed?"

The 2012 ascension isn't like god coming to take the believers to heaven... although some people may think that way.

It's impossible to answer that question, because it's not your religious, spiritual or philosophical title that will play into what may happen in the coming years. I would say that it more has to do with your individual level of awareness and your state of consciousness... your vibration, or perhaps it will be a decision made by your higher self to ascend or to stay in 3rd density for whatever reason. Again, all this is just speculation, I am not trying to pass anything I say off as fact, that's up to you to decide.



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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1543848 - 05/13/03 12:18 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

By 2012, homo sapiens will cease to exist.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1543856 - 05/13/03 12:20 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)


Who knows what will happen in 2012.

Just don't jump on the bandwagon of thinking that something will, because believing what someone else tells you without proof is stupid.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Invisiblepsyphon
mneumatic device

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/27/01
Posts: 565
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1543906 - 05/13/03 12:35 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Also, if too many people believe that apocalypse will come in 2012, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. :wink: 


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"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: psyphon]
    #1543982 - 05/13/03 12:57 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think it will.

Remember the Y2K bug?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1544014 - 05/13/03 01:06 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Led by courageous individuals, the masses start their periodically historic march towards Liberty. But with the weight of their quantitive nature, they assist the law of gravity in returning them to the depths of the same bondage. And so they start again and again, each time feeling that it will be the solvent effort. At times, the hub wears away and then comes impotence, until the awakening of a new civilization.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ViBrAnT]
    #1544896 - 05/13/03 11:24 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

anyone who thinks that 2012 will be  big year, i will personally end your life. there now you dont have to think about such garbage, oh by the way my friends call me tRuThLiEs............ 




Yeah, the Be Nice policy is relaxed but it is not that relaxed.  You don't threaten others with harm in this forum.

You have recieved a first warning.  The next time you flame or act up you will receive a temp ban from the Administrator.

I'm sorry about this but you really need to be a bit more careful in your choice of words.  :frown:

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OfflineFatNug
Si-Hing

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 150
Loc: Everywhere at 1nce
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1545206 - 05/13/03 01:10 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

look, here are some vittles for thought.

http://www.bluehoney.org/MayaNotes.htm
http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html
http://www.2012.com.au/mayan.html


I'm not quite sure which side of the fence Im playin on this one.

All I know is I've had a personal feeling that some large world changes are coming during my lifetime, since about 5 or 6, Ive had dreams, and well, Id call them flashbacks, but they don't seem to be of the past. and it only gets stronger as the years pass, but im still not sure that I buy the date...however these damn Mayans Do know their shit. and they do have the most accurate calender on this earth to this day. And they did know their astronomy quite remarkably well. It is supposed to occur due to the earth being fully in the "Photon belt" or the center of the milkeyway, which we are, with our planet being fully immersed in some kind of crazy space energy...I don't know I guess there's only one way to find out..patients.



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================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}

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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1545212 - 05/13/03 01:13 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I know the evolution is coming

How can i say i know? Because i see it in all things.(the movies of 2003 will befilled with these concepts) after all its the war on terrorism, a war on consciousness, a war on anyone with a higher dna code than two. think of it like this, God (man) has been framed.

What will happen in 2012, is a mystery, personally i dont think the earth will be destroyed, life will remain its just there will be huge changes that will occur on this planet, in the next 15 years. Its the end of the antichrist's (pural) rule, and the rise of the antichrist(one) at the same time.

think of jesus ([all psychic talents] walks on water, heals sick boy, rises from the dead) as an embodyed human with dna strain code of 7 or 8, possibly 2013 will be the beginning of the full 12 strains. Thats why they say there are no words for 2012.


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1545219 - 05/13/03 01:17 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

i'll check out thoses sites, thanks everyone for there thoughts.


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1548033 - 05/14/03 11:56 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)


We are always evolving- I don't think it happens drastically.

God (man) has been framed.

I like that idea.  :grin:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/23/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1548544 - 05/14/03 03:15 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

i got really intersted in this thanks to this post....
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum11&Number=1505132&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

thats a big link... and the posters website as well..

http://comeonover.topcities.com/


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1549536 - 05/14/03 10:20 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

around in the year 2012, it will be the end of the world as we know it.  I read through this thread, and the answer is in a few posts.  You people know who you are.  :smile:  The world will be so full of hate and suffering...there will be volcanoes, earthquakes, polar ice caps melting and lots more bullshit.  While this is going on there will be wars of mass destruction and murder.  Nothing but pain and suffering. This is all due to our choices as human beings.  On the bright side, anyone reaching out for love will be saved in the end(of the world "AS YOU KNOW IT" there will be no more suffereing when he[God] comes).  If you reject love, then it is by your own choice not to be saved.  All you have to do is love :smile:  LOVE IS ALL THAT MATTERS, remember this when the time comes if you havent already realized this by then.  You dont even have to believe in any God, all you have to do is know that love is most important over anything(and by doing this, despite of your own knowledge of it..you are believing in god.)

God = Light
Light = Love
Love = God

peace,
~Kottonmouth~ 

P.S.  I suggest going to http://www.near-death.com for answers concerning such things.  They have a section on the future.  Some of you will appreciate this website, the board there is very welcoming as well, there are some very intuitive people there, some see the future and share their visions.  I sense much wisdom and potential here, many of you are on the right path, i am proud of you, congratulations.

Edited by Kottonmouth (05/14/03 10:40 PM)

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1550106 - 05/15/03 01:43 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I liked your post until I read the last sentence.

Quote:

I sense much wisdom and potential here, many of you are on the right path, i am proud of you, congratulations.



I think that pride is empty, as are congratulations.



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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Adamist]
    #1550376 - 05/15/03 07:29 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

glad you liked it up until the last part, i guess that last comment just makes the rest of what i said irrelevant to you, too bad.  I really do sense wisdom here, and i dont know if all of you really understand the knowledge you hold, i assume you do, but i know damn well there are always those confused people out there.  Like, do you think that mushrooms are just to trip out on?  Wise people know that they are here to find God. That is their purpose in this material world.  My pride may seem to be running high, but man im only telling you because i know damn well.  You can either nod cuz you know already, consider what i said to be true and find out for yourself, or think im a stupid fuck(most choose this option :laugh:)

Edited by Kottonmouth (05/15/03 07:34 AM)

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1550513 - 05/15/03 09:10 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i guess that last comment just makes the rest of what i said irrelevant to you


Not necessarily... just more cautious of your message and intentions.

Quote:

Like, do you think that mushrooms are just to trip out on? Wise people know that they are here to find God.


I don't know any "wise" people. I know people who achieve states of consciousness which are wise, none of which I have seen so far as being permanent. Anyone who claims such I treat with a high sense of doubt because it turns out that most people who say they've found the answers or "the Way" don't know half the fuck they're talking about or are purposely fabricating things to make themselves look wise or intelligent. I don't doubt that such a state of perpetual "awakenness" or wisdom can be achieved... I just think that maybe... one in 500 million people are there permanently. And to go around proclaiming it means that you aren't there, because in the state of eternal wisdom, there is no sense of self, no sense of "me vs you", no concept of "wiser" or "smarter" or any distinctions going on at all. There is just pure being and humility.

Anyways, I didn't mean to seem hostile towards you and I welcome you to the Shroomery. Have a nice stay and please don't try to start any cults... the mods hate competition.  :wink: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Adamist]
    #1550543 - 05/15/03 09:26 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

hmmm......well i'm not sure if i believe that it will be the end of the world or not..but it's still intresting


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1550552 - 05/15/03 09:29 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

It's not so much the end of THE world, but the end of OUR world, I think.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Adamist]
    #1550594 - 05/15/03 09:57 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I have a feeling that 2012 will turn out to be like Y2K or the "harmonic convergence" or whatever that thing was, there was just as much hype back then... a lot of people will be let down when nothing happens.

on the other hand, I'm sure 2012 will be the end of the world for LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE... but not THE end. consider this: in the next couple of decades, most of the baby boomer generation will die off. it will be a new world for that reason alone.

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1550768 - 05/15/03 11:17 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Adamist said: It's not so much the end of THE world, but the end of OUR world, I think.

this is what i was trying to say, the world will not "end", it will just be the end of the world "as we know it"  There will be no more suffering, no more bad vibes, i guess i can sum it up by saying there will be no more misunderstanding, no more battling the ego. Everything will be perfect, nothing but love, perfect bodies, perfect earth, no pollution, everything will be fucking awesome.

you aslo said:

I don't know any "wise" people. I know people who achieve states of consciousness which are wise, none of which I have seen so
far as being permanent. Anyone who claims such I treat with a high sense of doubt because it turns out that most people who say
they've found the answers or "the Way" don't know half the fuck they're talking about or are purposely fabricating things to make
themselves look wise or intelligent. I don't doubt that such a state of perpetual "awakenness" or wisdom can be achieved... I just
think that maybe... one in 500 million people are there permanently. And to go around proclaiming it means that you aren't there,
because in the state of eternal wisdom, there is no sense of self, no sense of "me vs you", no concept of "wiser" or "smarter" or any
distinctions going on at all. There is just pure being and humility.

I dont want to come to this board and sound like i know it all, but i do have to say i think im stuck "thinking" wisely.  I agree that the only real wise people are as you described them, no sense of self.  I do have to say that you are wise in your words, how is that?  I can say, i DO know what im talking about, there is really no way to prove it, so its pointless to try and explain my reasons.  I dont make anything up though, i only say what my heart tells me, and making shit up isnt one of them :laugh:

Kottonmouht 

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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1552474 - 05/15/03 07:58 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

hmm...well i'm still not too sure what i believe on this, anything is possible!


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Adamist]
    #1552710 - 05/15/03 09:56 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Have a nice stay and please don't try to start any cults... the mods hate competition.

OMG that was funny!  :grin:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Invisibletekramrepus
Female User Gallery
Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 2,253
Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1552717 - 05/15/03 09:58 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I have some things to add to this thread.


First off, I am strictly bound by skepticism, and I very rarely believe in something which I have not experienced for myself to be true.

Anything that cannot be directly experienced is an illusion. Not to say the truth of it doesn't exist, but you are not EXPERIENCING the truth of it, you are experiencing the concept of it.

Example, the speed of light is said to be what, 380,000 miles per second, or something like that. This is not directly experienced by me, although I believe it. I am not SURE of it, because I have not directly experienced it. I have only experienced the concept of presented facts of it. Therefore even though it is probably true, what I'm grasping is still not the reality of it, what I'm grasping is illusion.



With that said, no one knows what will happen in 2012 exactly. This is because no one has directly experienced it, as the future has not been available to experience. Future is NOT reality.

However, these are my experiences:

- Less able to concentrate my mind
- My memory has gotten much worse
- My memory and mind are DIRECTLY effected by weather now, wasnt always the case
- More intuitive
- Dreams more intense, reoccuring, and vivid
- Increasing amount of coincidences within the past year
- Days do feel shorter



These cannot rationally be linked to any future happening, but obviously strong changes in my body has been occuring. For better or worse, Im not sure. They are progressing.


Id like to say that I do feel something radical is happening with humanity - but this is not based on future prediction, this is based on my understanding of history and my experience of life now.

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OfflineRob_K
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: tekramrepus]
    #1553517 - 05/16/03 07:20 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Who was the first person to establish the idea of 2012 being significant? It has to come down to one person at the end of the day, all others simply reinforce this idea with their own thoughts.

Expect I'll take flak for this but I'm sceptical.. I'll believe it when I see it.

The whole idea is quite cultist- I hadn't encountered any reference to this idea before I started taking an interest in psychedelics. 99% of the population is probably completely unaware of it. That's not to say they're right, but don't you think if there was more substance to 2012 than speculation, then it would become a more mainstream concern?

Thoughts and ideas.. who knows what's going to happen really?


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

Edited by Rob_K (05/16/03 07:23 AM)

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Offlinesoylent_green
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Rob_K]
    #1553599 - 05/16/03 08:36 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

but don't you think if there was more substance to 2012 than speculation, then it would become a more mainstream concern?






yeah i thought about that too...but mabey people just dont' care cause of the whole y2k bug thing, that never went through, so people might just think it's the same thing...


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1553841 - 05/16/03 11:26 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Exactly. There is no evidence of this 2012 thing happening.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1554259 - 05/16/03 01:57 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

HAhahahahahahahahaa since when has the mainstream known what the fuck was REALLY happening?


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Offlinenubious
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Adamist]
    #1554469 - 05/16/03 03:37 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

since when has the mainstream known what the fuck was REALLY happening?

Hahaha.. I must agree! Prime example: News headlines about two weeks ago in my city --> "New Drug to hit the streets! Ketamine, otherwise known as special K"...

When I heard this I laughed my fuggin ass off!!!! I had first tried Ketamine 3 years previous to this report.. Hahaha.. it still makes me giggle...

What angers me is that now everyone and their dog thinks they're Mr. KnowItAll on the shit.. The other day at work a guy heard the word "horse tranquillizer" and responded immediately with "Oh yeah, that's ketamine!" .... I had some words then for him... OH did I have some words...


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: nubious]
    #1554509 - 05/16/03 03:54 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

only one way to find out, sit back, smoke your weed, and wait 9 years.

___________________________________________________________
Id like to say that I do feel something radical is happening with humanity - but this is not based on future prediction, this is based on my understanding of history and my experience of life now. ---Supermarket
___________________________________________________________

this is because right now we are in a spiritual awakening.  the end is near, and god is reaching out to all of us, some describe it as evolving into a higher level of consciousness because of being in the milky way or whatever the fuck somebody said earlier in this thread.  If you havent noticed, people are a lot more sensitive by the day.  Its not just happening to you.  But yeah, it doesnt even fucking matter, when the time comes i will be smoking a joint till my very last breath. :laugh:


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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Adamist]
    #1554940 - 05/16/03 07:43 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

HAhahahahahahahahaa since when has the mainstream known what the fuck was REALLY happening?

What? Iv'e heard this 2012 thing for a long time now. I used to post on Giasphere 2012 board before I came here. The fact is that thre is NO evidence to support this theroy. It was all started by one person btw.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineYou_are_God
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1554945 - 05/16/03 07:46 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

We all want proof of something and obviously proof of anything significant happening at any time is nonexistent. I could however type a few pages on just why I feel something of major spiritual importance and change will occur soon on the planet earth. The exact nature of this "change" cannot be fully known on every level....2012 seems logical but I do not think things work on our human schedule therefore I think it will just be around that time...but just as easily could be tommorow or 50 years from now. The change is happening as we speak just as more and more of us become 'spiritually awakened' (however you want to define that). You are the 100th monkey
Peace

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1554957 - 05/16/03 07:56 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Ever heard of the book 1984?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1554959 - 05/16/03 07:59 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

It was all started by one person btw.

It was all started by the Mayans, and they are not exactly one person.

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OfflineRob_K
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1554971 - 05/16/03 08:05 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

so the mayans happened all to have exactly the same idea at the same time? seems a little unlikely. Someone had to be the first to conclude "2012.. that's when it's going to happen" and then go on to to tell everyone else. That's like saying Microsoft was started by America. Ok ok bad example but you see what I mean..


--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Rob_K]
    #1554974 - 05/16/03 08:08 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

haha yeah I see what you're saying. Let's say then that whoever developed their cyclical calendar was the one(s) who started it.

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1555067 - 05/16/03 09:03 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

So a calendar ends on 2012, big deal. It doesn't mean anything.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: soylent_green]
    #1555235 - 05/16/03 10:43 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Greetings friends, brothers.. I have not much time right now to add my thoughts on this topic, but I will point you towards a site that should give you a *general* idea of what it is all about...while maintaining the flexibility of both scenarios of consciousness. Love and Light.

http://www.2013.com


--------------------

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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1555247 - 05/16/03 10:51 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

By the way...the date 2012 was not decided on starting at some arbitrary point. It is based on a precise calender of celestial events, which the Mayans are famous for. 2012 is the estimated time when our Solar System was perceived to enter fully into what is known as the "Photon Belt" - A spiral of multidimensional light that links many stars in the Pleiadian system, Orion, and our own Solar System.

Just like Protons and Neutrons, Planets and Moons.. the Stars and Solar Systems all orbit each other. Our Solar System enters into the Photon Band approximately every 24,000 years. We are immersed in this high-frequency light for about 2,000 years. We first entered the beginning rays of the Photon Band during "Harmonic Convergence" in 1987, and we will be fully immersed within it by winter solstice..December 21st, 2012.



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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1555260 - 05/16/03 10:58 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

All I'm sayin iz that the future can't be known.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1555269 - 05/16/03 11:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

True...but the passing of celestial events can be calculated and compared with past events, and the most 'likely' scenario based on the variables... just like in Science.


--------------------

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1555305 - 05/16/03 11:14 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

You're right about no one knowing what will happen. I don't plan on anything out of the ordinary on 12/22/12. I think it is possible but I'm not going to do anything differently or be disappointed if nothing happens.

That being said, you are completely wrong about the theory originating with one person. The Mayans came up with the idea that it was the end of the fourth world, after which the fifth would be created by our thoughts. The McKenna brother's independantly came up with the same day with some weird ass fractal theories. And astronomy tells us that it is a very rare celestial event that happens about once every, fuck, I dont remember, 41,050 years or something. I wouldn't call all of that "one person's idea."

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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1555336 - 05/16/03 11:29 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

And the aliens all agree that transfiguration is upon our world, and we are way past due for the next stage of evolution which in a nutshell is space travel, world unity, and otherworldly interaction.. which involves every citizen, being a galactic citizen, to take responsibility for all their actions and become fully aware of the eternal I AM presence within all things.  :grin: 


--------------------

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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1555367 - 05/16/03 11:45 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

wow my goal in life now is to stay alive until december 21 2012 and smoke some dmt and see what happens.the mayans learned how to read the stars i would never doubt them. im mean they predicted the polar shift to an exact date just by looking at the stars thousands of years ago. they were way more advanced than western civalization

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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: buckwheat]
    #1555437 - 05/17/03 12:25 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

polar shift?
and do the mayans predict what will happen 2012?


--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather

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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1555507 - 05/17/03 12:50 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

there are better sites out there but this all could find right now

the great mayan calender

and heres some mckenna this is a great articule
time zero and language

Edited by mindcandy (05/17/03 12:53 AM)

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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: buckwheat]
    #1555897 - 05/17/03 08:39 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

polar shift?


  Well this is when the Iron ore of the earth shift causing the magnetic poles of the earth to flip from north to south >  South to North
this is a proven event that will happen because it has been observed on the other planets in our solar system.  As for Dec 12 2002  is this the time when microsoft release an operating system that is fully secure, compatable and dosent crash.
That would be a world wide changing event. :grin: 


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.

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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1556169 - 05/17/03 12:34 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"polar shift?"
---------------

I have it somewhere in my head, that while studying some geology, the poles have moved (magnetic poles... the planet didn't physically shift position) before. It's in the geological record... ie- in the rocks. I can't remember which rocks reflected it... Perhaps... magnetite? I can't put my finger on it right now.

However, I'm under the impression that it has happened in the past... so I'd say, it's possible for it to happen again in the future... .. Like an ice age... BBbbrr rrr rr r r r.... Another is bound to happen eventually...



--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..


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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1556188 - 05/17/03 12:50 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I don't plan on anything out of the ordinary on 12/22/12. I think it is possible but I'm not going to do anything differently or be disappointed if nothing happens.
-------------------------

You quoted the right date there....  Dec 21 ( as it is talked about in all the articles I've seen )...  is the end of the period...  THe new, then, begins on the 22 nd  ...on...... I suppose many kind of knew that intuitively....  but I don't recall anyone mentionning it that the 22 is the date to write on your calendars.






That being said, you are completely wrong about the theory originating with one person. The Mayans came up with the idea that it was the end of the fourth world, after which the fifth would be created by our thoughts. The McKenna brother's independantly came up with the same day with some weird ass fractal theories. And astronomy tells us that it is a very rare celestial event that happens about once every, fuck, I dont remember, 41,050 years or something. I wouldn't call all of that "one person's idea."
----------------------

EXACTLY!  :grin:

This is going to be "something" because it has become reflected through more than one source.


It's like the discovery of calculus...  two independant sources...  same thing that describes some environmental characteristics ...  must have been  "something"  ...  Thanx to NEWTON & LEIBNITZ 

:smile:

 


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1556703 - 05/17/03 07:17 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Well i see it happening drastically. A couple examples

More and more commen in the media these days you'll see psychic/consciousness excerpts in many and more reappearing forms

1. The simpsons episode with lisa land (i forget the name of the episode star) a log goes speeding toward the town of springfield, the guy says, "Now come back to me", he says later, "Oh yeah, i don't have super powers, ... yet ."

2. (first off i just want to say i don't watch much tv, but every once in a while ill over hear something that intrigues me on the tv), the subjects of super-powers ive heard on different seris at least 3 or 4 times

3. Simpsons has many psychic parts, like when tony hawk uses teleknesis, when homer flys.

4. One day im eating cereal and i look on the top of the box and it says, "Once you raise you conscieous level, you can't lower it" What the fuck does consceiousness have to do with cherrios?

right now i can't think or more example's but there all around us!

What i mean by drastically is that 2004 to 2013 will be the years of drasctic evolution, each year being another strain connecting, until 2013. I think that some of it will start in 2003 too.


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1556871 - 05/17/03 08:54 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

WTF does that have to do with this discussion?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1556873 - 05/17/03 08:57 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

The Mayans came up with the idea that it was the end of the fourth world, after which the fifth would be created by our thoughts.

Oh I'm sorry, one MAYAN came up with the idea.  :shocked:  :tongue:  :grin:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1557278 - 05/18/03 01:29 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Well i see it happening drastically. A couple examples

More and more commen in the media these days you'll see psychic/consciousness excerpts in many and more reappearing forms

1. The simpsons episode with lisa land (i forget the name of the episode star) a log goes speeding toward the town of springfield, the guy says, "Now come back to me", he says later, "Oh yeah, i don't have super powers, ... yet ."

2. (first off i just want to say i don't watch much tv, but every once in a while ill over hear something that intrigues me on the tv), the subjects of super-powers ive heard on different seris at least 3 or 4 times

3. Simpsons has many psychic parts, like when tony hawk uses teleknesis, when homer flys.

4. One day im eating cereal and i look on the top of the box and it says, "Once you raise you conscieous level, you can't lower it" What the fuck does consceiousness have to do with cherrios?

right now i can't think or more example's but there all around us!

What i mean by drastically is that 2004 to 2013 will be the years of drasctic evolution, each year being another strain connecting, until 2013. I think that some of it will start in 2003 too.





ive been noticing a lot of things on tv too. especially comercials.and its also funny that the matrix trilogy came right around this time

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OfflineRob_K
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1557388 - 05/18/03 05:04 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

So because there are superheros on TV and the simpsons tackles such weighty subjects as telekenisis and psychics then it must mean the human race is evolving faster? I think you've been eating too much consiousness-raising cereal my friend!  :wink: 

These are not convincing arguments for there being any substance to 2012..



--------------------
-{ divined from the mind }--

My music

Edited by Rob_K (05/18/03 05:05 AM)

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1557886 - 05/18/03 02:12 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I sense some bitterness within you...  :grin: 

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1557900 - 05/18/03 02:21 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

the simplest way to say this, without relating to science(an organized system of ignorance, all it does is look at the spiritual in a scientific point of view) is this is the beginning of the end. All the evolution shit you are talking about is when God comes(if you like the bibles Interpretation..."the second coming") in the name of peace, while all this war shit is going on. The war we are experiencing now is just the tip of the iceberg. It will get much shittier, worse than the great depression. BUT in the end of it all, when he comes to "save us"(or when the world goes through evolution, whichever way you want to look at it) there will be no more suffering, and the world will be fucking perfect, no need for a fancy car, because you can travel wherever you want by thought. It will be the shit, just wait and see, but first you gotta stay strong through all the bullshit yet to come, it will be hard.

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1557909 - 05/18/03 02:29 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)


Well if people believe what a majority of people believe (this 2012 thing), then they are fools. Just because a Mayan calandar ends in 2012, doesn't mean something will happen then, in fact, that's a redickulus assumption imo. The Mayans could have updated their calandar later on, but unfortunately for them, they no longer exist, so they can't.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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InvisibleLana
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1557956 - 05/18/03 02:48 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I think KRS One said it best, "You should read your bible astrologically, for the new testament is really old astronomy:  :smile:   

A question I have is this.  The Mayans based their theories from astrological events.  Ok, no problem there, but over a few thousand years, don't stars, planets, etc, fall slightly out of alignment?  For example, we don't have 365 days in a year.  Technically its like 365 and 1/4 days,  thats why every 4 years is a leap year to make up for that extra day?   

Point is, how accurate is the mayan calander?

Lana 
 


--------------------
Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products
http://www.MycoSupply.com

The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies.
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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Lana]
    #1557971 - 05/18/03 02:54 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)


Hummm...........I wonder when the Egyptian calandar ended.  :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1558007 - 05/18/03 03:13 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

The search for "scientific" proof outside of experience will lead you nowhere. There is proof, it's just not obvious. Humans have a very short-term memory in terms of their history on this planet.

If you want proof, you will find it. If you want predictions, I can give those. However, you'll be barking up the wrong tree. The transformation is a personal one, and focussing on physical cataclysms and proof that fits within a narrow band of scientific reasoning is pointless.

Some of us are as certain of a 2012 transformation as the fact that the sun will rise tomorrow. We have felt the energy for months now, in our own ways, and it's getting ever-slightly stronger by the day.

When a student has learned all his lessons in 3rd grade, where does he go? Those who are ready, know. They no longer fit within this world of petty materialism, and they're anxious to move on to learn other things about existence. I have at times felt "ready", only to get caught up in yet more karmic debt. Thus it's better to simply to work on your own progress and not worry about the details of what happens when.

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1558014 - 05/18/03 03:16 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)


I don't understand your point (in relation to my post).

Okay, if this 2012 theroy is true, how did the Mayans know the future?



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineFatNug
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1558059 - 05/18/03 03:36 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

The mayan calender is probibly the most accurate celestial calender in history. It is not the fact THAT the calender ended, but rather the reason WHY it ended. It ended because although they could predicet EVERY EVENT in the cosmos with amazing accuracy, from some 4000 years prior to their own civilization, to 1000 years after their civilization, they couldn't see past december 21 2012. They felt it was the end of the "fifth world."a change in all things. Right now the sun is in it's "fifth cycle" just as the mayans had predicted it is more active now than we've ever recorded. The Earths frequency or "schumann resonance" has nearly doubled. Our planet is vibrating faster than ever before.
I don't know exactally what I believe in all of this, but it would be sheer ignorance to just blindly dismiss the words of one of the most brilliant cultures to ever grace the face of this planet.

http://www.math.sfu.ca/histmath/calendars/mayan.html

http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/mayan_calendar/



--------------------
================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1558080 - 05/18/03 03:49 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

The Mayans were aware (either by themselves or given to them by a second party) of the cycles here on Earth, and the cycles within cycles. How they got the information? I guess I have no answer for you.

As a side note to this discussion:
It's interesting that the Mayans had names for the time periods of 300,000 years, 3 million years, and 63 million years. Counting back from the inception of their calendar, these 3 "dates" mark 3 significant events in Earth history. 63 millions years being roughly when the last of the major dinosaurs went extinct. 3 million years being how long Earth has been inhabited by human-type beings. 300,000 years being how long (roughly) homo sapiens have been on Earth. Why were these time periods so meaningful to them as to give them names?

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1558104 - 05/18/03 04:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

homo sapiens have been on Earth. Why were these time periods so meaningful to them as to give them names?

Our current civalization has done the same thing.

So the Mayans couldn't predict the future anylonger and stopped. That doesn't mean that something is going to happen in 2012.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1558125 - 05/18/03 04:15 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Well if people believe what a majority of people believe (this 2012 thing), then they are fools. Just because a Mayan calandar ends in 2012, doesn't mean something will happen then, in fact, that's a redickulus assumption imo. The Mayans could have updated their calandar later on, but unfortunately for them, they no longer exist, so they can't.




its not just the end of the calender. heres an excert from here mayan calender

For early Mesoamerican skywatchers, the slow approach of the winter solstice sun to the Sacred Tree was seen as a critical process, the culmination of which was surely worthy of being called 13.0.0.0.0, the end of a World Age. The channel would then be open through the winter solstice doorway, up the Sacred Tree, the Xibalba be , to the center of the churning heavens, the Heart of Sky.

and


The Sacred Tree

We are still trying to answer these questions: What is so important about the winter solstice of 2012 and, exactly how were calculations made so accurately, considering that precession should make them exceedingly difficult?

If we make a standard horoscope chart for December 21st, 2012 A.D., nothing very unusual appears. In this way I was led astray in my search until Linda Schele provided a clue in the recent book Maya Cosmos. Probably the most exciting breakthrough in this book is her identification of the astronomical meaning of the Mayan Sacred Tree. Drawing from an impressive amount of iconographic evidence, and generously sharing the process by which she arrived at her discovery, the Sacred Tree is found to be none other than the crossing point of the ecliptic with the band of the Milky Way. Indeed, the Milky Way seems to have played an important role in Mayan imagery. For example, an incised bone from 8th century Tikal depicts a long sinking canoe containing various deities. This is a picture of the night sky and the canoe is the Milky Way, sinking below the horizon as the night progresses, and carrying with it deities representing the nearby constellations. The incredible Mayan site of Palenque is filled with Sacred Tree motifs and references to astronomical events. In their book Forest of Kings, Schele and Freidel suggested that the Sacred Tree referred to the ecliptic. Apparently that was only part of the picture, for the Sacred Tree that Pacal ascends in death is more than just the ecliptic, it is the sacred doorway to the underworld. The crossing point of Milky Way and ecliptic is this doorway and represents the sacred source and origin. In the following diagram of the well known sarcophagus carving, notice that the Milky Way tree serves as an extension of Pacal's umbilicus. The umbilicus is a human being's entrance into life, and entrance into death as well:



We may also remember at this point that the tzolkin calendar is said to spring from the Sacred Tree. The Sacred Tree is, in fact, at the center of the entire corpus of Mayan Creation Myths. We should definitely explore the nature of this astronomical feature.

The first question that came up for me was as follows. Since Lord (Ahau) Pacal is, by way of divine kingship, equated with the sun, and he is portrayed "entering" the Sacred Tree on his famous sarcophagus lid, on what day does the sun come around to conjunct the crossing point of ecliptic and Milky Way? This would be an important date. In the pre-dawn skies of this date, the Milky Way would be seen to arch overhead from the region of Polaris (Heart of Sky) and would point right at where the sun rises. This (and the corollary date 6 months later) is the only date when the Sun/Lord could jump from the ecliptic track and travel the Milky Way up and around the vault of heaven to the region of Polaris, there to enter the "Heart of Sky." It should be mentioned that 1300 years ago, during the zenith of Palenque's glory, Polaris was much less an exact "Pole Star" than it is now. Schele demonstrates that it wasn't a Pole Star that the Maya mythologized in this regard, it was the unmarked polar "dark region" symbolizing death and the underworld around which everything was observed to revolve. Life revolves around death - a characteristically Mayan belief. The dates on which the sun conjuncts the "Sacred Tree" are thus very important. These dates will change with precession. Schele doesn't pursue this line of reasoning, however, and doesn't even mention that these dates might be significant. If we go back to 755 A.D., we find that the sun conjuncts the Sacred Tree on December 3rd. I should point out here that the Milky Way is a wide band, and perhaps a 10-day range of dates should be considered.

To start with, however, I use the exact center of the Milky Way band that one finds on star charts, known as the "Galactic Equator" (not to be confused with Galactic Center). Where the Galactic Equator crosses the ecliptic in Sagittarius just happens to be where the dark rift in the Milky Way begins. This is a dark bifurcation in the Milky Way caused by interstellar dust clouds. To observers on earth, it appears as a dark road which begins near the ecliptic and stretches along the Milky Way up towards Polaris. The Maya today are quite aware of this feature; the Quich? Maya call it xibalba be (the "road to Xibalba") and the Chorti Maya call it the "camino de Santiago". In Dennis Tedlock's translation of the Popol Vuh, we find that the ancient Maya called it the "Black Road". The Hero Twins Hunahpu and Xbalanque must journey down this road to battle the Lords of Xibalba. (Tedlock 334, 358). Furthermore, what Schele has identified as the Sacred Tree was known to the ancient Quich? simply as "Crossroads."

This celestial feature was not marginal in ancient Mayan thought and is still rec- ognized even today. In terms of how this feature was mythologized, it seems that when a planet, the sun, or the moon entered the dark cleft of the Milky Way in Sagittarius (which happens to be the exact center of the Milky Way, the Galactic Equator), entrance to the underworld road was possible, which could then take the journeyer up to the Heart of Sky. Shamanic vision rites were probably involved in this scenario. In the Yucatan, underground caves were ritual places used by shaman to journey to the underworld. Schele explains that "Mayan mythology identifies the Road to Xibalba as going through a cave" (Forest of Kings, 209). Here we have a metaphorical reference to the "dark rift" in the Milky Way by way of its terrestrial counterpart, a syncretism between earth and sky which is characteristic of Mayan thinking. Above all, what is becoming apparent from the corpus of Mayan Creation Myths is that creation seems to have taken place at a celestial crossroads - the crossing point of ecliptic and Milky Way.

To clarify this ever growing picture, we should stop here and plot out some charts. In addition to the detailed star maps from Norton's 2000.0 Star Atlas which allowed me to pinpoint the crossing point of Galactic Equator and ecliptic, I use EZCosmos to plot these positions3. What I found answers the question of why the Maya chose the winter solstice of 2012, a problem seemingly avoided by astronomers and Mayanists alike. While it is true that the sun conjuncts the Sacred Tree on December 3rd in the year 755 A.D., over the centuries precession has caused the conjunction date to approach the winter solstice. So, how close are we to perfect conjunction today? Exactly when might we expect the winter solstice sun to conjunct the crossing point of Galactic Equator and ecliptic - the Mayan Sacred Tree? Any astronomer will tell you that, presently, the Milky Way crosses the ecliptic through the constellation of Sagittarius and this area is rich in nebulae and high density objects. In fact, where the Milky Way crosses the ecliptic in Sagittarius also happens to be the direction of the Galactic Center.4





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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1558137 - 05/18/03 04:22 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

homo sapiens have been on Earth. Why were these time periods so meaningful to them as to give them names?

Our current civalization has done the same thing.

So the Mayans couldn't predict the future anylonger and stopped. That doesn't mean that something is going to happen in 2012.




how can you doubt the mayans many ppl have given you plenty of evidence.if they calculated future events why are you dismising theyre spiritual belifes too

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OfflineMurex
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: buckwheat]
    #1558201 - 05/18/03 05:05 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

how can you doubt the mayans many ppl have given you plenty of evidence.if they calculated future events why are you dismising theyre spiritual belifes too

So be it.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Offline11polakie11
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1558246 - 05/18/03 05:39 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

speculations. which are fine, but its not happening right NOW. understanding? fine. worrying? well, you are your own mess.

so what if nothing happens?
so what if something happens?

still depends on how you look at it, and getting lost in uncertanties is the same thing people have been doing since their existence on this planet.


--------------------
-i am waiting for my boyfriend/compainion-
_I wish i were Aeon Flux_

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: 11polakie11]
    #1558482 - 05/18/03 07:45 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

The Mayan calendar doesn't "end" on 12/22/12, it just rolls over to the next baktun.
their calendar has been hijacked by a bunch of nuts like McKenna to push their crazy theories. the Mayans said nothing about entering a higher state of existence or time zero or anything like that, these ideas have only come along in the last few decades from the same people who got all exited about the "harmanic convergence"... this is really sad because the Mayans really did have advanced knowledge about astronomy, but when nothing happens in 2012, they will be discredited. it's disrespectful to the Mayans for McKenna and co. to attach their little theories to the great Mayan astronomical calendar, which they don't even understand.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1558592 - 05/18/03 08:17 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

then whats the point of xibalba.it has nothing to do with mckenna.those are mayan ideas from some records did they make this too?

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1558634 - 05/18/03 08:27 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Our current civalization has done the same thing.

Yeah but the Mayans didn't exactly have carbon-14 dating for those dinosaur/human fossils. What this means is that they either named these time periods completely by chance or that the Mayans had much more knowledge of human history than archeologists/historians say.

Ponder.  :grin: 

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OfflineDrubuShrume
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1558809 - 05/18/03 09:06 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

the histrory of Earth is found within the shrooms... just listen to the mumbling in the background, and you should feel it.


--------------------
AH HA....

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1558932 - 05/18/03 10:09 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

"by chance or that the Mayans had much more knowledge of human history than archeologists/historians say"


ooooh,

the evil archeologists! it must be a conspiracy to keep the human race ignorant to.....REALITY!!!


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Murex]
    #1559029 - 05/18/03 11:01 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Another extreme is that we will smoothly transcend into a higher state of existence. The fourth, and then the fifth dimension. This means our astral as well as our physical bodies will undergo rapid change. Our DNA will supposedly mutate, or evolve from a 2-strand double-helix to a 12 strand tetrahedron. Supposedly this process is currently underway.




Thats what it has to do with! As the guy said in the post earlier


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: buckwheat]
    #1559570 - 05/19/03 08:29 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

what is that picture supposed to prove?

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Anonymous

Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1559768 - 05/19/03 10:43 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

lol, that's not what I meant at all. It's not a conspiracy. Rather, they just don't have enough evidence yet to conclude anything of that nature by scientific standards.

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Lana]
    #1559927 - 05/19/03 12:03 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

A question I have is this. The Mayans based their theories from astrological events. Ok, no problem there, but over a few thousand years, don't stars, planets, etc, fall slightly out of alignment? For example, we don't have 365 days in a year. Technically its like 365 and 1/4 days, thats why every 4 years is a leap year to make up for that extra day?

Point is, how accurate is the mayan calander?


Lana.. no, the stars don't fall out of alignment. The Gregoran Calender (The one we use) is the only thing that is slightly out of alignment, thus the leap year..correct. Stars, Galaxies, Planets, etc, are very predictable and follow a certain orbit unless acted on by an outside force. (cough)

The Mayan's calendar is amazingly accurate. They knew Venus' movement around the Sun takes 584 days. They knew 149 lunar cycles takes 4,400 days. They calculated the Earth year to a very accurate 365.2420 days. The astronomers used detailed astrological tables called a codex. The tables were used exclusively by the Mayan astronomers to predict the solstices and equinoxes, the path of the planets in our solar system, the cycles of Venus and Mars, and other celestial phenomena, and were much more accurate than the system we currently use. They either had incredible technology or someone told them.

There were two calendars: Solar Calendar - 365 day years, 12 months of 30 days, 13th month of 5 days.
Sacred Calendar - 260 day year. 5 months of 52 days.


--------------------

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1559945 - 05/19/03 12:11 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the rain, water-bearer. :smile:


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: Adamist]
    #1559976 - 05/19/03 12:19 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

I like to think of it as wind, stirring up and spreading the seeds  :laugh: 


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Offlinenubious
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: ]
    #1562115 - 05/20/03 12:43 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

What this means is that they either named these time periods completely by chance or that the Mayans had much more knowledge of human history than archeologists/historians say.

Nothing's by chance... it may seem so, but there are forces at work on other layers of reality which are incomprehendable for most, and even harder to find for those who are looking.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: nubious]
    #1562409 - 05/20/03 06:09 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Has anyone read Terence and Dennis McKenna's book "The Invisible Landscape"? I just started reading it. This book seems to cover a lot of ground about 2012.

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: 2012...a little info? [Re: nubious]
    #1564945 - 05/21/03 02:07 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Nothing's by chance... it may seem so, but there are forces at work on other layers of reality which are incomprehendable for most, and even harder to find for those who are looking.



This is the symbiotic conclusion I came to as well while both hemispheres of my mind were in blissful union. Awareness of the divine plan is sweet nectar, indeed...


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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