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Invisibleunam sanctum
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Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Poid]
    #15413592 - 11/23/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Christians are not tolerant.




I never claimed they were

I was referring to this community, the so called enlightened people
who preach tolerance and respect... what ever happened to practicing
what you preach


Why would you expect people who preach tolerance and respect to be tolerant and respectful of those who are intolerant and disrespectful?

Obviously, the people here who preach tolerance and respect feel that only those who are respectful deserve it... there's no sense in being tolerant and respectful of assholes, and the people here who preach tolerance and respect acknowledge this.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
what ever happened to practicing what you preach




]I dunno, what happened to it? The people here who preach tolerance and respect of those who are deserving of it are practicing what they preach... there is nothing hypocritical about being intolerant/disrespectful of others who you deem to be unworthy of your tolerance/respect, especially if you don't preach that absolutely everyone (including intolerant/disrespectful assholes) deserves tolerance/respect.





I'm not sure you understand what tolerance is.


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OfflineChemical_Sandman
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Mind Transcribing]
    #15413618 - 11/23/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mind Transcribing said:
Quote:

Caine said:
Religion and science are just two ways to try to describe the exact same thing!
There's no reason why someone can't be both logical and religious. :nonono:



Wait...what?





"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"

Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941


--------------------


"It is not a conspiracy, don't call it a conspiracy. It is all out in the open and it stands on the ignorance, apathy and stupidity of the American people that is the foundation upon which the New World Order is built." --William Cooper


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Offlinesunset_mission
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #15413624 - 11/23/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Religion, as the term is used, explains nothing close to what science attempts to plumb. Science concerns itself with the tangible, attempting to validate, explain, observe, examine, and determine various facets, laws, and phenomenon in and of existence, at least in regards to things which are tangible.

Religion indoctrinates and creates various systems and dogmas and essentially placing human distortions and takes on phenomenon no human could precisely determine, presenting it as unquestionable truth sauteed in questionable fairy tales and using this as the foundation to which the restrictive chains of the respective institution may be applied to govern the lives of its followers.

The accurate term for the study of unseen realms and non-ordinary phenomenon which exist beyond our scope of perception would be metaphysics. Science has its place and its effective uses, as does metaphysics. If one were to try and penetrate metaphysical phenomenon through scientifically-oriented means certainly a breakthrough would be reached.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15413625 - 11/23/11 03:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
it is an accurate statement, firstly not all scientists are atheist or agnostic, there are a great number of christians that are scientists.


I know this, and don't see the relevance it has to the claim that religion and science describe the exact same thing.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
second science and religion do try and explain things like to origins of life, various phenomenon, and other things we've had little understanding of in the past.


Sure, there are a few things that both science and religion describe, but in general, they do not describe the exact same thing. One describes reality, the other describes fiction.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

One can't be both a logical and religious person because religion requires faith... faith is irrational (i.e. illogical), and a person who has faith is illogical.




faith is required in science just as it is with the religion of atheism
and just as it is in the other religions.


There is no "religion of atheism".

How is faith required in science?


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
you seem to be like many others
and under the impression that a person cant believe in god and believe in
evolution...


I have no idea why I seem like I'm under that impression to you... I'm not.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
not all christians believe the bible to be 100% fact, many
understand that science has the upper hand when it comes to the
explanations that people seek.


So what? Just because they can be logical in some areas doesn't mean that they are generally logical people.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
do all christians with medical conditions 
sit by and wait for god to heal them of their cancer or hemorrhoids or do
they seek out the medical professionals? would that not suggest that they
also have faith in the sciences, sciences that are often times as flawed
as religion...


I don't think that would suggest that they have faith in science, because they are aware of the evidence which supports the science that eases their ailments. And they are aware that others have been successfully cured by the treatments given by medical professionals... this isn't faith, it's reasoning.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Doctards have the faith that they've made the right
diagnosis...


Not necessarily, and even if they did, that wouldn't say anything about science itself. As you said, some scientists are religious... this fact says nothing about science itself.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...prescribed the right treatments and pills and yet nearly
300,000 people die each year as a result of these doctards screwing it up


I'm sure that, before those people died, they were told that the treatments they received aren't 100% safe. Doctors are supposed to let their patients be aware of any risks involved in the treatments they receive. If a person dies after being aware of the risks, how is that the doctor's fault? If the doctor is aware that a treatment is unsafe, how is it that he has faith that the treatment will be successful?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisibleuber_aj
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus *DELETED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15413632 - 11/23/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by uber_aj

Reason for deletion: .



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: unam sanctum]
    #15413633 - 11/23/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What makes you think that?


sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own; the act of allowing something.

Where did I write something which showed that I don't understand that this is the definition of tolerance? :confused:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: sunset_mission]
    #15413648 - 11/23/11 03:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sunset_mission said:
Religion, as the term is used, explains nothing close to what science attempts to plumb. Science concerns itself with the tangible, attempting to validate, explain, observe, examine, and determine various facets, laws, and phenomenon in and of existence, at least in regards to things which are tangible.




so why then do Dawkins, Feynman and many others try to disprove the
existence of god, does this mean they arent actually scientists?

Quote:

Religion indoctrinates




as does science, just as any other religion there are many sects, some
believe special relativity, the string theory, abiogenesis while others
do not and there's plenty of infighting between them


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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15413666 - 11/23/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Religion indoctrinates




as does science...


I've never seen a scientific article that "preaches" its message in the same way that religious writings do.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...just as any other religion there are many sects, some
believe special relativity, the string theory, abiogenesis while others
do not and there's plenty of infighting between them


Different areas of science collaborate with each other, whereas different sects of religion oppose each other... not very similar IMO. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Caine]
    #15413677 - 11/23/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Caine said:
Religion and science are just two ways to try to describe the exact same thing!
There's no reason why someone can't be both logical and religious. :nonono:





yes but the roads they take to get there are black and white


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: uber_aj]
    #15413681 - 11/23/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

uber_aj said:
Oh come on Pris, having a scheduled interview/debate/argument with another adult is not the same as showing up at a campus or church and shouting at passing-by strangers that they're going to Hell.




isnt it? isnt it the same when it's a TV series where Dawkins shows up at
churches as well as offices in order to spread his word, just because we
dont see him speaking to the congregation doesnt mean he doesnt, just
because there arent hundreds of videos of self righteous atheists
screaming down christians doesnt mean it doesnt happen.



more from the atheist evangelist



Quote:

One is private communication between parties interested in the topic (regardless of how heated it gets), the other is either a poor attempt at flagrant, fear-based persuasion, or it's attention whoring.




is Dawkins alleged interview not more of the same sort of attention
whoring, this was made for TV, complete with a film crew, far from
being private


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Offlinesunset_mission
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15413685 - 11/23/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

sunset_mission said:
Religion, as the term is used, explains nothing close to what science attempts to plumb. Science concerns itself with the tangible, attempting to validate, explain, observe, examine, and determine various facets, laws, and phenomenon in and of existence, at least in regards to things which are tangible.




so why then do Dawkins, Feynman and many others try to disprove the
existence of god, does this mean they arent actually scientists?




"God" is a concept that is in and of/relating to existence, however it is not tangible (though at one point DNA and atoms and other particles were not tangible or known to us either). There are no "scientific" means or experiments to prove or disprove "God" in the religious sense. As I stated before pouring your efforts into attempting to prove or disprove an entity that humanity does not have the means to comprehend or come close to penetrating is silly. They are very much so scientists (obviously) approaching a touchy subject from their own standpoint.

Quote:

Quote:

Religion indoctrinates




as does science, just as any other religion there are many sects, some
believe special relativity, the string theory, abiogenesis while others
do not and there's plenty of infighting between them




Religious doctrines and scientific areas of study/theory are not necessarily one and the same. That there are various schools of differing thought that lead to disagreements is similar in both science and religion, I suppose.


Edited by sunset_mission (11/23/11 04:05 PM)


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: realfuzzhead] * 2
    #15413710 - 11/23/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You require faith in science because all science relies on human perception, which science has proven isn't really 100% accurate.

You have to put faith in the idea that what you're seeing is real or none of it works, because you really have no way of actually knowing.


--------------------


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15413729 - 11/23/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

AnonO said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
yeah... we see how enlightening psychedelics and education are




the problem with religion, and christians in particular (because they're everywhere), is they believe CRAZY shit. not only that, but sometimes the crazy shit they believe, causes them to do crazy things.





crazy shit like the NWO, the Government did 9/11,  secret sects of people
running the world, aliens abducting people and probing their butts, space
worms, chemtrails, 2012, NASA missions were faked, etc...?

you're right, crazy people are everywhere and they dont have to be christians
to ignore reason, logic and facts




It is true that crazy people are a universal amongst us, but not too many of these people affect public policy. When a tinfoil hat wearing  deluded person makes a run for office, they're written off immediately except the minute minority which comprises their supporters. When someone like Newton Gingrich does so, they get affection by their demographic, which is large enough to garner public attention (and money).

Religion (or any belief for that matter) is fine with me so long as someone isn't trying to dictate how I should live my life.

Also, just by looking at our Congress it appears evident that there is a sizable population of irrational zealots influencing public policy around their own theological and personal beliefs (and the belief of their lobbyist "friends").

I will agree though, before you make the argument, that one one does not need to be religious to be evil, ill willed, or corrupt.

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Do all christians with medical conditions sit by and wait for god to heal them of their cancer or hemorrhoids or do
they seek out the medical professionals?




Most definitely not, but this one did.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
the first of a 7 part preaching session from an atheist






Anyone making a public statement is preaching by its essential definition. It's most often applied to sermons, but any public proclamation of any belief is preaching. Just sayin'.


--------------------
]


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Poid]
    #15413732 - 11/23/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Religion indoctrinates




as does science...


I've never seen a scientific article that "preaches" its message in the same way that religious writings do.




dont they? are we not told that there are certain laws regarding science, laws of physics just as there are laws of god


Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...just as any other religion there are many sects, some
believe special relativity, the string theory, abiogenesis while others
do not and there's plenty of infighting between them


Different areas of science collaborate with each other, whereas different sects of religion oppose each other... not very similar IMO. :shrug:




one group is currently protesting the current discovery of a particle
traveling faster than light, saying that their prophet, Einstein is right
that's not cooperation, that's opposition. they question the validity
through various means such as the substrate it was fired through, the
synchronization of clocks, anything to say that the other is wrong and
nothing can travel faster than light


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15413748 - 11/23/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:

Anyone making a public statement is preaching by its essential definition. It's most often applied to sermons, but any public proclamation of any belief is preaching. Just sayin'.





I agree... butit's not as though the scenario that uber_aj put to me isnt unheard of





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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: propensity]
    #15413779 - 11/23/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

propensity said:
You require faith in science because all science relies on human perception...


That does not follow...

Faith is the firm belief in something for which there is no proof... there is no widely accepted theory in science for which there is no strong evidence, and scientists don't firmly believe in any theory in the same way that the religious firmly believe in God. Just because scientists depend on their perceptions to formulate theories doesn't mean that there is any faith involved.


Quote:

propensity said:
...which science has proven isn't really 100% accurate.


What is the relevance of our perceptions not being 100% accurate? Scientists are aware of this when formulating theories, it isn't as if they have faith that their perceptions are 100% accurate.


Quote:

propensity said:
You have to put faith in the idea that what you're seeing is real or none of it works...


No you don't, all you have to do is form a hypothesis, test it, then make a conclusion based on your test(s)... faith is not necessarily involved in this process, and a valid theory is still valid even if its creator doesn't have faith in it.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: sunset_mission]
    #15413795 - 11/23/11 04:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sunset_mission said:
There are no "scientific" means or experiments to prove or disprove "God" in the religious sense.





there's no way to prove or disprove the existence of god in any sense, atheist take it on faith because of their beliefs that god doesnt exist while christians believe he does



Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Religion indoctrinates




as does science, just as any other religion there are many sects, some
believe special relativity, the string theory, abiogenesis while others
do not and there's plenty of infighting between them




Religious doctrines and scientific areas of study/theory are not necessarily one and the same. That there are various schools of differing thought that lead to disagreements is similar in both science and religion, I suppose.




we can articulate it in any way we wish but it doesnt change the facts, I
cannot send my children to public schools for them to learn religious
belief of intelligent design or creation, instead they are indoctrinated
with the secular views of science. parents are required by law to send
their kids to school and as most people cant afford private schools,
public schools are the available option for them.  why is one view pushed
in schools while the other is not, in america we call it indoctrination
just as religion indoctrinates children to believe in creation


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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Chemical_Sandman]
    #15413809 - 11/23/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chemical_Sandman said:
Quote:

Mind Transcribing said:
Quote:

Caine said:
Religion and science are just two ways to try to describe the exact same thing!
There's no reason why someone can't be both logical and religious. :nonono:



Wait...what?





"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"

Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941




einstein was a brilliant man. but you should also realize that his idea of religion/god is nowehere near what christians believe. his idea of "god" is much like my own.

“The religious feeling engendered by experiencing the logical comprehensibility of profound interrelations is of a somewhat different sort from the feeling that one usually calls religious. It is more a feeling of awe at the scheme that is manifested in the material universe. It does not lead us to take the step of fashioning a god-like being in our own image-a personage who makes demands of us and who takes an interest in us as individuals. There is in this neither a will nor a goal, nor a must, but only sheer being. For this reason, people of our type see in morality a purely human matter, albeit the most important in the human sphere.”


--------------------


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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15413815 - 11/23/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Religion indoctrinates




as does science...


I've never seen a scientific article that "preaches" its message in the same way that religious writings do.




dont they? are we not told that there are certain laws regarding science, laws of physics just as there are laws of god


Yes, but we're not preached about it in scientific literature; also, scientific literature backs its claims up with evidence, whereas religious people don't. Science articles aren't about preaching, they're about informing... science isn't concerned about converting people, whereas religion is.


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Different areas of science collaborate with each other, whereas different sects of religion oppose each other... not very similar IMO. :shrug:




one group is currently protesting the current discovery of a particle
traveling faster than light, saying that their prophet, Einstein is right
that's not cooperation, that's opposition. they question the validity
through various means
...


That sounds like collaboration to me; that is what scientists do, they have their peers review their theories. :shrug:


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...such as the substrate it was fired through, the
synchronization of clocks, anything to say that the other is wrong and
nothing can travel faster than light


They are just trying to defend their theory because they think it's correct based on the available evidence; both sides are interested in knowing the truth, and there's no better way to arrive at it than by meticulously scrutinizing proposed ideas. This scrutinizing (i.e. peer-review) process is part of the collaboration that occurs between scientists.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Poid] * 2
    #15413817 - 11/23/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

There is no proof that anything you experience is real.

It takes faith to believe anything at all.


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