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OfflineSubconscious
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Poid]
    #15437525 - 11/28/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I see two loud, annoying douchebags here, one Christian and the other pedantic.



Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I didn't watch the video...




:lol:




Fail.

:ilold:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Subconscious]
    #15437531 - 11/28/11 08:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

You're quite adept at reading between the lines, my friend. :smirk:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineDoctorFJK
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: morrowasted]
    #15437538 - 11/28/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

DoctorFJK said:
Face palming someone in a debate without an explanation is exactly the same thing as calling someone a motherfucker.

:facepalm3:



Not really :shrug:




Course it is, both actions are meant to be insults. Just because one is meant to be more offensive than the other that doesn't mean your face palm doesn't represent the same message.


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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #15437560 - 11/28/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Regardless, calling your opponent a "motherfucker" is a debate fail by default if nothing else.




those are some pretty black and white debating terms.

people seem to take that motherfucker remark way too seriously, i felt it was well deserved.

that prof wasn't asking for a debate.

Quote:

I'm usually a pretty respectful person but sometimes you just got to tell someone to :eatadick: and take their bullshit elsewhere.

If you have the stones to go into a public space and start spewing out controversial topics or attacking peoples' personal beliefs, then you should man up and be prepared for someone to tell you to suck a fat cock and take your bullshit elsewhere. Most people just don't want to hear it.

I'm all for free speech but there is a time, place, and most importantly a method. If your method is being an annoying, loud, douchebag... don't be suprised when someone tells you to fuck off.




this.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: wildchild68]
    #15437577 - 11/28/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wildchild68 said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Regardless, calling your opponent a "motherfucker" is a debate fail by default if nothing else.




those are some pretty black and white debating terms.

people seem to take that motherfucker remark way too seriously, i felt it was well deserved.

that prof wasn't asking for a debate.

Quote:

I'm usually a pretty respectful person but sometimes you just got to tell someone to :eatadick: and take their bullshit elsewhere.

If you have the stones to go into a public space and start spewing out controversial topics or attacking peoples' personal beliefs, then you should man up and be prepared for someone to tell you to suck a fat cock and take your bullshit elsewhere. Most people just don't want to hear it.

I'm all for free speech but there is a time, place, and most importantly a method. If your method is being an annoying, loud, douchebag... don't be suprised when someone tells you to fuck off.




this.




I'm not saying the professor was outside of his rights telling off the preacher. I am, however, saying that he's an asshole and a shitty professor.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineSubconscious
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #15437580 - 11/28/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
No, but again unless he was trying to draw attention with a populist appeal, there's just no excuse, as a professor of "Logic" or whatever, to call somebody a motherfucker in public. We resort to ad hominems when we've exhausted the capacity of logic to rebut the opponent's position. Calling somebody a "motherfucker" is not fallacious in itself but it speaks of an argumentative failure beyond a doubt.





"arguing" or debating with a Christian is the same as debating with a brick wall. Their belief system is based on faith, which by definition is not logical. That's why these debates always end up going in circles, it's pointless.

I see a video of a guy who got pissed off at an annoying douchebag on campus, cheered on by students, probably got a bit over emotional and through out a few insults.

It has nothing to do with "argumentative" failure on either part.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Subconscious]
    #15437593 - 11/28/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Subconscious said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
No, but again unless he was trying to draw attention with a populist appeal, there's just no excuse, as a professor of "Logic" or whatever, to call somebody a motherfucker in public. We resort to ad hominems when we've exhausted the capacity of logic to rebut the opponent's position. Calling somebody a "motherfucker" is not fallacious in itself but it speaks of an argumentative failure beyond a doubt.





"arguing" or debating with a Christian is the same as debating with a brick wall.[1] Their belief system is based on faith, which by definition is not logical. That's why these debates always end up going in circles, it's pointless.[2]




1. Great, a generalization! Super logical, bro.
2. About as pointless as verbal assaults against brick walls?

Quote:

I see a video of a guy who got pissed off at an annoying douchebag on campus, cheered on by students, probably got a bit over emotional and through out a few insults.

It has nothing to do with "argumentative" failure on either part.




Nope. It has everything to do with argumentative failure that his restraint was broken by popular emotion.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #15437597 - 11/28/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
You have definitely lost the debate by the time you whip out the MF bomb.


Not true, committing one logical fallacy doesn't automatically make you lose a debate.
If we're gonna talk about whose position is more logically fallacious, then...:commonsense:




No, but again unless he was just trying to draw attention with a populist appeal, there's just no excuse, as a professor of "Logic" or whatever, to call somebody a motherfucker in public.


I think whatever excuse he had is just as valid as the excuse anybody else has had for calling somebody a mother fucker in public... just because he teaches logic doesn't mean that he can't possibly have a valid excuse for calling someone a mother fucker in public.

Again, I haven't seen the video, so I don't know what mood he was in when he made the comment... I'm thinking, though, that he was at least slightly irritated, and made the comment out of frustration. I think this is excusable (albeit a bit unprofessional considering his position in the university)... really, what he said was not that big of a deal.


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
We resort to ad hominems when we've exhausted the capacity of logic to rebut the opponent's position. Calling somebody a "motherfucker" is not fallacious in itself but it speaks of an argumentative failure beyond a doubt.


As to your first point, yes, this is true in a genuine debate setting, but not necessarily so in informal settings; like I said, he was probably just talking shit for the sake of talking shit. I think he knew fully well that what he said was logically fallacious, and I don't think he intended the comment to be part of his argument.


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
If he doesn't have better ways to spend his time than talking shit to random God freaks then he's probably a piss-poor professor.


I don't agree... what he does during his free time says nothing about his ability to adequately perform the functions of his career. He may be an asshole, but this doesn't necessarily mean he sucks ass at teaching.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (11/28/11 09:04 PM)


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Offlinewildchild68
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #15437601 - 11/28/11 08:59 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

he was reacting to someone insulting him.

he might not be a shining example of turning the other cheek, but give him a break.

that's human nature. have you never responded with an insult to someone insulting you?

i still don't see how that automatically makes him a shitty professor. he wasn't in a classroom, take his professor cloak off, he was just fed up with some jamoke ranting and raving about his moral superiority.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Poid]
    #15437623 - 11/28/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
We resort to ad hominems when we've exhausted the capacity of logic to rebut the opponent's position. Calling somebody a "motherfucker" is not fallacious in itself but it speaks of an argumentative failure beyond a doubt.


As to your first point, yes, this is true in a genuine debate setting, but not necessarily so in informal settings; like I said, he was probably just talking shit for the sake of talking shit. I think he knew fully well that what he said was logically fallacious, and I don't think he intended the comment to be part of his argument.







Personally, I find it universally unacceptable to verbally assault strangers in public, but that's just me. :shrug:


Quote:

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
If he doesn't have better ways to spend his time than talking shit to random God freaks then he's probably a piss-poor professor.


I don't agree... what he does during his free time says nothing about his ability to adequately perform the functions of his career. He may be an asshole, but this doesn't necessarily mean he sucks ass at teaching.




Okay, fine, I admit it. My personal feelings have clouded what insight I had into this particular professor's teaching abilities. :nonono:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineSubconscious
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: wildchild68]
    #15437627 - 11/28/11 09:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Did you actually watch the video yet Tchan?

In the beginning the professor was calm, didn't seem to want to debate, and told the dude to get off campus.

Preacher insisted on being an annoying asshole.

Professor insults preacher.

Again, not argumentative failure. Not even an argument, just a guy who wouldn't shut up who in the end got made out to look like a giant dildo.

Good riddance.


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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Subconscious]
    #15437639 - 11/28/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Subconscious said:
Did you actually watch the video yet Tchan?

In the beginning the professor was calm, didn't seem to want to debate, and told the dude to get off campus.

Preacher insisted on being an annoying asshole.

Professor insults preacher.

Again, not argumentative failure. Not even an argument, just a guy who wouldn't shut up who in the end got made out to look like a giant dildo.

Good riddance.




The professor has no right to tell anyone to get off a public campus. If he had that right he would have gotten campus police to escort the preacher out or arrest him. But the professor doesn't have that right. The preacher has the right to free speech, just like the professor, the occupy movement, and every other one of us.

IMO the professor should have, as wildchild said, turned the other cheek and been the better man. Instead he stooped to exactly the same kind of monstrously illogical thinking of which he accuses the preacher.

What does that say?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #15437680 - 11/28/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Personally, I find it universally unacceptable to verbally assault strangers in public, but that's just me. :shrug:


I generally find it unacceptable, but I think a person has a right to defend themselves when they're being attacked. Every single preacher I've seen has been a disrespectful, undignified, offensive twat, and I have no doubt that the guy this professor cussed at is any different... I see no reason why it would be unacceptable to verbally defend yourself against an offensive stranger.


Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Okay, fine, I admit it. My personal feelings have clouded what insight I had into this particular professor's teaching abilities. :nonono:


Personal feelings are for girls. :stoned:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSubconscious
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #15437681 - 11/28/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Being insulted or aggravated is bound to produce an emotional response in most people. Sometimes "turning the other cheek" is easier said than done.

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
The professor has no right to tell anyone to get off a public campus.




If someone is verbally attacking you you have every right to act. Did you watch the video? Preacher was clearly instigating the whole situation, we don't see the first few seconds but from what we do see the professor was calm and the preacher was being annoying and childish. "and what do YOOOOOOOOOOOOOU teach!?!?!"


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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Subconscious]
    #15437697 - 11/28/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i've seen that preacher in a movie. some documentary. can't recall which one though.

it's frustrating to me that people think that guys like this represent christianity, much less religion as a whole. i'm by no means christian, but i have grown to have an enormous amount of respect for it even if i have intellectual reservations about certain aspects of its doctrine. true theologians are not idiots like this standing out on the corner. the scholastics of the middle ages were beyond impressive and extremely influential in shaping our society. they were sort of like a cross between a lawyer and a scientist, but instead of material phenomena they used rhetoric in their experiments. the skill required to be a successful scholastic involved mastering a few languages as well as knowing the works of guys like plato, aristotle, augustine, damascene etc. to the point to where you could summarize and formulate arguments on the spot to counter or augment another argument. all this had to be done in the time it took for someone to get out a few sentences.

and believe it or not, not every christian is out trying to "save" everyone. being "saved" is derivative of an apocalyptic interpretation of the bible in which christians are rescued from the great tribulation, or jesus's thousand year reign on earth after armageddon, in order to establish the kingdom of heaven here. if i'm not mistaken this idea originated sometime in the 1900's. so it's a very new idea and in a lot of ways not even a christian one, as even early christians took revalations as an allegory representing the story of man's salvation.

i think a lot of this chic hatred for christianity is fueled by complete ignorance of it. i mostly blame evangelicals and kooks like the guy in the video. mostly.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Subconscious]
    #15437706 - 11/28/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Personally, I find it universally unacceptable to verbally assault strangers in public, but that's just me. :shrug:


I generally find it unacceptable, but I think a person has a right to defend themselves when they're being attacked. Every single preacher I've seen has been a disrespectful, undignified, offensive twat, and I have no doubt that the guy this professor cussed at is any different... I see no reason why it would be unacceptable to verbally defend yourself against an offensive stranger.




It's just uncivilized and childish. You make a bigger impression by being passive and impartial. The professor would have made a more resonant statement against religion by remaining impassive in the face of personal insults; instead he accepted the preacher's invitation to make it personal.

Quote:

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Okay, fine, I admit it. My personal feelings have clouded what insight I had into this particular professor's teaching abilities. :nonono:


Personal feelings are for girls. :stoned:




Sexist! :shakefist:

Quote:

Subconscious said:
Being insulted or aggravated is bound to produce an emotional response in most people. Sometimes "turning the other cheek" is easier said than done.

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
The professor has no right to tell anyone to get off a public campus.




If someone is verbally attacking you you have every right to act. Did you watch the video? Preacher was clearly instigating the whole situation, we don't see the first few seconds but from what we do see the professor was calm and the preacher was being annoying and childish. "and what do YOOOOOOOOOOOOOU teach!?!?!"




I said this earlier and I'll say it again: I'm not saying the professor was out of his rights, I'm saying he was an asshole. It's true, turning the other cheek is easier said than done. That's why it's impressive when people do it; it shows confidence and discipline. :shrug:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #15437708 - 11/28/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
IMO the professor should have, as wildchild said, turned the other cheek and been the better man. Instead he stooped to exactly the same kind of monstrously illogical thinking of which he accuses the preacher.

What does that say?


It says that he has buttons, and that they were pressed. Everybody has buttons, dude, you can't expect people to be able to control their emotions 100% of the time.

The fact that, in this isolated incident, he had a similar mentality to religious people (who have this mentality pretty much all the time) doesn't say much about him IMO, other than the fact that he's not capable of living up to his ideals 100% of the time.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Poid]
    #15437716 - 11/28/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
The fact that, in this isolated incident, he had a similar mentality to religious people (who have this mentality pretty much all the time) doesn't say much about him IMO, other than the fact that he's not capable of living up to his ideals 100% of the time.




On what basis do you say that religious people have this mentality pretty much all the time? I'd be interested to see a source for that statement. :stoned:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: millzy]
    #15437730 - 11/28/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
i've seen that preacher in a movie. some documentary. can't recall which one though.

it's frustrating to me that people think that guys like this represent christianity, much less religion as a whole. i'm by no means christian, but i have grown to have an enormous amount of respect for it even if i have intellectual reservations about certain aspects of its doctrine. true theologians are not idiots like this standing out on the corner. the scholastics of the middle ages were beyond impressive and extremely influential in shaping our society. they were sort of like a cross between a lawyer and a scientist, but instead of material phenomena they used rhetoric in their experiments. the skill required to be a successful scholastic involved mastering a few languages as well as knowing the works of guys like plato, aristotle, augustine, damascene etc. to the point to where you could summarize and formulate arguments on the spot to counter or augment another argument. all this had to be done in the time it took for someone to get out a few sentences.

and believe it or not, not every christian is out trying to "save" everyone. being "saved" is derivative of an apocalyptic interpretation of the bible in which christians are rescued from the great tribulation, or jesus's thousand year reign on earth after armageddon, in order to establish the kingdom of heaven here. if i'm not mistaken this idea originated sometime in the 1900's. so it's a very new idea and in a lot of ways not even a christian one, as even early christians took revalations as an allegory representing the story of man's salvation.

i think a lot of this chic hatred for christianity is fueled by complete ignorance of it. i mostly blame evangelicals and kooks like the guy in the video. mostly.




The vast majority of Christians are respectful, sane people. You don't hear about them much because they're sane and respectful. :facepalm:

I happen to know plenty.

I must admit I am biased however. I come from the San Francisco Bay Area. I don't know any fundamentalist Christians. I do, however, know a shitload of fundamentalist atheists and liberals, and fundamentalism is fucking infuriating regardless to denomination.

However, I should also say that I never met any extreme-fundamentalist Christians when I lived in Tennessee for two years either. I suspect these people are not as common as they make themselves sound.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineMind Transcribing
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Re: "I teach logic, mother fucker." Professor Confronts Preacher on Campus [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #15437743 - 11/28/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

millzy said:
i've seen that preacher in a movie. some documentary. can't recall which one though.

it's frustrating to me that people think that guys like this represent christianity, much less religion as a whole. i'm by no means christian, but i have grown to have an enormous amount of respect for it even if i have intellectual reservations about certain aspects of its doctrine. true theologians are not idiots like this standing out on the corner. the scholastics of the middle ages were beyond impressive and extremely influential in shaping our society. they were sort of like a cross between a lawyer and a scientist, but instead of material phenomena they used rhetoric in their experiments. the skill required to be a successful scholastic involved mastering a few languages as well as knowing the works of guys like plato, aristotle, augustine, damascene etc. to the point to where you could summarize and formulate arguments on the spot to counter or augment another argument. all this had to be done in the time it took for someone to get out a few sentences.

and believe it or not, not every christian is out trying to "save" everyone. being "saved" is derivative of an apocalyptic interpretation of the bible in which christians are rescued from the great tribulation, or jesus's thousand year reign on earth after armageddon, in order to establish the kingdom of heaven here. if i'm not mistaken this idea originated sometime in the 1900's. so it's a very new idea and in a lot of ways not even a christian one, as even early christians took revalations as an allegory representing the story of man's salvation.

i think a lot of this chic hatred for christianity is fueled by complete ignorance of it. i mostly blame evangelicals and kooks like the guy in the video. mostly.




The vast majority of Christians are respectful, sane people. You don't hear about them much because they're sane and respectful. :facepalm:

I happen to know plenty.

I must admit I am biased however. I come from the San Francisco Bay Area. I don't know any fundamentalist Christians. I do, however, know a shitload of fundamentalist atheists and liberals, and fundamentalism is fucking infuriating regardless to denomination.

However, I should also say that I never met any extreme-fundamentalist Christians when I lived in Tennessee for two years either. I suspect these people are not as common as they make themselves sound.



:thumbup:


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