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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Is Advertising Wrong?
    #1540686 - 05/12/03 03:14 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If yes, why?
If no, why?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinesuperfine
Driter

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 170
Loc: My Home Roams
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1540716 - 05/12/03 03:22 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, definitely. I just wrote a little about advertising on the fast food post. Advertising is wrong because it makes people hate themselves. Hating yourself cannot possibly be good for society or humans. When I watch tv baked, all i see is all the little ploys behind every single ad and show. I like myself and my mind. I'm sure many of the people on the shroomery boards feel the same way. Mushrooms help many see past the advertising bullshit to what is really important. When somebody sees an ad where somebody is just so damn happy that they have a mop that can clean places that you cant even see they subconsciously register that. When they get the mop and they are not happy they hate themselves.


--------------------
Go through the orange yesterday

I watched intently for a while to both sides, infront of me and behind me.
I was impressed to learn there was another way to look... UP!
More impressive still was the fact that there were beautiful stars in this direction
Most amazing fact of all was the prospect of another direction when I was done with up. DOWN! Which, based on the feel through my toes would be a fine sandy beach!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1540738 - 05/12/03 03:29 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Advertising isn't INHERENTLY wrong, but a lot of advertisers will stoop pretty damn low to get you to buy their product.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: superfine]
    #1540743 - 05/12/03 03:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What about ads like the "Truth" ads (the anti-smoking ads)?
What about public awareness ads?
What about ads concerning political issues (assuming no bullshit rhetoric tactics)?

What sort of calculus would it take to be able to decide which ads are good and which aren't?

Or should we just ban everything and throw the baby out with the bath water?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1540801 - 05/12/03 03:54 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think advertising is "right," but I don't think its "wrong" either :-D


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1540825 - 05/12/03 04:02 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I think that the fundamental nature of advertising is to trick you into buying what you wouldn't otherwise buy, i.e. what you don't really need or wouldnn't have wanted. it's an infringement of your right to be happy, temptation free. of course, this is only for 99% of the people.... a good 1% is smart enough to know what they want and they don't get taken by bullshit, and those are the people running marathons and curing aids or whatever, so they don't have time to watch ads anyway. I'm all for the minority telling the rest of us what to do, it's just that I want the minority that's doing egalitarian smart people work to tell me what to do. of course, the problem is determining who the egalitarian smart people are. well, you can be damn sure that it isn't people working on ad jingles.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1541011 - 05/12/03 07:11 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Are you asking "Is advertising immoral?"

If so, the answer is "No," at least when we refer to the concept of advertising. Clearly it is always possible for individual ads to be fraudulent, in which case those specific ads may be deemed immoral or unethical.

Justification for my answer?

The act of advertising or promoting something must be judged by the same criteria as any other action that humans perform -- if such an action does not forcibly (or, by extension, fraudulently) interfere with the right of other humans to act according to their best judgment, then their rights have not been violated and no immoral act has taken place.

Example -- I watch a Simpsons rerun on tv. I see ads for a Honda, a Toyota, a Nissan, and a Pontiac. The ad for the Honda has flashy camerawork. The ad for the Toyota has awesome scenery -- a windy coastal road, say. The ad for the Nissan has a great soundtrack. The ad for the Pontiac has a cute chick. How have I (or anyone else) been harmed by choosing to watch the ad rather than heading to the kitchen to make a sandwich?

Answer -- in no way whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I may have actually been helped -- it is possible that until I had seen those ads I was unaware that Nissan made a car of that particular class which on further investigation turns out to more closely meet my needs than the Ford I had been prepared to buy the day before.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Malachi]
    #1541022 - 05/12/03 07:23 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Malachi writes:

I think that the fundamental nature of advertising is to trick you into buying what you wouldn't otherwise buy, i.e. what you don't really need or wouldnn't have wanted.

Incorrect. All advertising which is associated with any product for which there is more than one manufacturer is designed not to convince you to buy, say, a pair of flashy sports shoes, but to buy that particular manufacturer's pair of flashy sports shoes instead of some other manufacturer's. If you are not interested in sports shoes, you won't buy them no matter how "compelling" the ad may be.

it's an infringement of your right to be happy, temptation free.

You have no right to either happiness or freedom from temptation.

of course, this is only for 99% of the people.... a good 1% is smart enough to know what they want and they don't get taken by bullshit...

My, what an elitist view you hold. 99% of the human race are gullible fools, are they? I prseume you consider yourself part of the 1% who are too smart to be taken in?

I'm all for the minority telling the rest of us what to do...

Why?

... it's just that I want the minority that's doing egalitarian smart people work to tell me what to do.

What makes you assume the smart people are those who believe in egalitarianism?

of course, the problem is determining who the egalitarian smart people are.

Egalitarians are by definition not smart, so I can sympathize with your dilemma.

pinky



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Anonymous

Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Phred]
    #1541135 - 05/12/03 10:05 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Applause!


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,728
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 12 days, 16 hours
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1541166 - 05/12/03 10:26 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with Strumpling here. Advertising isn't inherently good or bad. It's a natural part of any healthy economy. But I definitely think advertising should be regulated, because there don't seem to be any natural mechanism by which advertising limits itself before it becomes irritating.


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1541227 - 05/12/03 10:58 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Advertising isnt wrong.


ITS FUCKING BULLSHIT


none of you know how it feels unless you spent THE LAST 3 YEARS STUDYING THAT SHIT!!


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1541264 - 05/12/03 11:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

RIght at this very moment im sitting in a lab, tearing my hear, trying to write a 2000 word paper on absolutely bullshit. And you think that's all i have to do? I get to write useless shit everyday.

TWO THOUSAND WORDS, its torture i'm telling you. Especially if my theory about august comes true.


For the love of all Gods in the universe people, if you ever do go to the college/ univerity, do pick the right subject. Otherwise there is a 50/50 chance yoy will commit suicide by the end of second year. (one of my friends did)


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Phred]
    #1541273 - 05/12/03 11:19 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

if such an action does not forcibly (or, by extension, fraudulently) interfere with the right of other humans to act according to their best judgment, then their rights have not been violated and no immoral act has taken place.




Human judgment can be manipulated, despite how much brain power you feel you may have. Humans are emotional creatures and make decisions based on emotional inclinations or attitudes. In much of advertising, these attitudes are aroused and associated with a particular product increasing the chances that the person will buy the product. There is plenty of data supporting this.

They promote fallacious reasoning in the form of ?Argumentum ad Populum? to get us to buy their product- they associate their product with a famous figure (Michael Jordan), they associate it with a popularly held opinion (American pride), associate it with sex, with being ridiculously thin, with being popular, they say it is the best product because it is the best selling. We all are susceptible to these emotional ploys- only those who have the time and resources to develop their critical thinking skills can become less susceptible.

Advertisers employ tried and true psychological tricks that get people to buy their product. The advertising industry is more about who can come up with better tricks than the competition rather than who can come up with the highest quality product.

Yes, people have the right to decide which product they will buy using any criteria they want (a friend is the merchant, I agree with the merchant?s values), but potential consumers are being intentionally manipulated here and I indeed think it is an immoral act.


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1541286 - 05/12/03 11:23 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, let me quote a junk from the middle, if i dont i might jump out of the window any second

"Swagerman continues, that In recent years there have been developments to overcome the aforementioned problems by developing common Internet-based reporting languages. The ICT is an enabling factor for this development. The concept of using ICT as an enabling factor has been written about extensively and is considered to be outside the scope of this paper.

To name just one break thro is the current developments of XML-based universal language for financial reporting, the most famous of these languages being XBRL. It translates as "eXtensible Business Reporting Language".

XBRL allows programmers, vendors and other users that adopt it as a specification to enhance the design, exchange, and comparison of business reporting information. Business reporting includes, but is not limited to, financial statements, financial information, non-financial information and regulatory filings, for example annual financial statements and statutory filings."



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Edited by cleaner (05/12/03 11:24 AM)


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1541307 - 05/12/03 11:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

What sort of calculus would it take to be able to decide which ads are good and which aren't?






What concerns me the most is that many people in the world have not developed their ability to critically assess claims made by commercials. It is these people who can easily be taken advatage of by appeals to emotion and other fallacious reasoning. I think the closer a commercial comes to presenting the case for a product in the form of a sound argument, the better it is.



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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: buttonion]
    #1541312 - 05/12/03 11:33 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Ahhh my dear google, what would i do without you. Cut and paste and edit here and there and that bitch superviser will never get a clue about plagarism.

ahhhhh



I HATE MARKETING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






easy easy... just relax bro, smoke a bowl
its not that i dont have a bowl, its that I DONT HAVE WEED
ok just eat your hat
ok, ahmm am anm yum


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Edited by cleaner (05/12/03 11:34 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: cleaner]
    #1541350 - 05/12/03 11:47 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

By the way, if anyone here is in advertising or marketing, kill yourself. Thank you, thank you. Just a little thought. I'm just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they'll take root. I don't know. You try. You do what you can. Kill yourselves. Seriously though, if you are, do. No really, there's no rationalisation for what you do, and you are Satan's little helpers, OK? Kill yourselves, seriously. You're the ruiner of all things good. Seriously, no, this is not a joke. "There's gonna be a joke coming..." There's no fucking joke coming, you are Satan's spawn, filling the world with bile and garbage, you are fucked and you are fucking us, kill yourselves, it's the only way to save your fucking soul. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now.

-- Bill Hicks


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1541374 - 05/12/03 11:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Ohh i think im gonna send that memo to my course leader


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1541425 - 05/12/03 12:20 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

alright pinksharkmark.... I didn't really expect to find neo cons on a shroom message board... maybe a libertarian or two....


"The act of advertising or promoting something must be judged by the same criteria as any other action that humans perform -- if such an action does not forcibly (or, by extension, fraudulently) interfere with the right of other humans to act according to their best judgment, then their rights have not been violated and no immoral act has taken place."


what you're avoiding is that virtually all commericals aren't telling the truth; if they did then they'd all tell you to not buy american cars. its only considered unethical if people get seriously hurt or killed. I'm saying it should be unethical to tell someone that a ford focus is a good car to buy.


"If you are not interested in sports shoes, you won't buy them no matter how "compelling" the ad may be"

then why do I see so many fat people walking around with nike sports shoes? it's pretty obivous that they don't use them, and if they knew anything about running shoes they'd get themselves some orthopedic support from a good pair of new balance or asics. why do people buy tshirts for $20 just cause they have a particular logo on them? is it because they where helped by a commercial to see that a logo would make the shirt better? no, the commerical established a link in their mind between some pleasurable image and a logo. it's conditioning any way you slice it; the evidence is al around us.


"You have no right to either happiness or freedom from temptation"


says you. but I don't have a problem getting pissed off at people who lower my standard of living. I know, I know, you love corporate america so don't mind being bombarded with mental waste all day, but that's your perogative.


"My, what an elitist view you hold. 99% of the human race are gullible fools, are they? I prseume you consider yourself part of the 1% who are too smart to be taken in?"


nope, wrong again. why would I be pissed off if I was impervious to the effects of advertising? I try, oh I try, but we all tend to fall into some advertising trap, you seem to be taken in by the excellent PR campus conservatives are doing in this oh so vital time. maybe I'm just taken in by adbusers. ironic, huh? but who knows.


"Egalitarians are by definition not smart, so I can sympathize with your dilemma"


riiiight. ok, your arguments weren't strongly backed to start with, but this is just old man conservative rhetoric bullshit.



--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Is Advertising Wrong? [Re: Malachi]
    #1541430 - 05/12/03 12:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Good post malachi.

Why should only the rich have the right to pollute our lives with their garbage? Why can't we see information on other things apart from cars and coca-cola?

Freedom of speech should exist for everyone - not simply for those with the money to buy it.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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