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Sacklome

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 138
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LSD retention in spinal fluid
#15374368 - 11/15/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not quite sure as to how this has been refuted by experimental evidence. The sources I have found are those given on erowid (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml) and wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_misconceptions_about_illegal_drugs#Retention_of_LSD_in_spinal_fluid)
Now I'm mainly interested in the quote from "LSD My Problem Child" by Albert Hoffman.
"The concentration of LSD in the various organs attains maximum values 10 to 15 minutes after injection, then falls off swiftly. The small intestine, in which the concentration attains the maximum within two hours, constitutes an exception. The elimination of LSD is conducted for the most part (up to 80%) through the instestine via liver and bile. Only 1 to 10 percent of the elimination product exists as unaltered LSD; the remainder is made up of various transformation products."
Now this is talking about injection of lsd right? Could it not be retained in spinal fluid when taken orally? Also, that 1 to 10% of unaltered LSD in the elimination product, is this excreted in urine?
And in the sources that show the half life to be around 160 minutes, what does this have to do with retention in spinal fluid? I mean it's the half life, not the point of complete elimination so it's still possible.
Sorry I'm just having trouble understanding it.
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The_Aviator
High Flyer



Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2,277
Loc: Gamehendge
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: LSD retention in spinal fluid [Re: Sacklome]
#15374409 - 11/15/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Half life is the time for half of it to be eliminated. LSD is not a very stable compound. It is completely gone out of your system in a couple of days (at most). The whole thing with it staying in your spinal fluid is bullshit. It is impossible.
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Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself." Being and Nothingness Easy no-nausea hbwr tek Phish videos and discussion!
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Sacklome

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 138
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Re: LSD retention in spinal fluid [Re: The_Aviator]
#15374427 - 11/15/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes but just because half of it is eliminated in that time does it mean that it will be entirely eliminated eventually? I'm convinced that this is all bullshit (it's fairly obvious) but I need strong evidence if I'm going to convince other people of it.
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The_Aviator
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Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2,277
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Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: LSD retention in spinal fluid [Re: Sacklome]
#15374461 - 11/15/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sacklome said: Yes but just because half of it is eliminated in that time does it mean that it will be entirely eliminated eventually? I'm convinced that this is all bullshit (it's fairly obvious) but I need strong evidence if I'm going to convince other people of it.
Yes. The graph would be similar to an inverse exponential. In double the time of the half life half of that sample would be gone. And it iterates. LSD doses are already in extremely small quantities (micrograms). So it does not take a long time for it to completely disappear from the body.
Say you start with a quantity of 1 units. 160 minutes = .5 units 320 minutes = .25 units 480 minutes = .0125 units etc.
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Sartre on conciousness: "a being such that in its being, its being is in question in so far as this being implies a being other than itself." Being and Nothingness Easy no-nausea hbwr tek Phish videos and discussion!
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Me_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 3,230
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Re: LSD retention in spinal fluid [Re: Sacklome]
#15374473 - 11/15/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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As you probably understand, half of it is eliminated within 160 min., so your 100 microgram dose is down to 50 micrograms in less than 3 hours. 3 hours later, you're down to 25 micrograms in your body, and so forth. The logic of half-lives doesn't allow for complete absence of the substance in question (kindof like Xeno's paradox), though at some point it falls beneath the threshold of negligible.
Ever heard the phrase "You can't prove a negative"? It's especially difficult when the means of whittling away at the assertion involves a dangerous procedure. That's why half-wits throwing around 'facts' are so dangerous; some of the shit they sling will stick and it's awfully difficult to clean up.
Here's another one for you: "Don't argue with idiots. You might end up with an idiot on your side." Good luck!
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Sacklome

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 138
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Re: LSD retention in spinal fluid [Re: Me_Roy]
#15374512 - 11/15/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank both of you, I'll be ready for when someone brings this up now. Today I heard it from someone that did some sort of biology course in university (I'm not sure which specific course.) Can't believe I heard this shit from someone who actually graduated.
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bholzer
quasi-scientist



Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: LSD retention in spinal fluid [Re: Sacklome]
#15374546 - 11/15/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's generally accepted that the LSD itself is completely gone before your trip is even over. Of course there are metabolites that stick around, but you piss those out over the next day or so.
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Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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InfiniteTrip13
Psychonaut



Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 344
Loc: USA
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: LSD retention in spinal fluid [Re: bholzer]
#15374565 - 11/15/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bholzer said: It's generally accepted that the LSD itself is completely gone before your trip is even over. Of course there are metabolites that stick around, but you piss those out over the next day or so.
I was just going to say, by the time your trip is over- depending on what you have drank during, you pissed it all out.
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Ignorance is Bliss.
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