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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification?
#15319155 - 11/03/11 08:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was thinking of incorporating Coco Coir into a BRF PF-Tek. As the recipe goes now:
1 part Water 1 part Brown Rice Flour 2 parts Vermiculite
But I was thinking of this:
1 part water 1 part Brown Rice Flour 1 part Vermiculite 1 part Coco Coir
Has anyone tried this? Would this work or is there something I don't know about this that will make it unfeasible?
Thanks for any advice and/or suggestions...
-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
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Umeltin
Gregory

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,530
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Dirk_Diggler]
#15319176 - 11/03/11 08:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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i just tried this but instead did peat moss with a pinch of lime flour, so far its working, actually colonizing faster.
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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Umeltin]
#15319226 - 11/03/11 08:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well that's good. I'm glad that's working. I just figured that coir or peat moss would be a little more nutritious and "natural" than all vermiculite. Also adding about a tablespoon of gypsum per cup of BRF I imagine would be beneficial as well.
I think I'll give this a go and see how it turns out...
If it all works out I'll definately start a thread on the procedure.
Also I don't put the coir in water and let it expand, per se. I get a cheese grater and grate the coir brick into small size pieces so it's almost like really fine flour.
-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
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Umeltin
Gregory

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,530
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Dirk_Diggler]
#15319286 - 11/03/11 08:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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id just try it on one jar and see what happens. the peatmoss/verm/brf/lime cake i made looks darker though because of the peat in it. but it does look healthy and is colonizing faster than the normal brf cakes
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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Umeltin]
#15319687 - 11/03/11 09:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wonder why it's colonizing faster? I mean when people spawn to bulk they sometimes use a 50/50 verm/coir and the mycelium from the cakes just takes over so I'm pretty sure it would work. And if it's colonizing faster I find it hard to imagine that no one has thought of this before...
I mean you're not reducing any of the nutrient content; the BRF amount stays the same. You're just substituting half of the vermiculite you would normally add with peat moss or coir. So the moisture content would be the same...maybe a little less "airy" but still on the safe side I would think.
Plus if you just use the PF-Tek to fruit (without casing) then the Coco Coir would hold water better in the cake during fruiting than the vermiculite would.
I think this really has a lot of potential.
-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
Edited by Dirk_Diggler (11/03/11 10:35 PM)
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Umeltin
Gregory

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,530
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Dirk_Diggler]
#15320177 - 11/03/11 11:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah i always do weird stuff like this because you might end up with something that works great.Also, everytime i dunk my cakes i use diluted coffee. And next week im going to make wild bird seed flour, and substitute for brf just to see if theres a difference, i know its like 10x cheaper, and i heard people saying they had good results.Keep me updated on your results, we might come up with something good.
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XFINITY
Not a noob just quiet



Registered: 03/14/10
Posts: 676
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Umeltin]
#15320194 - 11/03/11 11:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just be cautious and realize that coir is food, so make sure to only use vermiculite as the filter layer, but it should work.
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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Umeltin]
#15320199 - 11/03/11 11:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
masterdebator said: Yeah i always do weird stuff like this because you might end up with something that works great.Also, everytime i dunk my cakes i use diluted coffee. And next week im going to make wild bird seed flour, and substitute for brf just to see if theres a difference, i know its like 10x cheaper, and i heard people saying they had good results.Keep me updated on your results, we might come up with something good.
You do diluted coffee too!?!? When I add the water to my BRF cakes I always pour in fresh from the pot coffee into the water until it has just a slight brown tint...not much...maybe a tsp or two at the most.
Would like to see the results of using WBS flour, too. That sounds like it would work. It's fun tinkering around with stuff, isn't it?
I started adding very diluted coffee to all of my BRF cakes and about a tbsp of gypsum to the BRF. Seems to make it colonize faster, but then again it could just be marginal.
The more I think about it, the more it seems like adding coir to the PF-Tek jars would be very beneficial. I believe the best aspect of this would be when you dunk between flushes. The coir has very good water-holding capacity and it's essentially impossible for it to get too wet. So we'll see I guess...
Quote:
XFINITY said: Just be cautious and realize that coir is food, so make sure to only use vermiculite as the filter layer, but it should work.
Will do...I was still planning on using straight vermiculite for the contam layer on top.
-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
Edited by Dirk_Diggler (11/03/11 11:48 PM)
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shamanamba
The Shaman



Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Dirk_Diggler]
#15320236 - 11/03/11 11:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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just wanted to say ive been using coir in my cakes for a while because they seem to do so much better than just BRF. much faster colonization and coir seems to provoke more rhizomorphic myc than just BRF. it really should become the new standard of jar-cake teks for beginners.
-------------------- The Shaman
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: shamanamba]
#15320252 - 11/03/11 11:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just pasteurized an entire bucket of coir/verm... and I want to try this on some jars.
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Umeltin
Gregory

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,530
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: shamanamba]
#15320271 - 11/04/11 12:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah i got a 10lb bag of wbs seed for $1.34, compared to the brown rice 2lb bag for $2.30 so there will be lots of work with wbs. I just nocd up 2 pint jars of wbs for the first time and they were also soaked in coffee, so i cant wait to see how that one goes.
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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: shamanamba]
#15320274 - 11/04/11 12:05 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamanamba said: just wanted to say ive been using coir in my cakes for a while because they seem to do so much better than just BRF. much faster colonization and coir seems to provoke more rhizomorphic myc than just BRF. it really should become the new standard of jar-cake teks for beginners.
Great! I'm really excited to hear that it has had positive effects! It's weird because as much as I hear about the endless amount of grain substrates to use, I haven't heard of any deviation from the BRF cakes. I thought I was in uncharted waters with this idea but I'm glad that I wasn't the first one to consider and try it.
-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
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Umeltin
Gregory

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,530
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: shamanamba]
#15320287 - 11/04/11 12:08 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamanamba said: just wanted to say ive been using coir in my cakes for a while because they seem to do so much better than just BRF. much faster colonization and coir seems to provoke more rhizomorphic myc than just BRF. it really should become the new standard of jar-cake teks for beginners.
what ratio do you use? 2cups coir, 1brf and 1water with verm layer on top?
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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Umeltin]
#15320293 - 11/04/11 12:10 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
masterdebator said: yeah i got a 10lb bag of wbs seed for $1.34, compared to the brown rice 2lb bag for $2.30 so there will be lots of work with wbs. I just nocd up 2 pint jars of wbs for the first time and they were also soaked in coffee, so i cant wait to see how that one goes.
I would think that the endospores would be a problem if you substituted WBS flour for BRF. I'm certainly not an expert but I'm a damn good reader. And from what I've read using any grain other than BRF in the PF-Tek would contain too many endospores. I'm not sure, but I thought that was part of the beauty of BRF as a substrate. I'm not saying you can't use other grains because you obviously can, but I'm saying that using WBS flour might not be as great as you think because you don't soak it. But I suppose by grinding it up you release the endospores and then kill them when you sterilize. Huh...I think I just answered my own question...
But again I'm not expert and I'm all about trying new things. It just seems in theory that may provide more contams than you'd want.
-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
Edited by Dirk_Diggler (11/04/11 12:15 AM)
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Umeltin
Gregory

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,530
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Dirk_Diggler]
#15320336 - 11/04/11 12:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dirk_Diggler said:
Quote:
masterdebator said: yeah i got a 10lb bag of wbs seed for $1.34, compared to the brown rice 2lb bag for $2.30 so there will be lots of work with wbs. I just nocd up 2 pint jars of wbs for the first time and they were also soaked in coffee, so i cant wait to see how that one goes.
I would think that the endospores would be a problem if you substituted WBS flour for BRF. I'm certainly not an expert but I'm a damn good reader. And from what I've read using any grain other than BRF in the PF-Tek would contain too many endospores. I'm not sure, but I thought that was part of the beauty of BRF as a substrate. I'm not saying you can't use other grains because you obviously can, but I'm saying that using WBS flour might not be as great as you think because you don't soak it. But I suppose by grinding it up you release the endospores and then kill them when you sterilize. Huh...I think I just answered my own question...
But again I'm not expert and I'm all about trying new things. It just seems in theory that may provide more contams than you'd want.
I sure hope it works, it will save a bit of change. But you might be right, ill have to read up on it some more. I just seen a few posts on here about it and people claimed good results. Ill definitely post results when the time comes, and the peat/lime/brf/verm cakes will be birthed in one week so ill post those also.
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Umeltin
Gregory

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 1,530
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Umeltin]
#15320346 - 11/04/11 12:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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on another note, ill be spending all day tomorrow trying different teks to make up some lc for the first time. i got a shit ton of spore prints to use up.
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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Umeltin]
#15320349 - 11/04/11 12:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
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dtowntoker
gimme a spliff
Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 2,368
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Dirk_Diggler]
#15320974 - 11/04/11 08:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dirk_Diggler said: I wonder why it's colonizing faster? I mean when people spawn to bulk they sometimes use a 50/50 verm/coir and the mycelium from the cakes just takes over so I'm pretty sure it would work. And if it's colonizing faster I find it hard to imagine that no one has thought of this before...
I mean you're not reducing any of the nutrient content; the BRF amount stays the same. You're just substituting half of the vermiculite you would normally add with peat moss or coir. So the moisture content would be the same...maybe a little less "airy" but still on the safe side I would think.
Plus if you just use the PF-Tek to fruit (without casing) then the Coco Coir would hold water better in the cake during fruiting than the vermiculite would.
I think this really has a lot of potential.
You're both wrong and full of yourself. This has been thought of before, and there is no way coir hoods more water than vermiculite
--------------------
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Iflyaway
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 1
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: Munchauzen]
#15321025 - 11/04/11 08:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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did you prewater your coir/verm mix before sterilization?
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Dirk_Diggler
Big Bright Shining Star



Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 194
Loc: California
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Coco Coir in PF-Tek? Modification? [Re: dtowntoker]
#15321785 - 11/04/11 12:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
dtowntoker said: You're both wrong and full of yourself. This has been thought of before, and there is no way coir hoods more water than vermiculite
I searched like hell and found no thread mentioning coir in PF-Tek jars. I'm not trying to say I'm the first one who thought of it because I'm obviously not. I simply asked if anyone else had tried it and if not, then did anyone see a reason why it wouldn't work? And since I didn't come up with any threads on this when I searched, I thought it was fair game.
And from the replies so far I would say that it's a good idea. The people who have tried it have noticed nothing but positive effects so far.
Oh, and I'm one of the most self-loathing people. I assure you I'm not "full of myself".
-------------------- My idea was, you know, I just want a name...I want it so it can cut glass, you know? Like, razor sharp. When I close my eyes, I see this thing...it's like this big sign...and the name is in, like, bright blue neon lights with, like, purple outline...and this name is just so bright and so sharp that the sign, it just blows up because the name is just so powerful...it says:
Edited by Dirk_Diggler (11/04/11 12:29 PM)
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