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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Enlil]
    #17177504 - 11/07/12 07:36 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No, apparently we're both right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Manson

Read the very first paragraph


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17177539 - 11/07/12 07:44 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No, only Enhil is right this time.  Read up on Shorty Shea and Gary Hinman further down. 




Quote:

In a 1971 trial that took place after his Tate/LaBianca convictions, Manson was found guilty of the murders of Gary Hinman and Donald "Shorty" Shea and was given a life sentence. Shea was a Spahn Ranch stuntman and horse wrangler who had been killed approximately 10 days after the August 16, 1969, sheriff's raid on the ranch. Manson, who suspected that Shea helped set up the raid, had apparently believed Shea was trying to get Spahn to run the Family off the ranch. Manson may have considered it a "sin" that the white Shea had married a black woman; and there was the possibility that Shea knew about the Tate/LaBianca killings.[2]:99–113[74] In separate trials, Family members Bruce Davis and Steve "Clem" Grogan were also found guilty of Shea's murder.


















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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17177546 - 11/07/12 07:46 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No...You're wrong...I'm right.

He is in prison for seven counts of murder...not conspiracy...murder.  He was sentenced to death for murder.  He couldn't be sentenced to death for conspiracy.  Because he was sentenced to death, he wasn't sentenced for conspiracy.

He committed murder seven times...and he was convicted of murder seven times.  He is now serving a life sentence for those seven murders.  Why you keep focusing on another lesser charge, I can only guess.

P.S.  Leary is also right about the other murder convictions.  That brings his total murders to 9.


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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Enlil]
    #17177607 - 11/07/12 08:07 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No, you clearly didn't follow the link. It's a very short paragraph, just read it. It says he was convicted of conspiracy to murder and by some sick logic that counted as regular murder in California. Hell, I'll even quote it:

Quote:

was found guilty of conspiracy to commit the murders of Sharon Tate and Leno and Rosemary LaBianca carried out by members of the group at his instruction. He was convicted of the murders through the joint-responsibility rule, which makes each member of a conspiracy guilty of crimes his fellow conspirators commit in furtherance of the conspiracy's objective.




@ Leary: That's just more of the same. You'd have to be an idiot to murder someone just cus somebody else told u to. Why should Manson be held accountable for their behavior?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17177620 - 11/07/12 08:09 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Again..you're wrong..he was charged with seven counts of murder AND conspiracy to commit murder...he was found guilty of ALL EIGHT CHARGES...

He was sentenced to DEATH for the seven counts of murder...That sentence was later changed to life because of a california supreme court case.

He was never sentenced for the conspiracy charge because there was no point in sentencing a man condemned to death.

You seem to think that murder is only murder if you actually pull the trigger.  That is simply untrue.  The getaway driver in a bank robbery is also guilty of robbery.  The bomb builder in a bombing is also guilty.  Manson is just as responsible for those murders as the people who actually stabbed those bitches.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17177640 - 11/07/12 08:16 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Read more on the Shorty Shea murder.  Manson actually participated in that murder and was convicted of murder, not conspiracy, along with Clem Grogan and Bruce Davis.

Wikipedia said he was convicted of murder of Gary Hinman also, but I can't remember if that's true or not.  I can't remember if he was there at the time of his death or not.  I thought he left and had Sadie and maybe Bobby Beausoleil kill Hinman.













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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Enlil]
    #17177657 - 11/07/12 08:21 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You're just nitpicking. That's what I'm saying: he was charged with all those murders only cus conspiracy to murder was equated with murder.

It's not the same as being a get away driver. It's not like he took them to the scene of the crime or unlocked the door or anything like that. There was no evidence against Manson. It was just kids saying that an older kid told them to do it. Nixon declared Manson guilty before he ever went to trial. It was a farse.

@ Leary: I have to go to class. Later I will.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17177666 - 11/07/12 08:23 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It isn't nitpicking at all.  The four of them came up with a plan to kill some people...they carried it out...That's murder plain and simple.  It doesn't matter which one actually stabbed which victim.  It's premeditated murder, and the jury convicted manson of it.

And what you call "no evidence" was actually far more evidence than they had against OJ...



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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17177691 - 11/07/12 08:31 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappateer said:
It's not the same as being a get away driver. It's not like he took them to the scene of the crime or unlocked the door or anything like that. There was no evidence against Manson.




Again, that's not correct.  Manson did ride along to the Labianca murder and held the Labiancas at gunpoint while Tex tied them up.  Then he drove the car away and left the others to murder them and then find their way home. 


Quote:

According to Atkins and Kasabian, Manson disappeared up the driveway and returned to say he had tied up the house's occupants; then he sent Watson up with Krenwinkel and Van Houten.[2]:176–184, 258–269 In his autobiography, on the other hand, Watson stated that, having gone up alone, Manson returned to take him up to the house with him. After Manson pointed out a sleeping man through a window, the two of them entered through the unlocked back door. Watson added that, at trial, he "went along with" the women's account, which he figured made him "look that much less responsible."

As Watson tells it, Manson roused the sleeping Leno LaBianca from the couch at gunpoint and had Watson bind his hands with a leather thong. After Rosemary was brought briefly into the living room from the bedroom, Watson followed Manson's instructions to cover the couple's heads with pillowcases. He bound these in place with lamp cords. Manson left, sending Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten into the house with instructions that the couple be killed.

(wikipedia)
















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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Learyfan]
    #17177694 - 11/07/12 08:32 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Leary, you're missing zappateer's whole point.  Manson says they lied and that he didn't do it.  Why would he say that if it wasn't true?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Enlil]
    #17177731 - 11/07/12 08:44 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well here's Manson admitting to having been there and then left. 


















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InvisibleCapers
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Learyfan]
    #17181665 - 11/07/12 08:41 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Ok fine, I was wrong about him being at the scene of the crime. He never admits in that video that he told them to murder tho. What evidence was there besides the word of the murderers?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17183354 - 11/08/12 05:01 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It doesn't matter if he told them...what part of that don't you understand?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17183460 - 11/08/12 06:20 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

At the very least, he held people at gun point so that they could be tied up and murdered.  And he participated in the murder of Shorty Shea. 
















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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #17188964 - 11/09/12 07:08 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
He is a swell guy, I like him.




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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Enlil]
    #17197171 - 11/10/12 07:11 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Leary, you're missing zappateer's whole point.  Manson says they lied and that he didn't do it.  Why would he say that if it wasn't true?



Maybe he's just a lieing murdering raping convict???

:sherlock:


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Capers]
    #17250487 - 11/20/12 01:52 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yes. He did not kill anyone. He did not force anyone to kill anyone. The kids did it of their own will.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #17250753 - 11/20/12 04:40 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Yes. He did not kill anyone. He did not force anyone to kill anyone. The kids did it of their own will.



Wrong. He did kill people.


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: Enlil]
    #17250755 - 11/20/12 04:41 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

who?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Should Charles Manson be let out of prison? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #17250770 - 11/20/12 04:52 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Shorty Shea


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