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 HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
 
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada 
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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 Do not add gypsum to cakes! 
#15307605 - 11/01/11 06:43 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Im making a post to inform others of the hazard of adding gypsum to their pf cake substrate.
If whoever decides to add gypsum, put it in the water and P.H balance to 5-6 before adding it to the dry ingredients.
Im not sure of the P.H of the water I used but adding that 1tbs of gypsum with no P.H up+ lowered it enough that not even one single spore germinated from a one day old spore print.
The one grow I did, I did not add gypsum, it worked. The second two I added gypsum and as I said, nothing grew so.... Yea, If it works for others its because your waters ph is high enough that the tbs of gypsum lowers it to optimal conditions for germination.
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OnThatJourney
Stranger
Registered: 10/27/11
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 Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: HybridprX]
#15308461 - 11/01/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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What luck! I found this post using the search feature, and it was posted only hours ago, and by a tc at that.
I have been stressing about gypsum. My spores will be arriving today and I have all ingredients needed for the PF tek, except gypsum. I couldn't find any gypsum locally for sale, but I did order a free sample of drywall made of gypsum which won't arrive for another 1-2 weeks.
I don't want to mess up my first grow by not using gypsum just because I lack patience, so I was searching the forums to see if the tek will work without gypsum. That's when I found this post. My dad will be asking his contractor friend about possible drywall scraps. If that comes through in the next few days, I will try some jars with and some without. If it doesn't come through and the drywall sample doesn't arrive, I'm doing the tek without the gypsum.
Edited by OnThatJourney (11/01/11 11:51 AM)
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smily
lookin 4 my ass wit both handz
Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 2,592
Loc: Lee HO FooKs
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Very interesting indeed
Wat a catch nice job. 
Can't wait to see this thread evolve.
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RoastedPete
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: smily]
#15308540 - 11/01/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I used gypsum for the very first time last month. My PF-style cakes flourished and colonized much faster compared to my other attempts. I am currently waiting to see how their fruits looks--It is day 4 in the tub.
Though, as you said, it is probably my water source. I use straight tap water every time. The gypsum probably just made it even better!
I am wondering what type of water you use? Do you get yours from the tap, or use jugs of distilled/purified water?
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tripdawg420
low life with no life
Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,076
Loc: illinois
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: RoastedPete]
#15308822 - 11/01/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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last time i grew cakes i used gypsum and shit didnt work out that well for me ill prolly never use it for cakes again 
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 chopstick
nobody
Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,251
Loc: Chin's Wok
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: tripdawg420]
#15309029 - 11/01/11 02:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've never had any problems using gypsum...maybe yours had a fungicide in it?
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tripdawg420
low life with no life
Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,076
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: chopstick]
#15309228 - 11/01/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Psuperdelic
Strange
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: HybridprX]
#15309441 - 11/01/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Interesting. How did you eliminate every other variable as the cause? I have some cakes with gypsum colonizing now, distilled water, and they seem to be going well at the moment but it will be good to hear what some of the more experienced growers think.
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jim617
untrusted cultivator
Registered: 11/21/09
Posts: 1,936
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: Psuperdelic]
#15309484 - 11/01/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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does gypsum have nutritional qualities? I use gypsum but I dont know why. Now im scared to.
Also, WHY would you say to not use it on just cakes? are you still using gypsum on grains?
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MrFunGuy: "I figured if I put a 15lb cinder block on top of the pot lid that it would cook @15 psi." []
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tripdawg420
low life with no life
Registered: 02/02/09
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: jim617]
#15309514 - 11/01/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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i dont use it for any thing any more i use wbs
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Psuperdelic
Strange
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: jim617]
#15309572 - 11/01/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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900+ posts and you dont know what gypsum is for/why you use it? 
From what I've read it adds sulfur and calcium and acts as a PH buffer to prevent ph level swings. I may be wrong but...wouldn't be the first time 
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Javadog
Continuing along
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: tripdawg420]
#15309581 - 11/01/11 04:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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If there is a "safe supplement" among all those we consider, it would be gypsum.
Even WBS jars can use a pinch, even if only to help prevent clumping.
It is nutritious.
It also has the effect of buffering the sub against pH changes.
It is safe to use. The OP ran up against something else, if I had to guess.
Take care,
JD
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Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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minitrees
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: Javadog]
#15309608 - 11/01/11 04:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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RR doesn't have anything bad to say about it either. Here's a quote from his notes.
"I soak anywhere from 4 to 24 hours. It really doesn't make much difference. The grains are only going to absorb so much, so you'll never over-hydrate by boiling. After a few hours to overnight soak, I let the pot boil for five to ten minutes, then drain into the colander. The steam that evaporates off the grains will dry the outside while the water runs down the drain. If you'll toss the colander around with the grains a few times to make them steam off, they're ready to load in twenty minutes. Gypsum serves two purposes. It adds calcium and sulfur, both essential mushroom nutrients, and helps prevent the grains from sticking and clumping up. SOAKING GRAINS"
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: minitrees]
#15309669 - 11/01/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Im not saying anything bad about using gypsum but just recommending that further experimentation is definitely required as far as adding it to pf cakes.
Chopstick had me thinking that it may have had a fungicide additive in it but then I remembered that I used it in some bulk material which colonized and fruited fine.
I personally feel that the tap waters ph that I used was already low and the addition of the gypsum lowered it enough that the spores will not germinate. I did not have any p.h testing strips so I couldn't post any accurate readings but hey, something for people to look into.
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jim617
untrusted cultivator
Registered: 11/21/09
Posts: 1,936
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: Psuperdelic]
#15309683 - 11/01/11 05:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psuperdelic said:
900+ posts and you dont know what gypsum is for/why you use it?
From what I've read it adds sulfur and calcium and acts as a PH buffer to prevent ph level swings. I may be wrong but...wouldn't be the first time
900 posts doesnt make me a profesional. just means im asking a lot of questions lol. I never saw a mushroom grow out of my bedroom wall so I wouldnt think shrooms could colonize gypsum. I never saw proof that gypsum worked either but I still use it.
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MrFunGuy: "I figured if I put a 15lb cinder block on top of the pot lid that it would cook @15 psi."[]
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Psuperdelic
Strange
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: jim617]
#15309812 - 11/01/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I didn't mean it in a bad way, was just surprised. Maybe I'm doing too much reading and not enough tripping 
Aint nothing wrong with asking questions, shroomery would be a pretty lonely place without them plus, what would I do with all my free time when I'm not wispering words of encouragement to my colonizing cakes
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jim617
untrusted cultivator
Registered: 11/21/09
Posts: 1,936
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: Psuperdelic]
#15309834 - 11/01/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psuperdelic said:
Yeah, I didn't mean it in a bad way, was just surprised. Maybe I'm doing too much reading and not enough tripping
Aint nothing wrong with asking questions, shroomery would be a pretty lonely place without them plus, what would I do with all my free time when I'm not wispering words of encouragement to my colonizing cakes
It was kind of a stupid question, but I dont understand why we need to put just a small pinch of gypsum if its so good for the myc. but coffee is the same way. its just how it is.
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MrFunGuy: "I figured if I put a 15lb cinder block on top of the pot lid that it would cook @15 psi."[]
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Phoenix Crash
Lesbian Seagull
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 482
Loc: From Paris With Love
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: jim617]
#15309913 - 11/01/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nothing at all wrong with adding Gypsum to WBS or BRF cakes. I use it in almost every batch. My friend who trips just about batch I grow says that he thinks that the ones grown with gypsum in the mix are even more potent than the ones grown without it. Haven't checked to verify that myself though. But, as far as growing goes, my myc seems to grow even better when I use it, so I'm pretty sure the gypsum is NOT your problem.
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Why is pot against the law? It wouldn't be because anyone can grow it, and therefore you can't make a profit off it, would it? - Bill Hicks
Phoenix Crash LC Tek
DIY Magnetic Stir Bars Tek
"Not all drugs are good, all right? Some of them… are fuckin' great. Just gotta know your way around them, is all."
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The Influence
Free Sheeks
Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 6,067
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Quote:
OnThatJourney said:
What luck! I found this post using the search feature, and it was posted only hours ago, and by a tc at that.
I have been stressing about gypsum. My spores will be arriving today and I have all ingredients needed for the PF tek, except gypsum. I couldn't find any gypsum locally for sale, but I did order a free sample of drywall made of gypsum which won't arrive for another 1-2 weeks.
I don't want to mess up my first grow by not using gypsum just because I lack patience, so I was searching the forums to see if the tek will work without gypsum. That's when I found this post. My dad will be asking his contractor friend about possible drywall scraps. If that comes through in the next few days, I will try some jars with and some without. If it doesn't come through and the drywall sample doesn't arrive, I'm doing the tek without the gypsum.
You do not need gypsum for the PF tek. most starting out dont use it with their cakes and have great success.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life
Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,076
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
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ya cakes do real good anyways
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: HybridprX]
#15310815 - 11/01/11 08:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said:
Im making a post to inform others of the hazard of adding gypsum to their pf cake substrate.
If whoever decides to add gypsum, put it in the water and P.H balance to 5-6 before adding it to the dry ingredients.
Im not sure of the P.H of the water I used but adding that 1tbs of gypsum with no P.H up+ lowered it enough that not even one single spore germinated from a one day old spore print.
The one grow I did, I did not add gypsum, it worked. The second two I added gypsum and as I said, nothing grew so.... Yea, If it works for others its because your waters ph is high enough that the tbs of gypsum lowers it to optimal conditions for germination.
You are absolutely incorrect.
First of all, gypsum isn't going to alter the pH much, other than to return it to neutral, since it's neutral or nearly so. In addition, mushroom mycelium prefers to germinate and grow at a pH of around 5, so your hypothesis about what went wrong(low pH) is totally off the mark. Furthermore, why would you add something to lower the pH, add gypsum and then raise the pH??? It makes no sense whatever. You screwed up somewhere else, but it wasn't the gypsum.
Quote:
HybridprX said:
I personally feel that the tap waters ph that I used was already low and the addition of the gypsum lowered it enough that the spores will not germinate.
If the pH of the tap water was low, the gypsum would have raised it back towards neutral. I'd suggest some more reading about mineral supplements.
Also, the idea expressed earlier that gypsum, a rock that is quarried out of the ground would have fungicides, is ridiculous.
RR
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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
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JaffyJaffar
Nom Nom Nom
Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 1,700
Loc: AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15310970 - 11/01/11 09:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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boom goes the dynamite
i used gypsum and harvested about an oz out of 4 cakes with only 1 flush and 2 cakes in 2 flushes
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KoD
Vive liber
Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 174
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15311000 - 11/01/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Gypsum has calcium sulfate dihydrate which is believed to be good for the mycelium and/or fruiting bodies. It acts as a buffer as well. Calcium sulfate will slightly acidify a substrate as sulfuric acids evolve.
You should add a base to your acidic substrate.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: KoD]
#15311234 - 11/01/11 10:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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this thread is nothing but fail (minus RRs post) 
gypsum at any stage of growth is benifical no doubt, no further "testing" required... I even have added it to my agar mix b4 to add calcium/sulfate at each growth stage. 
gypsum = good for mushroom growth at any time/phase. 
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Javadog
Continuing along
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: 13shrooms]
#15311319 - 11/01/11 10:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well 13, I tried.
I need to leave these things to TCs. Only you guys are trusted.
Later,
JD
--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes
Myco-tek.org
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: Javadog]
#15311354 - 11/01/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Javadog said:
If there is a "safe supplement" among all those we consider, it would be gypsum.
Even WBS jars can use a pinch, even if only to help prevent clumping.
It is nutritious.
It also has the effect of buffering the sub against pH changes.
It is safe to use. The OP ran up against something else, if I had to guess.
Take care,
JD
Quote:
Javadog said:
Well 13, I tried.
Later,
JD
 
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A M U
Click here ^ for the AMU forum
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"Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: 13shrooms]
#15316588 - 11/03/11 06:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I will prepare nine pfcakes, 3 with gypsum, 3 without and 3 with gypsum and the addition of coffee.
Im not trying to be smart but RR you said you use coffee with your soak water so wouldnt that raise the overall ph and then the addition of gpsum would lower it to a favorable level for spore germination?
and to be totally honest, I cant remember what TMC said was optimum substrate ph for spore germination.... I'll review it later today.
Im not going to rule out the possability of the gypsum containing a fungicide agent just yet since when I added it to the bulk material the mycelium was extremely healthy and we all know how versitile it can be. I will take plenty of pictures and post the results shortly.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: HybridprX]
#15316612 - 11/03/11 06:25 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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coffee adds nitrogen, doesnt swing the PH enough to worry about. IME. 
Ive never even tested the ph when growing cubes. 
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A M U
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: HybridprX]
#15316634 - 11/03/11 06:40 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said:
Im not trying to be smart but RR you said you use coffee with your soak water so wouldnt that raise the overall ph and then the addition of gpsum would lower it to a favorable level for spore germination?
Coffee is acidic so if anything it would lower the pH not raise it.
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Quick WBS Prep
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: 13shrooms]
#15316643 - 11/03/11 06:44 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
13shrooms said:
Ive never even tested the ph when growing cubes.
Seriously. Especially cakes. 2:1:1 verm, brf, H2O
Done deal.
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Quick WBS Prep
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Doctor_Inoc
Vintage Hand
Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 646
Loc:
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: HybridprX]
#15316969 - 11/03/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HybridprX said:
Im not going to rule out the possability of the gypsum containing a fungicide agent just yet since when I added it to the bulk material the mycelium was extremely healthy and we all know how versitile it can be. I will take plenty of pictures and post the results shortly.
Should state on the packaging whether or not there's an anti-fungal in the gypsum used. Use agricultural grade gypsum, sourced from a local nursery/greenhouse retailer/wholesaler.
Whether or not gypsum or any substrate material and/or additive is treated with a fungicide'll only cause SPORES not to germinate. An already established mycelial culture won't be phased by the addition of fungicide(s) to the substrate materials and/or additives.
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ghostshadow422
Stranger
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
#19067516 - 11/01/13 12:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've seem to have gotten about 5 grams dried per half pint cake, how much more is the yield from the added gypsum? the post above said an oz from 4 cakes? is that dried or fresh? and is that using hp cakes?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
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Re: Do not add gypsum to cakes! [Re: HybridprX]
#19067598 - 11/01/13 12:58 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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 This thread has been closed.
Reason:
This thread is too full of fail for a bump. It will only screw up people's grows by misinformation from those who don't understand pH.
RR
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