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Offlinewhole9
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Registered: 04/28/03
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Do republicans understand how taxes work?
    #1529897 - 05/08/03 05:18 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I mean really we go into this huge war rack up a huge debt and then the people wonder why taxes are so high when the democrats spend there time and money on better things like trying to get rid of the debt to help to economy rather than attacking other countries and killing our resources depleating reserves ect.. Its so obvious I just dont understand how people can sit around while BILLIONS of our tax dollars go toward war instead of education, or relief efforts which can prevent war. It's just frusturating thats all...


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: whole9]
    #1529933 - 05/08/03 05:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

maybe we should take after cuba.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineHuxley
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Registered: 10/17/02
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: whole9]
    #1529950 - 05/08/03 05:42 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)


I think we should take after Cambodia. Kill everyone and fuck the taxes.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: Huxley]
    #1535959 - 05/10/03 12:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You go Cambodia!!!

Charles manson had the same idea....only he wanted to save the trees

P#1


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: whole9]
    #1536839 - 05/10/03 01:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)



See that red area on the right? That's called socialism, because it's government ownership of the means of production. Not many politicians are telling you that's where sustained surpluses are taking us, are they? Read on.

If our leadership in Washington, DC (i.e., if Uncle Sam) continues refusing to return the surplus to the taxpayers, they'll soon have to use those surpluses to buy foreign debt, private sector corporate bonds, and private sector equity. (Alan Greenspan verified this in his testimony to Congress on Jan. 25, 2001.) A few hundred billion dollars a year would easily make Uncle Sam the chairman of the board in just about any private sector corporation I can think of, lickety-split. In other words, the government would become a net lender TO the public and owner OF the public, instead of a net borrower FROM the public.


Not sure about you, but I don't like that scenario. I like capitalism a lot better than socialism. I'd rather keep the "government's debt to the public" right where it is, instead of ending up with a "public's debt to the government."


I have no problem paying off foreign debt but that is only 22% of the total.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1538403 - 05/11/03 03:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

how confused are some people anyways?


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1539109 - 05/11/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You're clearly in the dark about a few things.

Currently, there IS no surplus. There is a 400 billion deficit and nearly 7 trillion in debt. If there WERE a surplus, it wouldn't be spent buying shares in the private sector, it would be spent paying down the debt. Even with a surplus of 200 billion a year (which has NEVER happened, and never will) it would take 35 years to pay down the current debt. That's assuming there were no interest. However, there IS interest which means that most of that money would just be spent paying the interest, much less actually reducing the debt.

Debt is reduced through the hidden taxation of inflation.

Excessive debt downgrades the federal government's debt rating, which means that future borrowing comes at even higher rates of interest.

The possibility of government buying shares in the private sector is easily solved: one law preventing it does the trick. This is hardly a danger that justifies the fiscal irresponsibility of a 400 billion deficit. As far as I know, the US government currently does not and cannot own private companies. If you have credible information to the contrary, I'd like to see it.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: whole9]
    #1544478 - 05/13/03 09:28 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1544535 - 05/13/03 10:26 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I like capitalism a lot better than socialism.




I experienced the change of system from socialism to capitalism and I can compare the way I live now with how my parents lived at the same age. Statistics are great. Economy thrives, average income has more then doubled and some people got rich, but what about the real quality of life? Fuck... I would go back in time immediately. :grin:

BTW I'm not measuring the quality of life with the quantity of money.     


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: zeronio]
    #1544549 - 05/13/03 10:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I would go back in time immediately.




Care to give the 30's a try?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1544591 - 05/13/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

lol A good example of how good times end.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: zeronio]
    #1544755 - 05/13/03 12:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

....or that good times are always ahead. It depends if you're a optimist or pessamist.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1547295 - 05/14/03 04:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Oh yes, I see something bright in the future. But is it the dawn of new era or it's just the glare of explosions?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: zeronio]
    #1547442 - 05/14/03 07:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

it's just a homicide bomber....they've upgraded to nuclear.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1548907 - 05/14/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

hahahaha


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1549615 - 05/15/03 01:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

it seems like capitalism is always bound to fail, it needs to be restructured, capitalists are always too focused on economic expansion and progress, which will always faulter after a certain period of time, then the capitalists will use socialism to bail themselves out, then revert to capitalism.

its like a roller-coaster....or something.....


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1554568 - 05/16/03 06:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You're clearly in the dark about a few things.

Currently, there IS no surplus. There is a 400 billion deficit and nearly 7 trillion in debt. If there WERE a surplus, it wouldn't be spent buying shares in the private sector, it would be spent paying down the debt. Even with a surplus of 200 billion a year (which has NEVER happened, and never will) it would take 35 years to pay down the current debt. That's assuming there were no interest. However, there IS interest which means that most of that money would just be spent paying the interest, much less actually reducing the debt.

Debt is reduced through the hidden taxation of inflation.

Excessive debt downgrades the federal government's debt rating, which means that future borrowing comes at even higher rates of interest.

The possibility of government buying shares in the private sector is easily solved: one law preventing it does the trick. This is hardly a danger that justifies the fiscal irresponsibility of a 400 billion deficit. As far as I know, the US government currently does not and cannot own private companies. If you have credible information to the contrary, I'd like to see it.




Don't be confused by that debt. Most of it is debt that is owed to the american people in the form of government bonds. The point is that the people are the bank and uncle sam is the debtor. I did say that we should pay off debt owed to any forien entity. When we talk about surplus and deficit we are talking in the context of the yearly budget.We could run billions in surpus one year and billions in deficit the next and that is just a reflection of the economy. Throwing a hissy over a deficit this year is just BS fodder for water cooler monkeys. The cost of running a country doesn't decrease when the economy is in a slump, in fact is likely increases. Anyway, when people buy government bonds that is government debt. If there is a sudden increase in the purchase of these bonds there will be a coresponding increase in debt. With the drop in the NYSE many people put their money into bonds. That is not realy a bad thing. I also doubt if your debt figures have taken into account government assets. Someone needs to determin the net worth of the US gov.in order to make an accurate assessment.

EDIT: Actually most of the debt is interdepartmental and federal reserve.
At the end of 2001, foreign investors owned $9.2 trillion of U.S. assets, including stock and bond holdings, ownership shares of business enterprises, and claims on U.S. banks. U.S. investors, by contrast, owned a more modest $6.9 trillion worth of the equivalent foreign assets. The difference in value between U.S. holdings of foreign assets (officially termed U.S. gross assets) and foreign holdings of U.S. assets (U.S. gross liabilities)?$2.3 trillion?is a measure of the U.S. net debt to the rest of the world, or the U.S. net international investment position.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Edited by mntlfngrs (05/17/03 12:19 PM)


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OfflineSolo
enthusiast
Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 257
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1557738 - 05/18/03 02:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When 'the government' pays off bonds where do you think the money comes from?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Do republicans understand how taxes work? [Re: Solo]
    #1569470 - 05/22/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

from selling more. This may be the worlds only purpetual motion machine! :grin:


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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