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Cudder
Learner


Registered: 07/19/11
Posts: 496
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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The Law and spiritual use of drugs.
#15286588 - 10/27/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm curious, I am a very strong advocate for the spiritual use of entheogenic substances. I believe they are important for spiritual growth (and in certain respects necessary) I want to know how one would go about being recognized by the law as a spiritual user of entheogenic substances. I'm sure people have tried (Timothy Leary comes to mind). I would love to someday see the spread of accurate information about these chemicals, be recognized as a legitamate user of said chemicals, and above all not be hassled by cops for simply doing what is natural and right.
I remember hearing about Timmy Leary's "Make your own religion" or something of that nature... Why doesn't that seem to work? Is it even a resonable idea? I don't want to lose hope but it seems so difficult...
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#15286662 - 10/27/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your spirituality is retarded and there is no reason you should have exclusive rights to anything.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#15286788 - 10/27/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cudder said: I would love to someday see the spread of accurate information about these chemicals, be recognized as a legitamate user of said chemicals, and above all not be hassled by cops for simply doing what is natural and right.
Move to a country where they're legal. I don't see it happening here. Which, I agree, sucks, but its foolish to think that you can trump the law by claiming spirituality.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#15286925 - 10/27/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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If they make an exception for you based on your religion, that is the govt. giving you preferential treatment. 
Secular minded people (should) have just as much of a right as religious people.
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BlueDeus
Psychopissological Stuff

Registered: 09/08/11
Posts: 26
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: DieCommie]
#15294093 - 10/29/11 05:03 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: If they make an exception for you based on your religion, that is the govt. giving you preferential treatment. 
Secular minded people (should) have just as much of a right as religious people.
I mean I agree with you, but isn't this sorta already the case concerning Peyote and the NAC?
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#15296323 - 10/29/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I always thought out of the body experiences were far more spiritual than LSD or going to church. I've been proselytizing astral travel including in public like in the subway and at work. Some people think I'm crazy, but if you ever talked to a shrink or social worker about astral travel, chances are they have had clients who talk about it, too. There aren't enough mental institutions in the world to house all of the astral travelers, either. Its too common.
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#15531226 - 12/17/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: BlueDeus]
#15627777 - 01/06/12 09:53 PM (12 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
BlueDeus said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: If they make an exception for you based on your religion, that is the govt. giving you preferential treatment. 
Secular minded people (should) have just as much of a right as religious people.
I mean I agree with you, but isn't this sorta already the case concerning Peyote and the NAC?
Yes, and its despicable that they have more rights than me because of their race and religion.
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mianfei
Mr.


Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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The law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: DieCommie]
#15776461 - 02/07/12 09:35 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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It certainly is despicable that religion should give people unequal rights to use any entheogen or similar substance.
Although for a long time I did not make criticism of drug laws even though I knew they were costly to governments and allowed those who did sell drugs illegally to make so much money that it became inevitable they would infiltrate the government and make it very tough to control organised crime.
In The Guardian a couple of days ago, there have been two very interesting articles. The main one, titled Magic mushrooms, international law and the failed 'war on drugs', looks at how the spiritual and medical use of psilocybin is the most severe challenge to the ideology behind the "war on drugs" and how a number of recent scientific papers have refuted the argument behind laws against psychedelics, though showing how they prevent over-stimulation of the brain - a huge problem for myself doing the most basic everyday tasks. The other one, titled Psychedelic drugs: more a case of 'turn off, tune in, drop out' gives a good look at the workings of psychedelics as described in my previous sentence.
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happy tree man


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 111
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: DieCommie]
#15847737 - 02/22/12 02:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
BlueDeus said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: If they make an exception for you based on your religion, that is the govt. giving you preferential treatment. 
Secular minded people (should) have just as much of a right as religious people.
I mean I agree with you, but isn't this sorta already the case concerning Peyote and the NAC?
Yes, and its despicable that they have more rights than me because of their race and religion.
Oregon, Arizona, Colorado, and Nevada (I believe that is the list) allow you to use mescaline regardless of race if it is spiritual. Proof of spirituality is produced through documents, I.e Peyote Way Church of God (most likely). I'd say it's only a matter of time before ethnogens become freely usable by the American populace
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Cudder
Learner


Registered: 07/19/11
Posts: 496
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: happy tree man]
#15852734 - 02/23/12 02:19 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think it would be really nice if we could use entheogens freely... But I kindof think Cannabis is going to be the only thing that will be legalized any time soon...
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happy tree man


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 111
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#15854170 - 02/23/12 06:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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I feel like it would be an exponential chain reaction, Cudder.
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Cudder
Learner


Registered: 07/19/11
Posts: 496
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: happy tree man]
#15859651 - 02/24/12 09:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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You really think so? I think maybe it could lessen some of these bad connotations people have with other substances, but knowing our government, I doubt they would allow psychedelics to really be used...
Makes me sad. 
Maybe if people were just allowed to see what they have to offer, they would want change... At least for the people that utilize them.
I don't know...
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happy tree man


Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 111
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#15860806 - 02/25/12 06:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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But see, my generation (I'm 18) seems to be so completely for legalization of everything. Maybe 10% of people I know are pro-criminalization, and I know a pretty diverse group.
If cannabis is actually legalized, our government isn't quite as bad as we think it is. If it's not as bad as we think it is, I'd say there's a strong possibility that they will one day realize that all these psychedelics don't harm the user and in no way whatsoever harm society
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: Cudder]
#16053538 - 04/06/12 04:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago) |
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Even if there is a spirit world, is there really such thing as spiritual growth? Natural human common sense tends to make people think in absolute terms, like the earth is flat, its at absolute rest, nothing existed before God alegedly said "let there be light and there was light", etc. Before your hallucinogenic intoxication I recommend you read this book.
Quote:
In reading the history of nations, we find that, like individuals, they have their whims and their peculiarities; their seasons of excitement and recklessness, when they care not what they do. We find that whole communities suddenly fix their minds upon one object, and go mad in its pursuit; that millions of people become simultaneously impressed with one delusion, and run after it, till their attention is caught by some new folly more captivating than the first. We see one nation suddenly seized, from its highest to its lowest members, with a fierce desire of military glory; another as suddenly becoming crazed upon a religious scruple, and neither of them recovering its senses until it has shed rivers of blood and sowed a harvest of groans and tears, to be reaped by its posterity. At an early age in the annals of Europe its population lost their wits about the Sepulchre of Jesus, and crowded in frenzied multitudes to the Holy Land: another age went mad for fear of the Devil, and offered up hundreds of thousands of victims to the delusion of witchcraft. At another time, the many became crazed on the subject of the Philosopher's Stone, and committed follies till then unheard of in the pursuit. It was once thought a venial offence in very many countries of Europe to destroy an enemy by slow poison. Persons who would have revolted at the idea of stabbing a man to the heart, drugged his pottage without scruple. Ladies of gentle birth and manners caught the contagion of murder, until poisoning, under their auspices, became quite fashionable. Some delusions, though notorious to all the world, have subsisted for ages, flourishing as widely among civilized and polished nations as among the early barbarians with whom they originated, -- that of duelling, for instance, and the belief in omens and divination of the future, which seem to defy the progress of knowledge to eradicate entirely from the popular mind. Money, again, has often been a cause of the delusion of multitudes. Sober nations have all at once become desperate gamblers, and risked almost their existence upon the turn of a piece of paper. To trace the history of the most prominent of these delusions is the object of the present pages. Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
In the present state of civilization, society has often shown itself very prone to run a career of folly from the last-mentioned cases. This infatuation has seized upon whole nations in a most extraordinary manner. France, with her Mississippi madness, set the first great example, and was very soon imitated by England with her South Sea Bubble. At an earlier period, Holland made herself still more ridiculous in the eyes of the world, by the frenzy which came over her people for the love of Tulips. Melancholy as all these delusions were in their ultimate results, their history is most amusing. A more ludicrous and yet painful spectacle, than that which Holland presented in the years 1635 and 1636, or France in 1719 and 1720, can hardly be imagined. Taking them in the order of their importance, we shall commence our history with John Law and the famous Mississippi scheme of the years above mentioned.
http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/Delusions/epd_preface.html
http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/Delusions/epdatmoc.html
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PoisonCrazy
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 635
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: happy tree man]
#16391570 - 06/16/12 07:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
happy tree man said: But see, my generation (I'm 18) seems to be so completely for legalization of everything. Maybe 10% of people I know are pro-criminalization, and I know a pretty diverse group.
If cannabis is actually legalized, our government isn't quite as bad as we think it is. If it's not as bad as we think it is, I'd say there's a strong possibility that they will one day realize that all these psychedelics don't harm the user and in no way whatsoever harm society
I HOPE I am wrong, but don't think I am. What happens is people get more anti-drug as they get older. Not always, but people are more open to experimentation at a young age, most of them then quit using. They rationalize away their own use, and say they didn't do it much, or they got lucky, but drugs really are harmful. You may be right that your generation is more pro-legalization, but that might also change as they get older (people also tend to become more conservative in general as they get older).
Psychedelics and other drugs do harm society: that tiny sliver of society called the employers, and the profiteers of the war on drugs. Once you give people the chance of happiness in a pill, they aren't quite as concerned about scurrying in the rat race to get a new atomic toaster, hand-cranked cell phone or glow in the dark toilet seats. They just aren't as interested.
And the drug war profiteers know they make money on all this. The private prison builders know the war on drugs is the source of much of their profit. The drug testing companies rake in cash. Pharmaceutical companies know many of these drugs would replace their products AND legalization would drive down the price for many currently prescription drugs. Alcohol manufacturers and cigarette manufacturers stand to lose lots of money from legalization.
If you look up who donated money for the 'this is your brain on drugs' ad, you'll see pharmaceuticals, cigarette advertisers, and alcohol producers.
If you look at who the private prison industry gives money to, shockingly, it is tough-on-crime politicians.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: happy tree man]
#16478485 - 07/04/12 01:22 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
happy tree man said: Oregon, Arizona, Colorado, and Nevada (I believe that is the list) allow you to use mescaline regardless of race if it is spiritual.
I didnt know that. Thats great, and very fair! Thx for the info.
(after looking supposedly New Mexico is on that list as well)
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Ruca32


Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 183
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Re: The Law and spiritual use of drugs. [Re: PoisonCrazy]
#18466963 - 06/24/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey, I live in Beaverton, Or and I was arrested a while back for felony possession of heroin. I was taken to the station and put into a cell for about 25 minutes. The whole time, the cops were really mean to me -as one would imagine police would treat an accused felon in custody-. As I was sitting in the small cell, an officer came in and told the other officers watching me to leave, or in his words "Get out of here" in a demanding way. He started talking to me like a person strangely, and over all, he was really nice. He unlocked the cell and asked if I smoked and gave me a cigarette. We then talked for like ten minutes until he told me I was free to go. I didn't dare question why or how, but he said he'd have the other officer come in soon with my release forms and he left. A couple minutes later the lady officer came in rather disgruntled. She asked if I wanted a recipt for my drugs and I took a second to reply finally saying no. As I was escorted out, I stopped at the desk to collect my things and in the sealed plastic bag was $70! I was arrested with $20 in my wallet, and the $50 of heroin, (They had asked earlier how much I paid). I couldn't believe that the local pd bought my heroin off of me! I was just wondering what the deal with this was?
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