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Mufungo
Coming at ya
Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: Insecurities make me hate myself. Why is it so hard to reprogram them?
The only thing possibly making you hate yourself, is you, through the way you're interpreting your actions, your experiences, your past, your current situation. It's possible that you don't even know yourself enough to be able to hate "it" what every "yourself" is.
So get more specific. Do you hate the things that you have done, or hate the way you have responded to the world/people/yourself, or hate the situations you have put yourself in, or hate the thoughts that you focus on, or hate the feelings that you focus in on, or hate the choices you have made, or hate the things you chose not to do? The sum of those things you hate, still doesn't equate to hating yourself - unless you're into overgeneralising. But once you have some idea of what you're actually hating, then you have more chance of doing something about changing it rather than wallowing in feelings of "self-hate" and insecurity.
What is it you want to feel more secure about or in what situation do you want to feel more secure?
Not questions I expect an answer to here. But rather these are questions that might show how the way we use language to interpret our experience of life, directs our attention, either further deeper into the problem with no glimmer of hope, or possibly out towards solutions. If ya get stuck, it's most likely ya just thinking about yourself and your situation in a wrong way. Doubting what you've thought can be useful. Get insecure about what you thought you were insecure about. Think differently. ...not too easy for a lot of people. Poor sheeple.
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dustinthewind13
Fool
Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: Insecurities [Re: Mufungo]
#15286200 - 10/27/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok. That is a lot of questions. Going to have to take my time crafting this one.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Icelander said:
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deCypher said:
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Icelander said: all insecurities stem from there, and not all death anxiety has survival value.
You're saying all insecurities stem from death anxiety?
Yup ultimately . Immortals don't have self esteem problems imo. Nothing can hurt them. Of course you might have to trace a convoluted trail. I've done so in myself.
I don't know if I buy this. Take an average human and make them immortal: they will still feel insecure about being ugly, not having a long enough penis, or being poor. There are many anxieties afloat in the human psyche; I don't believe they all can be reduced to death anxiety. Besides the survival instinct there is also the reproductive instinct (which IMO can be just as strong).
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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dustinthewind13
Fool
Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: Insecurities [Re: deCypher]
#15286916 - 10/27/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
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deCypher said:
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Icelander said: all insecurities stem from there, and not all death anxiety has survival value.
You're saying all insecurities stem from death anxiety?
Yup ultimately . Immortals don't have self esteem problems imo. Nothing can hurt them. Of course you might have to trace a convoluted trail. I've done so in myself.
I don't know if I buy this. Take an average human and make them immortal: they will still feel insecure about being ugly, not having a long enough penis, or being poor. There are many anxieties afloat in the human psyche; I don't believe they all can be reduced to death anxiety. Besides the survival instinct there is also the reproductive instinct (which IMO can be just as strong).
I think he's saying death anxiety started it all.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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And I'm saying I don't believe that the fear of not reproducing (among others) results from our fear of death.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Icelander said: I just traced motivations back to their source. I always came back to my fear of death. Take things like shame. I think shame is a way of controlling humans by giving them the feeling of separateness. In early history as now the worse punishment is banishment from the tribe or society. This was a virtual death sentence. When we feel shame we feel separated from the rest. An emotional banishment that makes us unconsciously (usually) aware of our fragility. Without death anxiety at the root we would not feel shame imo. We would not feel fearful about separateness.
the true problem imo is that we long to be both separate and indivisible. we want to be both individual and a part of the dominant hegemony, to have a rich inner world while still maintaining our connection to the wider universe. the dual nature of being human means we can never truly solve our problems, only subdue them for the time being. imo your quite correct in your assessment of the emotional trauma of shame and separation but lets not forget that some people such as yogi's in hindu culture or the hermit in our own actively seek isolation often as a means to attain some inner quality. these people represent the opposing side of the spectrum to those who are far to socialized to allow themselves this quest. the Buddhists may be right on this one: that the middle ground is best however, this middle ground must change from person to person.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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dustinthewind13
Fool
Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: Insecurities [Re: deCypher]
#15287008 - 10/27/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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deCypher said: And I'm saying I don't believe that the fear of not reproducing (among others) results from our fear of death.
Not sure what you mean here.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
Edited by dustinthewind13 (10/27/11 04:18 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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IOW, death anxiety is not responsible for other insecurities we possess.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Insecurities [Re: deCypher]
#15287028 - 10/27/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know if I buy this.
I'm not selling it. Believe what thou wilt is the whole of the trip.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dustinthewind13
Fool
Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: Insecurities [Re: deCypher]
#15287035 - 10/27/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't think anyone is saying it's responsible for death anxiety.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Insecurities [Re: deCypher] 1
#15287044 - 10/27/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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deCypher said: IOW, death anxiety is not responsible for other insecurities we possess.
I agree. Death is what allows the evolution of species to progress, so in that sense death is responsible for all of our insecurities, but I do not think there is enough evidence or a compelling enough argument to suggest that our anxiety of death is what causes all other anxieties. I just think that it is one of the more major anxieties, and varies in strength from person to person.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Insecurities [Re: 4896744]
#15287053 - 10/27/11 04:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yep.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Insecurities [Re: 4896744]
#15287212 - 10/27/11 05:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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iThink said:
Quote:
deCypher said: IOW, death anxiety is not responsible for other insecurities we possess.
I agree. Death is what allows the evolution of species to progress, so in that sense death is responsible for all of our insecurities, but I do not think there is enough evidence or a compelling enough argument to suggest that our anxiety of death is what causes all other anxieties. I just think that it is one of the more major anxieties, and varies in strength from person to person.
i think death anxiety goes a long way towards explaining human behavior and that it is the core of anxiety. for example people wonder why an ancient society went through so much trouble to build a monument to their god or pharaoh or whatever. the truth imo is that everyone in this society (not only the leader) believed either consciously or subconsciously that they would live beyond their death either literally in the afterlife or symbolically through the furthering of a their culture.
below is a link to a brillant lecture by the psychologist sheldon solomon who has in resent years championed terror management theory which is basically a collection of experiments based on the literary works of ernest becker showing considerable evidence for the existence and pervasiveness of existential anxiety. i know i'm trying to sell this to you but i believe that this is very important work which should be recognized. this is such a wonderful and energetic lecture, please watch it in it's entirety and post your opinions. enjoy.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Quote:
i think death anxiety goes a long way towards explaining human behavior and that it is the core of anxiety. for example people wonder why an ancient society went through so much trouble to build a monument to their god or pharaoh or whatever. the truth imo is that everyone in this society (not only the leader) believed either consciously or subconsciously that they would live beyond their death either literally in the afterlife or symbolically through the furthering of a their culture.
below is a link to a brillant lecture by the psychologist sheldon solomon who has in resent years championed terror management theory which is basically a collection of experiments based on the literary works of ernest becker showing considerable evidence for the existence and pervasiveness of existential anxiety. i know i'm trying to sell this to you but i believe that this is very important work which should be recognized. this is such a wonderful and energetic lecture, please watch it in it's entirety and post your opinions. enjoy.
I think ancient and even modern cultures going through great lengths to create a sense of life after death is good evidence for death anxiety being a major anxiety. I don't see how this suggests all anxieties stem from the fear of death. I would think that if I were to know I would be immortal I would still have a fear of being alone. I crave social interaction, and I don't think this is a result of my brain trying to cope with my fear of death. I don't think there is enough evidence to suggest that my brain has created what seems to be a lack of companionship anxiety in an effort to help ease my death anxiety. To be honest I think psychological theories are way too crude to be able to accurately describe what is going on. I think conclusions can be drawn once we reach the point of understanding how the brain works through more physical descriptions.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Insecurities [Re: 4896744]
#15287632 - 10/27/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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i guess my argument for death anxiety being at the core of all anxieties is it's relation to the absurdity of embodiment. for example evolution could have caused our noses to be placed somewhere other than on the face. this absurdity causes discomfort which needs to be repressed using culture. this form of embodied absurdity is made even more clear while on mushrooms. how many times have you been tripping and caught sight of yourself in the mirror and thought "what a strange creature"? when i first realized i would die it threw my whole world view out of balance. i thought that i could not possibly be important if i was only put here to be taken away.
you may be right in separating anxiety but i can't see how we can make any judgement on human psychological needs without first taking into account the absurdity that we exist in.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Great lecture. Three more to go, which will have to wait until morning.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dustinthewind13
Fool
Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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The only thing possibly making you hate yourself, is you, through the way you're interpreting your actions, your experiences, your past, your current situation.
It's also me who is enjoying it at other times.
So get more specific. Do you hate the things that you have done, or hate the way you have responded to the world/people/yourself, or hate the situations you have put yourself in, or hate the thoughts that you focus on, or hate the feelings that you focus in on, or hate the choices you have made, or hate the things you chose not to do? The sum of those things you hate, still doesn't equate to hating yourself - unless you're into overgeneralising. But once you have some idea of what you're actually hating, then you have more chance of doing something about changing it rather than wallowing in feelings of "self-hate" and insecurity.
I'm still not sure how to respond to the questions without going completely off topic.
What is it you want to feel more secure about or in what situation do you want to feel more secure?
I feel insecure in the things I want to change, which is a lot of things.
But rather these are questions that might show how the way we use language to interpret our experience of life, directs our attention, either further deeper into the problem with no glimmer of hope, or possibly out towards solutions. If ya get stuck, it's most likely ya just thinking about yourself and your situation in a wrong way. Doubting what you've thought can be useful. Get insecure about what you thought you were insecure about.
Think differently. ...not too easy for a lot of people.
Because it's not simple to always know what the right way to think is. Otherwise I would get 100% on all of my exams.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Obviously you're not responding to me?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
blingbling said: i guess my argument for death anxiety being at the core of all anxieties is it's relation to the absurdity of embodiment. for example evolution could have caused our noses to be placed somewhere other than on the face. this absurdity causes discomfort which needs to be repressed using culture. this form of embodied absurdity is made even more clear while on mushrooms. how many times have you been tripping and caught sight of yourself in the mirror and thought "what a strange creature"? when i first realized i would die it threw my whole world view out of balance. i thought that i could not possibly be important if i was only put here to be taken away.
you may be right in separating anxiety but i can't see how we can make any judgment on human psychological needs without first taking into account the absurdity that we exist in.
At least for myself I've traced my insecurities to my own mortality. This is often an unconscious process that I've made conscious to some degree. My immortality project is centered around ideas of perfection. To be imperfect is to have to acknowledge and face being mortal. On some level the ego structure, which is what is threatened by mortality must make it's case to itself that it is not mortal. The only way to do this is to be and act perfectly. Any imperfection causes anxiety due to it reminding us, often unconsciously, of the futility of our immortality project. Thus, imo, all insecurities find their foundation in death anxiety.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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when you say "My immortality project is centered around ideas of perfection" what do you mean by perfection? physical perfection? philosophical perfection? or are you simply talking about acting with a perfect manner? this statement has made me question whether i have an immortality project and what that might be. i certainly have a causa sui project but that is imo somewhat different.
if you like the lecture check out terror management theory and the ernest becker foundation, they have some great lectures on their website.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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